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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #26  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:16 PM
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Making the same choice and going"IS" Difference is going brand new on both and not interested in paying a guzzle tax coupled with higher insurance and frequenting the pump besides next generation M will be turbo so if that's the issue..Remember the M3 comes out of the gate with NRF's..Me like.Also new means warranty & used M's do not(CPO included) Good luck and can't lose.
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Stock, M3 blows away 335is.

335 & 328 suspension is seriously lacking - there's where most of your mods will go. You'll feel a pronounced diff, M3 vs 335is, simply moving through dealer's parking lot.

335 & 328 were purposely designed to be inferior to M3, yet as it is the same car at its core, can be modded to M3 performance and then some w/part replacement. You want that.

.
I don't agree what about over boost? What about a 5k investment in parts and you can see the M in the rear view mirror! And who ended up paying less?

Last edited by vst335is; 11-30-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
The 335is feels more nimble and lighter to me when driving curvy roads and going through tight corners, plus the power band is tight there for recovery through the turns. The M3 convertible was heavier in the front end and felt like it was plowing in tight corners.

The M3 handles curves noticeably better than the 335is. Minimal body roll (compared to my 911 that has virtually none) and you always feel in control. I sometimes feel like the 335is is going to give away through curves.

Tell ya what - after much wrenchin' on my suspension, I got neutral handling with no limit found yet. Not tracked!

Surprised the E93 M3 plowed - xtra weight's rearward. Maybe something goin' on there.

Stock 335i[s] suspension grew intolerable for this li'l boy. Handles now; runs real fast. With 2.5° front camber, a supple performer that simply ran away from others on back roads.

Still. 911 would seem to have it beat. Or is it just me?

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  #29  
Old 11-30-2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vst335is View Post
I don't agree what about over boost? What about a 5k investment in parts and you can see the M in the rear view mirror! And who ended up paying less?
IMHO, I'll dust any stock 335is, badly.

M's pre-config'd for what I like, in fact except coilovers my suspension is M.

Over-boost well done - BMW did the R&D to make it right!
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  #30  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vst335is View Post
I don't agree what about over boost? What about a 5k investment in parts and you can see the M in the rear view mirror! And who ended up paying less?
Let's get the juvenile "what if's" and "what about's" out of the way. No M3 driver cares. The bottom line is that the 335 CAN NOT DELIVER THE M EXPERIENCE.

As a bmw enthusiast we can not pinpoint one virtue that makes the BMW superior to it's rivals. Rather it's the entire experience that makes the BMW the winner. I love my 335i for what it is, but it will never be an M car.

The M3 satisfies all senses:

Sight: the M3 is sexy; its sleek. The power dome, flared wheel arches, and fender gills mean business.
Sound: the heirarchy of engine notes: V6 (or I or whatever) Touch: the feel of the silky steering wheel and the effortless turn in.
Smell: fine leather hides and burning PSS
Taste: the taste of victory

Short and sweet; buy the M. The 335is is in nice, but at the end of the day the valet will move it to the "main lot" so that the M3 may sit our front.
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Last edited by Db750; 11-30-2012 at 09:07 PM.
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  #31  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Db750 View Post
Let's get the juvenile "what if's" and "what about's" out of the way. No M3 driver cares. The bottom line is that the 335 CAN NOT DELIVER THE M EXPERIENCE.

As a bmw enthusiast we can not pinpoint one virtue that makes the BMW superior to it's rivals. Rather it's the entire experience that makes the BMW the winner. I love my 335i for what it is, but it will never be an M car.

The M3 satisfies all senses:

Sight: the M3 is sexy; its sleek. The power dome, flared wheel arches, and fender gills mean business.
Sound: the heirarchy of engine notes: V (or I or whatever),mekdkd 6 Touch: the feel of the silky steering wheel and the effortless turn in.
Smell: fine leather hides and burning PSS
Taste: the taste of victory

Short and sweet; buy the M. The 335is is in nice, but at the end of the day the valet will move it to the "main lot" so that the M3 may sit our front.
Had an E46 M3 though I loved it can't really say I miss it and yes the E92 M3 is a superior auto than the "IS" but the M is not for everyone dollars aside... This is why BMW offers choice.Let's try not to refer to the "is" as such an inferior machine shall we?? 2 very different auto's that's all.
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  #32  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Db750 View Post
Let's get the juvenile "what if's" and "what about's" out of the way. No M3 driver cares. The bottom line is that the 335 CAN NOT DELIVER THE M EXPERIENCE.

As a bmw enthusiast we can not pinpoint one virtue that makes the BMW superior to it's rivals. Rather it's the entire experience that makes the BMW the winner. I love my 335i for what it is, but it will never be an M car.

The M3 satisfies all senses:

Sight: the M3 is sexy; its sleek. The power dome, flared wheel arches, and fender gills mean business.
Sound: the heirarchy of engine notes: V6 (or I or whatever) Touch: the feel of the silky steering wheel and the effortless turn in.
Smell: fine leather hides and burning PSS
Taste: the taste of victory

Short and sweet; buy the M. The 335is is in nice, but at the end of the day the valet will move it to the "main lot" so that the M3 may sit our front.
On the 335IS, everything on it says "M" (wheel, 6-speed shifter, wheels, door sills, suspension, etc). You can add a performance package and get the M experience with less money. I have seen a lot of people go this route.

I like the M3, but there are better options...
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  #33  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by vst335is View Post
On the 335IS, everything on it says "M" (wheel, 6-speed shifter, wheels, door sills, suspension, etc). You can add a performance package and get the M experience with less money. I have seen a lot of people go this route.

I like the M3, but there are better options...

Can't have nowhere near w/o major suspension surgery; replace all parts 'cept subframes & knuckles/carriers and you'll have about a M, manual adj. Oh, and add LSD w/PSS's.

Gimongous diff.

Sorry!
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  #34  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
IMHO, I'll dust any stock 335is, badly.

M's pre-config'd for what I like, in fact except coilovers my suspension is M.

Over-boost well done - BMW did the R&D to make it right!
BMW must have changed their suspension or tuned it differently on my 2011 than on the previous years of the 335i? I'm not sure when they did this, but I have no complaints about a rough ride like Captain Audio and others experienced on earlier cars. This modification may have produced a bit of the uncertain feeling I get when I push the car around decent bends in the road. But, it's not bad handling by any means. The suspension is what I'll call more pliable and better able to handle most road conditions.
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Db750 View Post
Let's get the juvenile "what if's" and "what about's" out of the way. No M3 driver cares. The bottom line is that the 335 CAN NOT DELIVER THE M EXPERIENCE.
Taste: the taste of victory

Short and sweet; buy the M. The 335is is in nice, but at the end of the day the valet will move it to the "main lot" so that the M3 may sit our front.
The 335is delivers the 335is experience and it's a fun experience in it's own right. Trying to express a feeling a car gives you is difficult because of the many small things that make up the whole. The car handles great, has all of the usable power you need when you get on it, and it sounds fantastic. There are also fewer of them on the road than any other 3 Series and quite possibly any other modern BMW series.
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
BMW must have changed their suspension or tuned it differently on my 2011 than on the previous years of the 335i? I'm not sure when they did this, but I have no complaints about a rough ride like Captain Audio and others experienced on earlier cars. This modification may have produced a bit of the uncertain feeling I get when I push the car around decent bends in the road. But, it's not bad handling by any means. The suspension is what I'll call more pliable and better able to handle most road conditions.

Looks like dampers were changed. REALOEM notes Bilstein as strut supplier for N54 equipped 335i; Sachs for N55.

Guessing Koni had made an embarrassing impression.

BMW is good about refinement - they move on issues with the velocity o'turbocharged snails, eventually coming to a conclusion.
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Looks like dampers were changed. REALOEM notes Bilstein as strut supplier for N54 equipped 335i; Sachs for N55.

Guessing Koni had made an embarrassing impression.

BMW is good about refinement - they move on issues with the velocity o'turbocharged snails, eventually coming to a conclusion.
I think BMW did a good job on the suspension on my car, particularly when you consider I have the 19" wheels mated with ultra low profile run flat tires that look like rubber bands. I drove it down from PA to SE FL on I-95 South this summer and it was great on the highway. I didn't have any bump steer and I wasn't feeling beat up or exhausted like I did when I drove my ZO6 back up on my return trip.

The fact that the 335i suspension is able to drive well on the highway and also perform extremely well on the back roads is quite a feat, IMO.

It may not be as good as what is on the M3, but the M3 suspension should be better.
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  #38  
Old 12-01-2012, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
IMHO, I'll dust any stock 335is, badly.

M's pre-config'd for what I like, in fact except coilovers my suspension is M.

Over-boost well done - BMW did the R&D to make it right!
You'd have me in a straight line (and I'd humbly admit defeat at the hands of the all mighty forced induction gods), but a square setup on a KW V3 I think sets par for the course on the twisties.
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  #39  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:27 AM
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Out of curiosity, I went to BMW USA web site to look for a quick summary of the 335is, but didn't find a good quick overview of what makes an 'is' (and I could very well have missed it).

What does an is give you over a regular 335?

Personally, if you don't need an M car, the 335 (in whatever form) probably makes a better daily car...the mpg on an M makes for frequent fuel stops. I mean, not complaining about the cost, which is part and parcel of owning a V8, but sometimes you do wish for a larger fuel tank.

PS great thread, have learned a lot. Thanks especially to beden1 and calwaterboy, great posts.
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  #40  
Old 12-01-2012, 05:55 AM
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You'd have me in a straight line (and I'd humbly admit defeat at the hands of the all mighty forced induction gods), but a square setup on a KW V3 I think sets par for the course on the twisties.

Grrrrrrrr....my Japanese Yellow Dogs gonna bark....

Find the ultra wide range of camber w/Ground Control's Street/School is, well, educational. By playing with settings, found behavior I didn't know about or expect.

'Course, if we play, we pay. Tires might not last long!
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  #41  
Old 12-01-2012, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Out of curiosity, I went to BMW USA web site to look for a quick summary of the 335is, but didn't find a good quick overview of what makes an 'is' (and I could very well have missed it).

What does an is give you over a regular 335?

Personally, if you don't need an M car, the 335 (in whatever form) probably makes a better daily car...the mpg on an M makes for frequent fuel stops. I mean, not complaining about the cost, which is part and parcel of owning a V8, but sometimes you do wish for a larger fuel tank.

You'll pay the premium for:
  • DCT - excellent & available only in M3 & 335is.
  • Performance Exhaust - some claim unique config for 335is
  • Diff engine map + overboost
  • Add'l water cooling
  • N54 engine w/some enhancements for overboost

The major bennies. However....335is suspension same as 335i.
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  #42  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:31 AM
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Hi Guys and Girls. This is my first post on this site. I'm an active member of the Porsche forum called Rennlist. I'm in the process of selling my 1986 Porsche 944 Turbo that I have spent a ton building a new motor for. Dyno'd at over 400 rwhp. Anyhow, I love the car but the platform is almost 30 years old and I want something newer.

I had an 07 335i sedan when they first came out and aside from the HPFP problem, it was a great car.

I'm looking at either an 11 or 12 335is or an 08 or 09 M3. They are similar in price. I'd get the DCT because it'll be my daily driver and a traditional manual in metro Atlanta traffic isn't a good choice.

I know a ton about both cars, driven both cars, love both cars. I know there is more potential in the 335is for modifications but the M3 is just a sick car.

I'd like peoples thoughts on what they would do.

Thanks,
Chris
Adding more power to the DCT 335iS is easier and cheaper than the M3 DCT. You can always work on the 335iS suspension in making it better than the M3 stock or equivalent

As a DD the DCT 335iS would be more fun to drive because of the low end torque, and cheaper on gas.

Nothing is better than your own building something to your own liking which will have it own unique character cause you semi-built it
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:35 AM
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I don't see how there's still a decision to be made if you've driven an M3 already.
Have you driven a DCT 335iS ?
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:39 AM
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Personally I'd go with the M. the 335 is a beautiful car as well...but it doesn't have an M3 badge to make you tingle every time you drive it!
What would suck is an M3 getting raped by a 335. By the way we are not talking about a 335i AT or MT we are talking about a DCT N54 335iS, with the same DCT as the M3 and chasis.
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:51 AM
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What would suck is an M3 getting raped by a 335. By the way we are not talking about a 335i AT or MT we are talking about a DCT N54 335iS, with the same DCT as the M3 and chasis.

Teensy mod for Methanol; 335i slays all.
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  #46  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:59 AM
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The 2013 335is has the N55 motor in them, according to the BMW USA build your own site. Why the change from the N54?
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  #47  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:09 AM
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The 2013 335is has the N55 motor in them, according to the BMW USA build your own site. Why the change from the N54?
That is incorrect, all 335iS 2011-2013 have the N54. I promiss you that. Dont get caught up in their marketing word play

Pay attention to the discription

N54 335iS
3.0-liter dual overhead cam (DOHC), 24-valve inline turbocharged 320-horsepower 6-cylinder engine with TwinPower Turbo technology and Double-VANOS steplessly variable valve timing [Source]

N55 335i
3.0-liter dual overhead cam (DOHC), 24-valve inline turbocharged 300-horsepower 6-cylinder engine with TwinPower Turbo technology, Valvetronic, and Double-VANOS steplessly variable valve timing [Source]


As you can see the N55 comes with Valvetronics and the N54 does not

The marketing term TwinPower is used for the TwinTurbo charged N54 and the TwinScroll single turbo N55
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  #48  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Db750 View Post
Let's get the juvenile "what if's" and "what about's" out of the way. No M3 driver cares. The bottom line is that the 335 CAN NOT DELIVER THE M EXPERIENCE.

As a bmw enthusiast we can not pinpoint one virtue that makes the BMW superior to it's rivals. Rather it's the entire experience that makes the BMW the winner. I love my 335i for what it is, but it will never be an M car.

The M3 satisfies all senses:

Sight: the M3 is sexy; its sleek. The power dome, flared wheel arches, and fender gills mean business.
Sound: the heirarchy of engine notes: V6 (or I or whatever) Touch: the feel of the silky steering wheel and the effortless turn in.
Smell: fine leather hides and burning PSS
Taste: the taste of victory

Short and sweet; buy the M. The 335is is in nice, but at the end of the day the valet will move it to the "main lot" so that the M3 may sit our front.
Interesting list. I like my sleeper look a lot better then flares & side vents like a Ford Taurus. My exterior mods are all very subtle, smoked reflectors & side marker lights that complement the gray paint. Engine noise is a nice feature & the IS muffler system does a nice job. Smell if that's important to you I guess its nice but did not notice it during my M3 test drive weekend. Moving to the Taste of Victory I love my 6-0 against a collection of M3's.

Interesting thing is I have never challenged an M3 but they seem to see the IS logos & just have to put down the upstart. One V8 M3 driver after a few 40 to 110 runs in Mexico refused to believe that I did not have major engine modifications till he bought my some coffee, checked out the car & had a 100% stock down to the air cleaner engine compartment looking back at him. No CAI, no Meth, no Downpipes no nothing visable. The JB4 sits inside the ECU coffen with only the lap top connection showing.

BuraQs IS is about 1/2 second quicker then mine & with a good run should he get into the high 11 second range. As far as I know he has some basic mods but nothing as potent as a meth injection system. Taken into context at Drag Time he would be about number 24 on the M3 list right up with the $10K supercharger M3's & my JB4 + FMIC car would be number 44 out of 117 M3's listed

At the end of the day the thoughts of a parking valet are of no consequence to me & feel bad for someone who needs the validation of a car parker.
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  #49  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:00 AM
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Mein Auto: 2011 328xi
M3.

After experiencing what it's capable of @ LRP, sitting next to the one and only Simon Kirkby (thanks to CaptainAudio), coupled with the nice growl of the naturally-aspirated V8, I wouldn't even think twice about it. Some say it's too much of a street car and not enough race car, but if you'll undertake a fiscally-irresponsible purchase, you might as well go all the way. The looks alone are worth it. Just promise us that you'll drive it like it's meant to be driven, no babying it and whining over piling the miles!
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  #50  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:59 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Mein Auto: 335i E93 - 750Lix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
M3.

After experiencing what it's capable of @ LRP, sitting next to the one and only Simon Kirkby (thanks to CaptainAudio), coupled with the nice growl of the naturally-aspirated V8, I wouldn't even think twice about it. Some say it's too much of a street car and not enough race car, but if you'll undertake a fiscally-irresponsible purchase, you might as well go all the way. The looks alone are worth it. Just promise us that you'll drive it like it's meant to be driven, no babying it and whining over piling the miles!
Did you ask Simon what his street car is?

CA
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