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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #401  
Old 12-01-2012, 06:44 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Owned him. lol.
Yeah...OK
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  #402  
Old 12-01-2012, 06:52 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
As Chris90 indicated earlier, after several reviews complained about the ATS 2.0T manual being notchy, and not able to reach 60 in second gear, GM stopped delivery of all the 2.0T for fixes. Based on the initial user review after the fixes, it appears the fixes were for real.

It will be interesting to see if MT will try to do another comparo, since it was MT reported the news that GM stopped all 2.0T shipment for the fix. Sounded to me GM is very serious about this.
Yeap. They are working on the manual to address all the issues.
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  #403  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:10 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by windsor027 View Post
Last statement I want to make here is the MT. This transmission can't be the same that I had in my 2007 328i. Its incredibly direct, light, so easy to use its almost like having a automatic. The only other MT transmission I have driven that compares to this one is the 2010 Boxster S and at the time I thought everyone should just copy their MT transmissions. Who know maybe BMW did.
He was clear about a few things. First they were all automatic, second, he was only interested in two things, which according to him are the two most asked about.

How user friendly was the infotainment system, and how did the car feel driving on the back roads.

The guy did make enough bad jokes or comments that one can easily question whether he was even serious about the conclusion.

I will definitely not rely on this comparo, rather consider it one sample point. There should be plenty of reviews to come. But I do agree with his conclusion on the road feel.

Last edited by dtc100; 12-01-2012 at 07:12 AM.
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  #404  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:41 AM
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Yeah...OK
Take it like a man and move on.
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  #405  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:49 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Here is another one, again very much agree with:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/au...anted=all&_r=0
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  #406  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:52 AM
Buildbright Buildbright is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
Look at the lap times, the SS is faster than a N54 335i Coupe, M Coupe and 135i. Look at the trap speed on every test (111mph vs 103mph LOL), not even close but thanks for playing. Oh here is the link for the 335 lap time since you highlighted it to be wrong :
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...i-coupe-page-6
and of course there was no F30 in 2010, I know that, I posted the E90 results since both cars are N55 and I could not find one for the F30 from that magazine.

Try again.
You can post rolling smiley faces all day long. It's not going to change you are wrong. Do you even know what a trap speed is? Have you ever seen anyone race for the best trap speed? No because you are racing for acceleration times. The higher trap speed just proves the Camaro has so much power it should be faster but it does not have the efficiency to put the power to good use.

Why do you post on this fourm? You don't have an F30 nor do you like them from your previous posts. Which is fine but don't sit around and troll the forums because a magazine told you one car is as fast and you have to make excuses to feel better about yourself.

I will not post a reply after this so! post all the smiley faces and mag articles you like I am going to go drive my F30.
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  #407  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:20 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Buildbright View Post
You can post rolling smiley faces all day long. It's not going to change you are wrong. Do you even know what a trap speed is? Have you ever seen anyone race for the best trap speed? No because you are racing for acceleration times. The higher trap speed just proves the Camaro has so much power it should be faster but it does not have the efficiency to put the power to good use.

Why do you post on this fourm? You don't have an F30 nor do you like them from your previous posts. Which is fine but don't sit around and troll the forums because a magazine told you one car is as fast and you have to make excuses to feel better about yourself.

I will not post a reply after this so! post all the smiley faces and mag articles you like I am going to go drive my F30.
You clearly have very limited knowledge when it comes this issue. Trap speed is a very good indicator of power the vehicle makes. Of course the SS will have more issues getting it to the ground, it makes a lot more power than the 335 but once it gains traction it is over for the 335. It is very simple and numbers don't like just look at the 0-130 times and so on, the two cars are not even in the same league power wise. Like I said I don't like the SS at all and would take the 335 over it any day, but it is not as fast the as Camaro SS. The SS is silly fast and relatively cheap track toy.
Also on the topic on forums, I can post where I want. If you don't like it don't read it, that is all. I am a loyal BMW fan and have been for years, however I am also a car fan and if there is a brand that offers a better performing vehicle for less, like the ATS, I will give it a shot.
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  #408  
Old 12-01-2012, 09:22 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Take it like a man and move on.
Sometimes you should take your own advice. Specifically when it comes to the ATS winning this particular comparison.
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  #409  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Buildbright View Post
You can post rolling smiley faces all day long. It's not going to change you are wrong. Do you even know what a trap speed is? Have you ever seen anyone race for the best trap speed? No because you are racing for acceleration times. The higher trap speed just proves the Camaro has so much power it should be faster but it does not have the efficiency to put the power to good use.

Why do you post on this fourm? You don't have an F30 nor do you like them from your previous posts. Which is fine but don't sit around and troll the forums because a magazine told you one car is as fast and you have to make excuses to feel better about yourself.

I will not post a reply after this so! post all the smiley faces and mag articles you like I am going to go drive my F30.
He can't accpet he is wrong. But we can all laugh at him
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  #410  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:10 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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Originally Posted by Buildbright View Post
The higher trap speed just proves the Camaro has so much power it should be faster but it does not have the efficiency to put the power to good use.
True, if by "efficiency" you include the skill of the driver, condition of the track (even which lane), the rubber on the car, etc. There are many relevant variables, many of which have nothing to do with a vehicle's engine or its fundamental design.

The roughly equal times, but significantly higher trap speed of the Camaro, indicate the Camaro is capable of faster times and is unarguably making better power.

A 100 MPH rolling start would be amusing.

The f-body is a great car, but a significantly different machine than an F30.
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  #411  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:18 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
True, if by "efficiency" you include the skill of the driver, condition of the track (even which lane), the rubber on the car, etc. There are many relevant variables, many of which have nothing to do with a vehicle's engine or its fundamental design.

The roughly equal times, but significantly higher trap speed of the Camaro, indicate the Camaro is capable of faster times and is unarguably making better power.

A 100 MPH rolling start would be amusing.

The f-body is a great car, but a significantly different machine than an F30.
Thank you!
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  #412  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:40 PM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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I thought the suspension on my 335i was great while I had the car in South Florida. After I had it shipped to NYC I hated the harsh ride so much I was ready to either set fire to it or push it into the East River. The way the car is set up now (Conti DWS, Koni FSDs) I am happy with the suspension. I would have to drive an F30 in NYC before I could really make a comparison. I'm in a Mercedes Rental for 2 months. We may go car shopping this week but I doubt we will purchase another Florida car.
I test drove an F30 with sport pkg back to back with the E90 335 I recently purchased. Drove on some harsh Philly roads. Ride was pretty similar, I thought. The F30 didn't have the adaptive suspension. I believe most of the noise going over bumps was coming from the RFTs.

I just put winter tires on my E90. They are technically still RFT, but much better than the stock Bridgestone RFTs that came on the car. The ride is already 50% better. In the spring, I'll probably opt for the soft Conti DWS. If I still need to soften it a bit, I'll try the Koni FSD route that I used on my old 2006 330.

IF I was to purchase the F30, I'm 99% sure I'd opt for the DHP with adjustable suspension. That, combined with some softer tires should result in a ride that's firm enough to have fun on good roads, but compliant on bad roads.
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  #413  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:47 PM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Just finished watching the video. How do they only test a car on one type of road to declare it the winner? That road looked like a dream to drive on and the tester said the Caddy was a bit harsh. Well, if that was harsh, I'd invite the tester to join CA in NYC for a little drive and then report back. These mags so often test cars on cool roads and tracks, which offers little in the way of real world buying advice for those of us who live in cities.
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  #414  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:32 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Here is the review article, as I speculated, they had more than one did this review, three of them agreed on the final verdict, even though each had different take.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
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  #415  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:53 AM
g37to335i g37to335i is offline
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The ATS did not make it to C&Ds 10 best. The G35 and CTS made it in their first year.

About the review, MT says the 3ers figure eight times showed its handling was inferior to the other 2. I checked and the G37s did the figure 8 in 25.9s. The S4 at 25.6s. The S4 is AWD. If anything, the 3er is as good as it gets iro handling in this segment. You are not going to find many reviewers concurring with MT on their rankings

Last edited by g37to335i; 12-04-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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  #416  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:05 PM
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Caymans are very well balanced and very neutral so your comment about feeling like it was on rails is very accurate unless you are driving the car at 10/10th. The limits on a Cayman are so high that driving at 10/10ths on the street is both irresponsible and suicidal.

It is possible to induce oversteer (hopefully MILD overteer ) in a mid engine car by trail braking. By "trailing" off the brakes as the car corners the car can be rotated. This technique is called tail brake rotation and requires practice in a controlled environment where the consequences of the inevitable spins that you will have while learning will not be catestrophic.



Trail Braking>>
The trail braking technique is an advanced braking technique that racing drivers use to go faster through corners. Instead of completing the braking sequence before the corner, you brake later and combine the last bit of braking with the turning-in part.>>
When turning into the corner while braking, the weight is still resting on the front tires. This increases front grip and decreases rear grip, so that you can induce a little more rear slip angle than front slip angle. (oversteer)>>
This braking technique has several advantages:>>
You can brake later.>>
Normally you’d already be going steady on the throttle, but since you are still on the brakes front to rear weight balance is easier to adjust.>>
Due to braking, the weight shifts forward so front grip increases, allowing you to turn harder into the corner.>>
Rather than relying on the steering you can brake your way into the corner. You rotate the back-end of the car (oversteer) so that you will have to steer less when going in, and coming out of the corner.>>
Trail braking requires very precise brake balance control and is definitely not a braking technique for the novice. Due to the high speed it’s really dangerous to practice. Mistakes will immediately be punished, usually with serious consequences.>>

CA
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Originally Posted by av98 View Post
Very easy, add water, over correct then you get snap oversteer.

Actually a fade brake or standard pop clutch action will loosen any rear end for any car.
I REALLY need to head to a track. REALLY BADLY.
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  #417  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:51 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by g37to335i View Post
The ATS did not make it to C&Ds 10 best. The G35 and CTS made it in their first year.

About the review, MT says the 3ers figure eight times showed its handling was inferior to the other 2. I checked and the G37s did the figure 8 in 25.9s. The S4 at 25.6s. The S4 is AWD. If anything, the 3er is as good as it gets iro handling in this segment. You are not going to find many reviewers concurring with MT on their rankings
I did a quick scan of the article, the complaint from the reviewers seemed to be, while the 335i sport added weight, BMW did not tune the suspension specifically for the added weight. They implied the suspension in the 328i was well tuned for its weight, and BMW just put the same suspension in the heavier 335i and called it a day.

The other part is the chassis in the ATS, it was more European than the European models.

Last edited by dtc100; 12-04-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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  #418  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I did a quick scan of the article, the complaint from the reviewers seemed to be, while the 335i sport added weight, BMW did not tune the suspension specifically for the added weight. They implied the suspension in the 328i was well tuned for its weight, and BMW just put the same suspension in the heavier 335i and called it a day.

The other part is the chassis in the ATS, it was more European than the European models.
the F30 328 is so much better than the E90 328 its not even funny or close.
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  #419  
Old 12-04-2012, 02:12 PM
g37to335i g37to335i is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
I did a quick scan of the article, the complaint from the reviewers seemed to be, while the 335i sport added weight, BMW did not tune the suspension specifically for the added weight. They implied the suspension in the 328i was well tuned for its weight, and BMW just put the same suspension in the heavier 335i and called it a day.

The other part is the chassis in the ATS, it was more European than the European models.
Agreed but the 335i only adds 150 pounds. It's not an extreme weight gain. It's still a light weight in its class at 3500 pounds. I think MT was starting to split hairs to eke a win for the ATS. The BMW wins on

0-60
1/4
Figure 8 (their handling test)
NVH
Transmission
Tech (per mt)

The ATS
Interior (highly subjective, if not questionable)
Handling because it feels like a Nissan 370z, aka G37, which I have.

I don't know but the more I look at this comparo the more stuff I find that don't add up.

Last edited by g37to335i; 12-04-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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  #420  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:41 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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the F30 328 is so much better than the E90 328 its not even funny or close.
Yeap, not even close

What Needs Work:
Doesn't handle, steer or stop as well as its predecessor; and tell us again why power seats and adjustable lumbar are optional.

Bottom Line:
The base 3 Series has never been quicker or more comfortable. It doesn't feel as much like a sport sedan as the old 328i, but unless you're truly hard-core, you probably won't care.

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/3-seri...and-video.html

Our grave concern here is that, with each new car it introduces, BMW seems to wrap more padding around the sensations and feel that make them great—while its competitors only zero in more tightly on those same attributes. (We’re convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against the F30.)

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mw-328i-page-3
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  #421  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:46 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by g37to335i View Post
Agreed but the 335i only adds 150 pounds. It's not an extreme weight gain. It's still a light weight in its class at 3500 pounds. I think MT was starting to split hairs to eke a win for the ATS. The BMW wins on

0-60
1/4
Figure 8 (their handling test)
NVH
Transmission
Tech (per mt)

The ATS
Interior (highly subjective, if not questionable)
Handling because it feels like a Nissan 370z, aka G37, which I have.

I don't know but the more I look at this comparo the more stuff I find that don't add up.
The 370z would be very different than the G37. The 370z reference was to point out that the ATS felt more like a sport car (such as the 370z), while the others felt like what they were supposed to be, sport sedans.

Basically the ATS chassis and the road feel on the twisties were very important for those guys, so much that they were willing to overlook all other elements of the cars.

Last edited by dtc100; 12-04-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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  #422  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:42 PM
g37to335i g37to335i is offline
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That's all I had. You are right about the Z being a sports car but the G has always been understood to be very close to its cousin in driving dynamics. However I doubt this is going to change a lot of minds of young guys shopping for the top end models. Like you said let's wait until the dust settles to pass judgement. It will be a long wait
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  #423  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:53 PM
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Chris90 Chris90 is offline
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Originally Posted by g37to335i View Post
That's all I had. You are right about the Z being a sports car but the G has always been understood to be very close to its cousin in driving dynamics. However I doubt this is going to change a lot of minds of young guys shopping for the top end models. Like you said let's wait until the dust settles to pass judgement. It will be a long wait
If the Z is a sports car, then the 1 series is a sports car, cause that's all the Z is, it's a G sedan with a shortened wheelbase and coupe body. I don't think you can make a sports car out of a family sedan platform. Nissan hasn't made a sports car in years.
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  #424  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:48 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by g37to335i View Post
That's all I had. You are right about the Z being a sports car but the G has always been understood to be very close to its cousin in driving dynamics. However I doubt this is going to change a lot of minds of young guys shopping for the top end models. Like you said let's wait until the dust settles to pass judgement. It will be a long wait
I don't think it will be a long wait, in the next few months the ATS sales numbers will be clear what the potential, or lack of it.

If the 370z is not a true sport car, then maybe this is why they compared ATS to it. No one would argue ATS is actually a sport car, but if it drives like a car that meant to be like a sport car, that would be good enough, and that is the most a sport sedan can achieve anyway.

Last edited by dtc100; 12-04-2012 at 07:23 PM.
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