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  #151  
Old 01-27-2012, 12:42 AM
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Lol Pot definitely wont ruin your chances of joining the Army, some branches, absolutely but the Army is not one of them.
The leader of the Khmer Rouge. or something.
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  #152  
Old 01-27-2012, 01:00 AM
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Lol Pot is a name that struck terror into many. Good riddance.
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  #153  
Old 01-27-2012, 03:04 AM
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Lol Pot is a name that struck terror into many. Good riddance.
Cool kids call it bud, dat fire-a or that fy yi yi eeewwwwee gooey.
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  #154  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:35 AM
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***UPDATE***


I just heard from my mom yesterday that my youngest brother is now getting discharged from the Army for drinking. Apparently he's been caught multiple times

I dont recall getting into it much in this thread, but before he left for the army his drinking had really gone up. He lost his best friend to drunk driving shortly after he graduated high school. Another nearly died after that.

So now he's going to be coming home, carrying a ton of emotional baggage, and my mom (and the rest of us) are worried that he's going to slip right back in with his old friends. The friends he left behind have done nothing but get worse in his time away. Of the 4-5 friends he hung out with regularly, 2 of them have now spent time in jail for drug possession and auto theft (one stole his step dad's car and totaled it after a 3 hour joy ride).


So now I'm trying to help my mom figure out what to do. She's ashamed and hurt by this, she loved the fact that he had apparently turned **** around and was serving our country

Is it too early for rehab? Should he see a therapist? Should I try to talk him into going to school again (more drinking/drugs/partying)?

Any advice is much appreciated.
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  #155  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:03 AM
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I was thinking rehab from the first paragraph of your post.

Rehab, therapist, sounds like good ideas. Don't be surprised if he's going to reject both ideas.
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  #156  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:04 AM
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See if the Marines or Navy will take him.
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  #157  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:05 AM
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Wow Ryan. I really have nothing helpful to add but hopefully you can steer him in the right direction. Rehab is expensive, and I think unless he WANTS to change it won't do anything besides annoy him and waste your money.

What's his demeanor like now that he's discharged? Is he embarrassed and wanting to get things back on track or just blowing it off and blaming others? Maybe go have a man to man rational talk about his life goals, let him talk it out, and tell him you'll support him in achieving those if he stays clean. Keep anger and hurt emotions and all confrontation out of it and just let him know you're there for him if he wants to do it right.

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You're a derbanana

Last edited by E36 Phantom; 12-04-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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  #158  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
I was thinking rehab from the first paragraph of your post.

Rehab, therapist, sounds like good ideas. Don't be surprised if he's going to reject both ideas.
Thats the thing; he's bullheaded, and he's an adult, we cant MAKE him do anything. I'm wondering how I can convince him its time for help.


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Originally Posted by ronrich View Post
See if the Marines or Navy will take him.
I'm thinking perhaps the armed forces aren't for him. My cousin turned into a drunk during/after his time in the Army. Lots of pressure, and it sounds like people pass the time by smoking, drinking, and shooting stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by E36 Phantom View Post
Wow Ryan. I really have nothing helpful to add but hopefully you can steer him in the right direction. Rehab is expensive, and I think unless he WANTS to change it won't do anything besides annoy him and waste your money.

What's his demeanor like now that he's discharged? Is he embarrassed and wanting to get things back on track or just blowing it off and blaming others? Maybe go have a man to man rational talk about his life goals, let him talk it out, and tell him you'll support him in achieving those if he stays clean. Keep anger and hurt emotions and all confrontation out of it and just let him know you're there for him if he wants to do it right.

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I haven't seen him yet, he's only told my mom so I'm guessing he's ashamed. If he takes responsibility for what he's doing, I hope it will be easier to talk to him. I'm thinking that myself and my younger brother will be able to talk to him and get things going in the right direction


If he's not always drunk, but instead he makes the stupid decision to drink when he knows its not allowed, is that still a case for rehab? Maybe all this is his cry for help? I dont know..
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  #159  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryan... View Post
I just heard from my mom yesterday that my youngest brother is now getting discharged from the Army for drinking. Apparently he's been caught multiple times
So sorry to hear this.
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Originally Posted by E36 Phantom View Post
Rehab is expensive, and I think unless he WANTS to change it won't do anything besides annoy him and waste your money.
I agree with this. You can't really force someone into rehab and have it be successful. There's always AA for drinking though and that's not expensive rehab, but he'd still need to be ready to accept it.

Yes, there is still drinking and partying in college, but being surrounded by other people relatively close to his age with goals and working toward making something of themselves can be a good thing. If he is basically being fired from the service for drinking, what are his chances of holding on to a civilian job at home while hanging out with his old friends with no direction? But even with college, he'd need to be motivated to go, and it's not going to cure his addiction.
Quote:
If he's not always drunk, but instead he makes the stupid decision to drink when he knows its not allowed, is that still a case for rehab? Maybe all this is his cry for help? I dont know..
If his drinking is to the point of causing him to be discharged from the service, I think it's more than a couple of stupid decisions. He needs help.

Last edited by 1Dreamer; 12-04-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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  #160  
Old 12-04-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan... View Post
I haven't seen him yet, he's only told my mom so I'm guessing he's ashamed. If he takes responsibility for what he's doing, I hope it will be easier to talk to him. I'm thinking that myself and my younger brother will be able to talk to him and get things going in the right direction

If he's not always drunk, but instead he makes the stupid decision to drink when he knows its not allowed, is that still a case for rehab? Maybe all this is his cry for help? I dont know..
I'm sure no matter what he's ashamed of getting discharged. The question is whether he sees it as some ridiculous rule and overbearing people, or recognizes that he has a problem and wants to change.
I'd start with a one on one chat and get a feel for things.

Also, I'd like to remind you that no matter how things shake out, follow this sage advice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Cane View Post
Dude. Whatever you do, do NOT BJ your brother.


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Quote:
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You're a derbanana

Last edited by E36 Phantom; 12-04-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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  #161  
Old 12-04-2012, 12:03 PM
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Ok, I'm gonna bring up AA with my mom and see what we can figure out in regards to that. I'm gonna try to call him and talk about it before he gets back home. I live 2 hours away from home and work 6 days a week, so I want a chance to talk to him before he talks to those idiots back home.

I'll probably take off work and make sure I'm home when he gets back, and maybe he and my other brother need to just go and hang out again, figure out whats wrong and if we can help. My younger brother (David) is going to school in Eau Claire, I also have a degree, so hopefully we can talk him into at least going and getting an Associates degree while he clears his life up.

Another question, how does one bounce back from a dishonorable discharge? Is that going to make finding employment more difficult? Or is it something that isn't really brought up unless you bring it up yourself?
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  #162  
Old 12-04-2012, 02:43 PM
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Is it a dishonorable discharge, or a lower form of discharge that isn't honorable? A true "dishonorable" discharge is viewed as equivalent to a felony conviction - for example, gun ownership is banned.
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  #163  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:32 PM
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It might not be dishonorable - I'm no-way claiming to know anything about this - but I googled this...


http://www.armytimes.com/community/a...awyer_092208w/

Quote:
Less-than-honorable discharge does not have to be permanent

By Mathew B. Tully - Special to the Times
Posted : Monday Sep 22, 2008 10:53:24 EDT

For nearly a decade, with the exception of when I've been deployed, my family has traveled to Naval Air Station Brunswick, Maine, as our official end-of-summer getaway. My wife and I, now joined by our toddler son, love going there because of the spacious accommodations that seem to always be available to space-A travelers like ourselves.

I've always found my trips to NAS Brunswick rewarding because I get to meet many of the people who read this column, and this year was no exception.

While drinking coffee one morning in the lobby of Building 512, I had the pleasure of speaking with a retired Navy chief petty officer whose son is facing an administrative discharge. The chief had questions about what that meant.

When you get discharged from the military, you are either administratively discharged or punitively discharged. The overwhelming majority of discharges are administrative and fall into one of three categories: honorable, general under honorable conditions, and other than honorable.

Clearly, an honorable discharge is the most preferable. It means that your period of service was an honorable one - though it may not have been perfect; even a service member with a court-martial conviction or an Article 15 on his record for a petty offense can still receive an honorable discharge.

A general discharge under honorable conditions is meant for those who generally performed honorably but had some problems. The most common reasons for a general discharge that I've seen are alcohol or drug abuse, excessive absences, Article 15 reasons and, occasionally, mental health problems.

The third type of administrative discharge, other than honorable, is equivalent to a bad-conduct discharge. It generally results in the loss of all veterans civilian employment preference and Veterans Affairs benefits.

A service member might receive type of discharge if he is convicted by a civilian court for a crime or engages in a pattern of misconduct involving many minor offenses. In my experience, those offenses generally include disrespecting or disobeying an order, or fraudulent enlistment - such as if you concealed a prior felony conviction.

Similarly, there are three types of punitive discharges: bad-conduct discharge, dishonorable discharge and dismissal (the officer version of a dishonorable discharge).

The most severe punitive discharge is a dishonorable discharge or dismissal. Generally, this occurs upon conviction of a serious crime such as rape, murder or robbery.

The other type of punitive discharge, a bad-conduct discharge, may be seen when somebody is convicted of a serious crime. But in my experience, it's more commonly given for court-martial incidents related to desertion, assaulting an officer or theft.

In addition to the loss of all military and veterans benefits, punitive discharges can seriously hurt your civilian job prospects.

But as I pointed out to my new friend in Maine this past week, the discharge you get when you leave service is not necessarily the discharge you will have for life. If you receive an "other than honorable" or general discharge - or any other type of discharge - and go on to become a stellar citizen, it's possible for you to get that discharge changed.

I generally advise clients to wait several years before trying to get a discharge upgraded and then to show compelling need by explaining how and why the discharge is having an adverse impact on their civilian life.

Upgrading your discharge involves correcting your military records, a subject that I talked about in some detail in a previous column.

The information in this column is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to constitute legal advice. Readers are encouraged to seek the advice of an attorney or other professional when an opinion is needed.
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  #164  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:25 PM
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He just sent me a text asking me how I was doing, and I asked him how he was doing, this was his response:

"Trouble. Trouble but its my ticket outta hell. I wont make xmas but I'll see you after."




Quote:
Originally Posted by cwsqbm View Post
Is it a dishonorable discharge, or a lower form of discharge that isn't honorable? A true "dishonorable" discharge is viewed as equivalent to a felony conviction - for example, gun ownership is banned.
I certainly hope it isn't, but I dont know that much yet, just what my mom told me yesterday.


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Originally Posted by wyb View Post
It might not be dishonorable - I'm no-way claiming to know anything about this - but I googled this...


http://www.armytimes.com/community/a...awyer_092208w/

Wow, that would be much better than dishonorable, I'm actually texting him right now so hopefully I can figure some more out.
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  #165  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:53 PM
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Ok, I'm gonna bring up AA
Just offer to go sit with him at AA meetings. Beyond that people do what they want... Good luck!
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  #166  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:56 PM
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You and mom should join al-anon... while you cannot MAKE him do anything, the rest of the family MUST.

Best

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  #167  
Old 12-04-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wag-zhp View Post
Call the police. A night in jail might help wake him up.
...It could also get him a criminal record and ruin his life. Marijuana has been voted legal in 2 states now, and probably will become legalized in other states as more people vote for it. Honestly, ruining your kid brother's life over a joint? Would you react the same way if he was having a beer downstairs?

Let's not overreact, millions of people have done what he's doing and turned out just fine. I'd say just have a chat with him, explain you don't want him using it and why (list health reasons, that is puts your household in a legally precarious position, etc.) and tell him you don't want him doing it anymore, least of all in your home.
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  #168  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:15 PM
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...It could also get him a criminal record and ruin his life. Marijuana has been voted legal in 2 states now, and probably will become legalized in other states as more people vote for it. Honestly, ruining your kid brother's life over a joint? Would you react the same way if he was having a beer downstairs?

Let's not overreact, millions of people have done what he's doing and turned out just fine. I'd say just have a chat with him, explain you don't want him using it and why (list health reasons, that is puts your household in a legally precarious position, etc.) and tell him you don't want him doing it anymore, least of all in your home.
skip ahead there skippy...
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  #169  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rclark View Post
...It could also get him a criminal record and ruin his life. Marijuana has been voted legal in 2 states now, and probably will become legalized in other states as more people vote for it. Honestly, ruining your kid brother's life over a joint? Would you react the same way if he was having a beer downstairs?

Let's not overreact, millions of people have done what he's doing and turned out just fine. I'd say just have a chat with him, explain you don't want him using it and why (list health reasons, that is puts your household in a legally precarious position, etc.) and tell him you don't want him doing it anymore, least of all in your home.
I respectfully disagree.

He has lost a job because of substance abuse. The guy is in trouble and needs professional help.

If he is going to change his life around, he needs to seek help and follow their direction.

In my experience with dealing with employees who have had substance abuse problems, they must hit bottom before they bounce up. It is heart wrenching to not enable your child or brother, and it is difficult to know what to do in the moment, so all three of you need some counseling to find out what to do.

If your brother won't go, you and your mother should get some counseling so you can get professional advice.

Good luck.
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  #170  
Old 12-04-2012, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
I respectfully disagree.

He has lost a job because of substance abuse. The guy is in trouble and needs professional help.

If he is going to change his life around, he needs to seek help and follow their direction.

In my experience with dealing with employees who have had substance abuse problems, they must hit bottom before they bounce up. It is heart wrenching to not enable your child or brother, and it is difficult to know what to do in the moment, so all three of you need some counseling to find out what to do.

If your brother won't go, you and your mother should get some counseling so you can get professional advice.

Good luck.
I think there's some miscommunication here. rclark didn't look at the dates and is responding to a very old post (thus, wyb's post) where Ryan is ticked his brother was smoking pot in the house. This was before his brother ever went into the service and is now at the point where he's being discharged for drinking.

Last edited by 1Dreamer; 12-04-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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  #171  
Old 12-05-2012, 01:47 AM
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Ok guys I did talk to him for a while today, looks like its just a general discharge, not dishonorable. That's better, but obviously still not good. Apparently he's very unhappy with the army, and he's making it sound like the rules are stupid, the army is a bunch of pussies, not what he signed up for etc...

He did mention via text that he's thinking of going back to school and "working his a** off" to get a degree. Not sure exactly what to make of all this.
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  #172  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:44 AM
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So sorry to hear he got discharged...
my brother is going through the same thing, he pops pills, drinks till he passes out and is dealing drugs...

Just recently I had him arrested for domestic assault towards our mother and DUI...

He just got out last night and first thing he does is get drunk!!!

I want to help the guy but there's really no way unless they want to help themselves, I gave up on him...

I'm afraid the youngest of us 3 will follow his steps... he's been MIA for 2 days, comes home and knocks out for 24 hours and smells like cheap liquor and weed...

I've kicked both their assess countless times but all it does it bruise them up for a week and then they start getting high to relieve the pain...

My advice to you is to just let them be, sooner or later they will be out in a situation where they will realize that their life is garbage and will want to turn it around...

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  #173  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Lol Pot is a name that struck terror into many. Good riddance.


Actually, his name was Pol Pot.

Lol Pot struck laughter into many.
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  #174  
Old 12-05-2012, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Dreamer View Post
I think there's some miscommunication here. rclark didn't look at the dates and is responding to a very old post (thus, wyb's post) where Ryan is ticked his brother was smoking pot in the house. This was before his brother ever went into the service and is now at the point where he's being discharged for drinking.
Losing your job for drinking is substance abuse to my way of thinking.

I distinguish use from abuse, not between substances.


If your use of cocaine, pot, or booze interferes with your essential life, and causes you to lose your relationships, your job, your education, etc., then it is abuse, IMO, and you need professional help.
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  #175  
Old 12-05-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
I respectfully disagree.

He has lost a job because of substance abuse. The guy is in trouble and needs professional help.

If he is going to change his life around, he needs to seek help and follow their direction.

In my experience with dealing with employees who have had substance abuse problems, they must hit bottom before they bounce up. It is heart wrenching to not enable your child or brother, and it is difficult to know what to do in the moment, so all three of you need some counseling to find out what to do.

If your brother won't go, you and your mother should get some counseling so you can get professional advice.

Good luck.
I agree with this approach as the will to stop the behavior is within the user, and nothing you do will change that will until they reach the bottom as you say and then the enlightenment epiphany ensues that leads to recovery ....HOPEFULLY.

Much like military and martial arts, you have to break them down to re build.
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