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General BMW
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  #1  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:37 AM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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What Do You Get When You Buy A BMW?

Hello,

For some time...I've been asking myself this. BMWs are very expensive cars. Are they worth the market price and high repair costs?

Pretty much every newer car nowadays is coming out with every feature...heated seats, nav, Bluetooth, power everything, turbos, etc.

I work at a Dodge dealership (for now) and I've had the chance to drive many, many cars and trucks.

It seems like they all compare to my BMW..yet, my BMW is double the cost.
I drove a Hyundai Genesis. It is smoother than most 5-series BMW's I've driven.

The only thing I can think of is the interior and exterior of a BMW. No doubt, they know how to make their cars sleek. The interior is nicer than 90% of the cars you typically see.

I don't know. What do you all say?
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:55 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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With automobiles as with most products as the price increases the improvements do not increase in the same proportion. In other words a BMW may be a better car than a car that costs half as much but it is probably not twice as good. By the same token a BMW is probably more than half as good as a car that costs twice as much.

Also keep in mind that the price range of BMWs can be rather wide with a heavily optioned 335 selling for close to twice as much as a base 328.
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemorrhage View Post
Hello,

For some time...I've been asking myself this. BMWs are very expensive cars. Are they worth the market price and high repair costs?
BMW offers a combination of Luxury and performance that few other cars come close too.



They are expensive, but so are other cars. Dodge Dealership? A Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited top of sticker is $39,295. An X3 xDrive28i top of sticker is $38,500.
In the US, the price includes full maintenance and bumper to bumper warranty for 4 years. If you don't work at a dealer, maintenance is worth a good chunk of money.

How much does your dealership charge for the annual and 2-year service on a Grand Cherokee? I kinda remember hearing you are supposed to service the differentials too.


Yes, you can get a discount on the Jeep but BMW often offers good lease deals.

Can't get European delivery on a Jeep unless you live in Europe


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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 12-03-2012 at 07:30 AM.
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:48 AM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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I really do agree that BMW is amazing when it comes to combining luxury, performance, comfort, and mpg.
But, I guess I was expecting more for the average price of them.

Do they use better/stronger materials or anything?
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:57 AM
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MMME30W MMME30W is online now
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50/50 weight distribution. Engineering staff that can design a suspension that is a joy to drive. Stiff chassis. Available with a 6 speed transmission as God und Herr Falkenhausen intended. Restrained Teutonic approach to interior and exterior design. Use of high-quality materials and OEM suppliers. Acceptable reliability. Motorsport inspired driving experience. Practical everyday features. A trunk. Innovative and competitive-to-industry electronics and gizmos.

Show me another car brand with that, I'll buy it. Hint: it ain't a Hyundai. Yet.
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hemorrhage View Post

Do they use better/stronger materials or anything?

Sometimes and it depends what you are comparing with.


As you already noticed, BMW uses high end materials in the interior. The new 1 series 5 door has some hard plastics but BMW isn't selling that model in the US. at least not now.

The N52 engine has a Magnesium block. I don't think any of the current motors have a Magnesium block though. In that power range, BMW switched from a light I-6 to a turbocharged I-4.

BMW uses better high grade steel to save weight. They also use a lot of aluminium. But other automakers do that too. BMW is even falling behind a little. The Jaguar XJ has an all aluminium body. The 7 series is mix of steel and AL. Jaguar-Landrover is moving towards all aluminium bodies for all models.

Rather than play catch-up, BMW is getting ready to build an all carbon fibre body production car. As far as I know they will be the first.
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2012, 09:47 AM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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I'm assuming those new bodies aren't going to be at an affordable price (the price range they are now)?
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hemorrhage View Post
I'm assuming those new bodies aren't going to be at an affordable price (the price range they are now)?


BMW hasn't announced a price for the i3. Best official quote I've seen is "less than a 5 series"


Jaguar XJ's aren't cheap. An aluminum bodied Defender 90 starts around £20,000, I think. I'll have to check current prices. EDIT: £22,350 with tax, on the road.
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 12-05-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:59 PM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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A full carbon fiber body for less than a 5-series?
I'd be sold.

Back to the "materials used" subject...
I was kind of disappointed to see that my exhaust is made of a material that rusts.
The HPFP issue is kind of a disappointment.
The N54 engine having misfires as a "common" problem (worded by Terry Burger and experienced by me) is pretty disappointing.

I don't know. Like I said. I guess I was expecting more.
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2012, 04:58 PM
BobBNY BobBNY is offline
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You may have driven a lot of cars..... but have you really "DRIVEN" the cars? I mean how many cars have you driven to end of life or near end of life? I have owned over 35 cars so far,mostly domestic a few Japanese, and driven close to 1.5 million miles. Some of these cars were real dogs, most were good quality, and a few were pretty good. But all but my WRX, Audi, and BMW were appliances. Simply put my current BMW is the full package. It handles well, performs well, looks good, is manufactured with high quality materials and to date has had flawless quality. This message is being typed after driving 450 miles back and forth from metro NY area to Boston today for a 2 hour meeting. The car made a potentially grinding 7 hour round trip drive a pleasure.

A car is more than the sum of it's parts. I have an old saying "when you dissect a frog... it's dead". You can pick anything apart. For a premium product its all about value. This is true for swiss watches, a hand made suit, a gourmet meal, and a premium automobile. You either get it or you don't.

I think you get it since you are in fact driving a 335. My recommendation is to quit worrying about the value philosophy and go out and enjoy driving your car.

BB
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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Originally Posted by BobBNY View Post
You may have driven a lot of cars..... but have you really "DRIVEN" the cars? I mean how many cars have you driven to end of life or near end of life? I have owned over 35 cars so far,mostly domestic a few Japanese, and driven close to 1.5 million miles. Some of these cars were real dogs, most were good quality, and a few were pretty good. But all but my WRX, Audi, and BMW were appliances. Simply put my current BMW is the full package. It handles well, performs well, looks good, is manufactured with high quality materials and to date has had flawless quality. This message is being typed after driving 450 miles back and forth from metro NY area to Boston today for a 2 hour meeting. The car made a potentially grinding 7 hour round trip drive a pleasure.

A car is more than the sum of it's parts. I have an old saying "when you dissect a frog... it's dead". You can pick anything apart. For a premium product its all about value. This is true for swiss watches, a hand made suit, a gourmet meal, and a premium automobile. You either get it or you don't.

I think you get it since you are in fact driving a 335. My recommendation is to quit worrying about the value philosophy and go out and enjoy driving your car.

BB
I have not....not even my own. Too afraid of the car flipping over to push it to its limits, to be honest.
However, that's something I was also taking into consideration...performance.
My car is amazing at cornering.
Like I said...I've never pushed it to its limits, but I feel more confident cornering at higher speeds with my car than I do most.

Comparing the cost of a BMW to a regular car, one can only hope that it DOES perform better (cornering, slaloming, etc.).
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:58 PM
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I have an E46 330. It's a 2005 and it has 183,000 highway miles. I'm still STUNNED at how much fun it is to drive and well it handles. As for the repair costs, the E46 forum has pretty much figured out how to tear these cars down, and screw em back together. Yes I spend about 2k a year in DIY maintenance, but that includes tires. It's a feakin tank and when you hit the gas, it goes!! The wife is looking at a new F30 335 M sport, but as for me, I'm keeping my old trusty 330. Heck, I'm still cruising the ads looking for another low mileage 2005 330.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2012, 11:01 PM
aadhirasharma aadhirasharma is offline
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2012, 01:48 AM
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I have not....not even my own. Too afraid of the car flipping over to push it to its limits, to be honest.
It is unlikely it will roll unless you drive over something that will launch one side. On the other hand driving that fast in the road is bad idea.



Even an e83 X3 will slide before it rolls.



Debbie in a 335i on a skid pad:

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  #15  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:45 AM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
It is unlikely it will roll unless you drive over something that will launch one side. On the other hand driving that fast in the road is bad idea.



Even an e83 X3 will slide before it rolls.



Debbie in a 335i on a skid pad:

That's calming to know .

I've never been to a track or anything...and I think it'd be a bad idea to see "how fast this car will take this exit ramp turn".
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  #16  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemorrhage View Post
Hello,

For some time...I've been asking myself this. BMWs are very expensive cars. Are they worth the market price and high repair costs?

Pretty much every newer car nowadays is coming out with every feature...heated seats, nav, Bluetooth, power everything, turbos, etc.

I work at a Dodge dealership (for now) and I've had the chance to drive many, many cars and trucks.

It seems like they all compare to my BMW..yet, my BMW is double the cost.
I drove a Hyundai Genesis. It is smoother than most 5-series BMW's I've driven.

The only thing I can think of is the interior and exterior of a BMW. No doubt, they know how to make their cars sleek. The interior is nicer than 90% of the cars you typically see.

I don't know. What do you all say?
I say: Read the manual, preferably with a highlighter in hand. If any other car can beat the Bimmer, buy it.
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2012, 04:25 PM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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When I pay for a BMW, I expect durable parts that are made of better material than your average car.

This leads me to ask...

Where do you guys get your parts (tie rods, control arms, seals, little things like that) from? BMW? Or Advance (or any store similar to Advance)?
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2012, 05:16 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Originally Posted by Hemorrhage View Post
When I pay for a BMW, I expect durable parts that are made of better material than your average car.

This leads me to ask...

Where do you guys get your parts (tie rods, control arms, seals, little things like that) from? BMW? Or Advance (or any store similar to Advance)?
Glad you asked. Urban's BMW Service in Catonsville, MD.
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2012, 05:58 PM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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I'm assuming they sell OEM parts for cheap?
(Can't check right now.)
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:09 PM
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I was making a left turn on a left turn signal, going into a street that had recently had its right lane widened into two lanes, and there were vans in both lanes, and, as these work vans like to do, both were edged into the roadway.

As I made my left turn, I saw a fire truck coming up the lane I was going to turn into.

Off the gas, slam on the brakes, and the car just STOPPED, right now. Lift off the gas immediately like that, and a BMW thinks you might be going into emergency stop mode and precharges the brakes and gets ready. Slam them on, and those big brakes with top notch pads, calipers, charging system, disks, and everything else just stops the car better than a lesser car does.

What it feels like and does at 50, it feels like and does at 60, 70, 80, whatever. We drove 750 miles in one day with very little problem, and were not physically broken up after the drive, and we are not exactly young, and we averaged 29 mpg on the trip. And I was always able to put the car exactly where I wanted to at every time. Up a long grade and need to accellerate? No problem, just depress the pedal. Set the cruise at 75? Doesn't matter if you are going uphill down hill, long grade, sweepers, bends, whatever, the car just handles it with aplomb.

A BMW's overall limits are just higher.
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:30 PM
Hemorrhage Hemorrhage is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamdog View Post
I was making a left turn on a left turn signal, going into a street that had recently had its right lane widened into two lanes, and there were vans in both lanes, and, as these work vans like to do, both were edged into the roadway.

As I made my left turn, I saw a fire truck coming up the lane I was going to turn into.

Off the gas, slam on the brakes, and the car just STOPPED, right now. Lift off the gas immediately like that, and a BMW thinks you might be going into emergency stop mode and precharges the brakes and gets ready. Slam them on, and those big brakes with top notch pads, calipers, charging system, disks, and everything else just stops the car better than a lesser car does.

What it feels like and does at 50, it feels like and does at 60, 70, 80, whatever. We drove 750 miles in one day with very little problem, and were not physically broken up after the drive, and we are not exactly young, and we averaged 29 mpg on the trip. And I was always able to put the car exactly where I wanted to at every time. Up a long grade and need to accellerate? No problem, just depress the pedal. Set the cruise at 75? Doesn't matter if you are going uphill down hill, long grade, sweepers, bends, whatever, the car just handles it with aplomb.

A BMW's overall limits are just higher.
I had to drive a 2013 Grand Caravan today for 2 1/2 hours straight.
Some things I noticed were...
Highway driving was a pain because the van had no nuts (hard to pass people).
The sound system was probably the worst thing I've ever heard.
My back and ass were killing me midway through, and only got worse.
The comfort wasn't all that great. But, then again, I just got in and drove it. I didn't adjust anything.
Everything else had the same feeling as my BMW.

The longest I've spent in my BMW is 4 hours. My only complaints were that my ass hurt, and that my sound system would shut off, and then come back on 30min later (I'm assuming it overheats because I have it on max volume for my whole trips, usually).
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2012, 10:26 PM
hellosopo hellosopo is offline
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The biggest problem I have with "pretty much every newer car nowadays" is that they all understeer like crazy. If they have any amount of power (which they probably don't), they torque steer like crazy because it's likely FWD. Then you have the automatic transmission which is programmed for fuel economy. At least in my BMW I can choose a drivable automatic mode. The car has enough power to climb hills at highway speeds without hunting for gears. When I apply the brakes a bit going down a hill, it often downshifts to help slow the vehicle. I can get from 55mph to criminal speed in no time for passing, and the car is so solid and quiet that I don't even realize how fast I'm going.

Many of the features on a BMW also have refinements that make them a bit better than the typical offerings. That knob in the dash to direct the climate control for warmer or cooler air allows me to keep my upper body much more comfortable (it's much better than constantly fiddling with the primary temperature setting.) The climate control is typically powerful enough to keep me comfortable usually without blasting the air directly at me. The cruise control is not stupid and flooring the car at any small change. The gas cap holder actually works (this seems to be a difficult feature for some reason, though Ford has the best idea of getting rid of it completely.) There are a couple of small, removable, easy to clean grilles under the hood that capture leaves instead of letting them clog up the drains. I can turn on the parking lights only on the side of the car that is exposed to the road. It holds the brake for a couple of seconds on a hill so I can accelerate normally.

The bottom line is that the car has lots of little things that people don't really consider when purchasing a vehicle, but once you have a car with them you hate to lose them. It also has some things that are clearly over-engineered and totally unnecessary (runflat tires, electronic dipstick, windshield washer fluid level monitor), but I guess that's hard to avoid with German cars.
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2012, 10:33 PM
mr29 mr29 is offline
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Originally Posted by hellosopo View Post
The biggest problem I have with "pretty much every newer car nowadays" is that they all understeer like crazy. If they have any amount of power (which they probably don't), they torque steer like crazy because it's likely FWD. Then you have the automatic transmission which is programmed for fuel economy. At least in my BMW I can choose a drivable automatic mode. The car has enough power to climb hills at highway speeds without hunting for gears. When I apply the brakes a bit going down a hill, it often downshifts to help slow the vehicle. I can get from 55mph to criminal speed in no time for passing, and the car is so solid and quiet that I don't even realize how fast I'm going.

Many of the features on a BMW also have refinements that make them a bit better than the typical offerings. That knob in the dash to direct the climate control for warmer or cooler air allows me to keep my upper body much more comfortable (it's much better than constantly fiddling with the primary temperature setting.) The climate control is typically powerful enough to keep me comfortable usually without blasting the air directly at me. The cruise control is not stupid and flooring the car at any small change. The gas cap holder actually works (this seems to be a difficult feature for some reason, though Ford has the best idea of getting rid of it completely.) There are a couple of small, removable, easy to clean grilles under the hood that capture leaves instead of letting them clog up the drains. I can turn on the parking lights only on the side of the car that is exposed to the road. It holds the brake for a couple of seconds on a hill so I can accelerate normally.

The bottom line is that the car has lots of little things that people don't really consider when purchasing a vehicle, but once you have a car with them you hate to lose them. It also has some things that are clearly over-engineered and totally unnecessary (runflat tires, electronic dipstick, windshield washer fluid level monitor), but I guess that's hard to avoid with German cars.
very well put here

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2012, 11:40 AM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Originally Posted by Hemorrhage View Post

I had to drive a 2013 Grand Caravan today for 2 1/2 hours straight.

...

Everything else had the same feeling as my BMW.
I think you need to get out of that car. There is nothing, let me repeat, NOTHING your BMW will do for YOU that a nice Charger with Pentastar V6 wouldn't. For almost half the price, especially to you as employee. Has RWD too, to boot.

Get rid of that BMW as soon as you can.
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  #25  
Old 12-10-2012, 04:07 PM
Q. Senna Q. Senna is offline
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