Brother smoking pot downstairs.

Originally Posted by Kamdog

Losing your job for drinking is substance abuse to my way of thinking.

I distinguish use from abuse, not between substances.


If your use of cocaine, pot, or booze interferes with your essential life, and causes you to lose your relationships, your job, your education, etc., then it is abuse, IMO, and you need professional help.

Agreed. Notice where I said basically the same above in responding to him? Just pointing out that you're responding to rclark's post who was responding to something that was posted BEFORE any of this happened. Clearly, things have gotten much worse since then.

Originally Posted by 1Dreamer

Agreed. Notice where I said basically the same above in responding to him? Just pointing out that you're responding to rclark's post who was responding to something that was posted BEFORE any of this happened. Clearly, things have gotten much worse since then.

I thought I was responding to his brother getting the boot from the Army.


I hate to say it, but it always gets worse and only sometimes gets better.


I went down the path of responding to substance abuse for a few of my employees, and none of them were able to retain their jobs.

General Discharge > Dishonorable Discharge but a employer will know something was not right if they ask for a DD 214.

Originally Posted by Ryan...

Any advice is much appreciated.

A friend's mother once said 'work cures a multitude of ills.' I can only imagine life in the military could be mind-numbingly dull at times. Not saying it's OK but it might not be that bad either. Maybe rebelling against nonsense is a sign of a healthy spirit. I think young men would do well to be part of building a house. Even just being a laborer with a construction company in the building of a house or similar can be a good grounding.

Well he mentioned working in Alaska on an oil rig, but I think he may have been joking

If rebelling is a sign of a healthy spirit, I imagine my spirit is one of the healthiest in the world

I don't want to diss the military, I see the need for defense in the world but I've heard some stories about some of the piles of nonsense people are frequently required to move about.

I've heard things like this before from friends/family that have joined the forces, so I know that what he's saying is probably true. However, that's no excuse to drink heavily, especially when you're under age and there have been issues with his superiors before.

True that, all of us will face unpleasantness in our life, you have to be creative in how you deal with it. I've been guilty of the escaping things through chemistry pitfall now and then, though I never drink excessively anymore.

underage drinking is a problem - but much of it stems from the age of legal drinking being 21 imo.

In countries where the legal age to drink is lower, I experienced being introduced to alcohol in a social setting - being 18, 19, 20, 21 and headed off to college or the military and learning "how to drink" from your peers is a disaster - it is a disaster at college and in the military... because the reasons and lessons surrounding responsible alcohol consumption are just NOT THERE.

I grew up in the UK - legal age of consumption 18. But spent time in France and Italy - where children often get a water+wine with dinner - it makes them think they are grown up and starts down the road of drinking socially, not binge drinking - as a teen, I was allowed to drink at meal times (a small glass) - from age 12 or so. Then - with Boy Scouts - once I hit 15-16 - after scouts, the older ones and the scout masters would go to the pub - we'd get to go along (with parental consent) - and have *a* beer - just ONE. Then, after 6 months or so - we'd be allowed to get our 2nd beer... again - the goal was socializing - with alcohol being just part of the experience ... but it meant we were learning that alcohol isn't a binge-drinking tool - or an escape - it is just something you might choose to partake in when you socialize.

The other thing that came out of this - was that I didn't try to "sneak" alcohol - because it wasn't "forbidden". The same argument used to say that if MJ was legal, it wouldn't be as expensive, a criminal enterprise, or taboo - leading eventually to LESS use - holds here because of what I saw with alcohol - friends I grew up with who didn't have exposure to alcohol in the same way, were the ones who would steal it from the liquor cabinet.... I never realized that for years afterwards, but looking back - it's so obvious now.... and those teens I went to school with who boarded at schools (I went home every day because I lived nearby) - they bought and drank in the woods near school... I never did... it simply wasn't taboo - so I didn't care - and of course, these teens weren't under parental influence daily - some of them were thousands of miles away from home - their peers taught them their drinking lessons and those lessons were NOT good as it turns out.

Here in the US - by having the legal age put so far out there, I have seen that our teens head out of the parental sphere of influence in many ways as they are supposed to be getting these lessons - and once that happens - the lessons they self-learn while away from home - aren't the ones they should learn (or so I have observed).

Just my 2c - the age for alcohol consent should be lowered to 18 imo - maybe even 17 in states with 3.2 beers still. I think it would lead to LESS alcohol problems if it were.

^ ^ I often wonder about the 'forbidden' thing. When I was 18 at college, the herb, mon, held greater appeal because it was wicked and forbidden. I grew up Mormon and first got drunk just after HS graduation, also 18, and holy crap, I'll never know how close I came to dying but I drank way too much gin and felt like warmed over death for the next 12-18 hours. Just did not have a clue about the stuff or how to drink it.

Don't take the tires, it's too much work, just remove all the lug nuts except one on each wheel.
Then bust in like a crazy man with a bat

Sit back and watch the fun unfold !