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  #1  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:10 AM
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Question April 15th ED M3, Winter Tire and BMWED Insurance Coverage?

I am in the planning of the second ED for an 2013 M3 on April 15th (or later if possible since that week there is some kind of conference/Expo in Munich and hotels are $$$$). Is winter tire require? I will not get the Alps and probably do Munich. Vienna, Prague, Berlin, The Ring, Stuttgart and back to Munich for drop off. My question is:

Winter tire require? I was thinking to do it earlier in April and heard that before April 15, if I have no winter tire, BMWED insurance will not coverage any damage costs by having no winter tire.

I don't mean I will drive crazy in Munich, but would still like to know the coverage is intact to have peace of mind.

Anyone know the cutoff for BMWED insurance for winter tire is really April 15 (or earlier). Should I call to find out?

Thanks
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1992 325i Convertible M-Technic II Appearance Package
2005 X3 3.0i (Lease return in 2008)
2006 330i (Lease return 2009)
2008 Cooper S Clubman (Sold)
2006 650i (sold)
2011 535i M-Sport (ED September 17th, 2011,redeliver on 11/15/2011, sold)
2011 Z4 SDrive35is (ED September 17th, 2011, redeliver on 11/9/2011, Lease return on September 2013)
2013 M3 (ED pickup April 23rd, 2013, redeliver on 6/28/2013)
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2012, 09:38 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prost View Post
I was thinking to do it earlier in April and heard that before April 15, if I have no winter tire, BMWED insurance will not coverage any damage costs by having no winter tire.

I don't mean I will drive crazy in Munich, but would still like to know the coverage is intact to have peace of mind.
As far as I understand, it is possible that they MAY cover you if you have an accident if you don't have winter tires - if the cause is not due to the absence of winter rubber. But you may have to fight for it. If you are cited by the authorities, then I wouldn't like your chances being covered by insurance.

What's your risk tolerance with insurance? Willing to take a risk without it if driving conservatively in a foreign country?
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
As far as I understand, it is possible that they MAY cover you if you have an accident if you don't have winter tires - if the cause is not due to the absence of winter rubber. But you may have to fight for it. If you are cited by the authorities, then I wouldn't like your chances being covered by insurance.

What's your risk tolerance with insurance? Willing to take a risk without it if driving conservatively in a foreign country?
As I said, I don't think I will drive like there is no tomorrow and nothing dramatic, but just want to know a sure answer to have peace of mind.

I was driving "conservatively" at the "ring" last year ever though I know the ED insurance will cover it...but the peace of mind will take away a lot of pressure of the drive in a foreign country...
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1992 325i Convertible M-Technic II Appearance Package
2005 X3 3.0i (Lease return in 2008)
2006 330i (Lease return 2009)
2008 Cooper S Clubman (Sold)
2006 650i (sold)
2011 535i M-Sport (ED September 17th, 2011,redeliver on 11/15/2011, sold)
2011 Z4 SDrive35is (ED September 17th, 2011, redeliver on 11/9/2011, Lease return on September 2013)
2013 M3 (ED pickup April 23rd, 2013, redeliver on 6/28/2013)
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:06 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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If you want a definitive answer before the fact, basically you're taking a risk. There's no peace of mind from everything I've seen or read. If someone says otherwise, I would ask to see the evidence, then review it very carefully. I'd also like to see it.

I was taking a ride back to the dealership yesterday with the shuttle, and he mentioned that someone brake checked him, almost causing him to rear end the car in front. What if that had been you in Germany, and you slid into the back of someone's car since you were on summer tires?
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 11-27-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:30 PM
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So what you mean is that the ED insurance is not going to cover for anyone if you are at fault?That is not what I heard when I did my ED last time...

I am not saying that I will drive in snow and try to get cover when I have no snow tire...just want some answer to be sure and peace of mind.

Thanks for your comment BTW
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1992 325i Convertible M-Technic II Appearance Package
2005 X3 3.0i (Lease return in 2008)
2006 330i (Lease return 2009)
2008 Cooper S Clubman (Sold)
2006 650i (sold)
2011 535i M-Sport (ED September 17th, 2011,redeliver on 11/15/2011, sold)
2011 Z4 SDrive35is (ED September 17th, 2011, redeliver on 11/9/2011, Lease return on September 2013)
2013 M3 (ED pickup April 23rd, 2013, redeliver on 6/28/2013)
BMWCCA: 359118
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:50 PM
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AggieKnight AggieKnight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prost View Post
So what you mean is that the ED insurance is not going to cover for anyone if you are at fault?That is not what I heard when I did my ED last time...

I am not saying that I will drive in snow and try to get cover when I have no snow tire...just want some answer to be sure and peace of mind.
First, I'm no expert but I did stay at the Hotel Sacher in Salzburg last night.

My understanding is that if you are in an accident w/out winter shoes during certain months of the year, your insurance coverage may not apply. The law is a bit convoluted, but (I think) if winter conditions are found to be a contributing factor then you are screwed. As was already pointed out, if you are cited for not having the appropriate shoes that will definitely give the insurance company something to hold against you. Remember, this is an insurance company with a business relationship with BMW, not BMW itself.

Now, when you order an ED during the winter time, you sign a piece of paper acknowledging the winter tires/winter conditions law.

I think it all comes down to how risk adverse you are on a vacation with a brand new $70k auto.

Personally, even though I basically paid for a new set of tires during my two weeks over here, it was well worth my money for the peace of mind during my ED. I have the same view for people that want to skip the Austrian Vignette. Sure, you may get away with it, but do you want to worry about getting caught w/out it the entire time you are in Austria?

Btw, funny story - on the A10 Monday, the Austrian police had a traffic stop where they checked every single care for its sticker. My 8 euro was well spent.
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Last edited by AggieKnight; 11-28-2012 at 12:42 PM. Reason: Grammar 4 t3h w1n.
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:51 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prost View Post
So what you mean is that the ED insurance is not going to cover for anyone if you are at fault?That is not what I heard when I did my ED last time...

I am not saying that I will drive in snow and try to get cover when I have no snow tire...just want some answer to be sure and peace of mind.

Thanks for your comment BTW
What exactly did you hear the last time you did ED? They said that if you don't have winter tires, and are at fault, in a winter tire requirement situation, that you would be covered?

I mean that ED insurance may not (I'd say probably not) provide coverage if you don't have winter tires, and are at fault, in a winter tire requirement situation. And say you weren't at fault, and the other driver pointed out to an attending officer that you didn't have winter rubber and you were cited? It's a potential mitigating circumstance.

So for peace of mind, peace of mind being that you understand where you stand, I'd say that you should consider you won't have coverage in the aforementioned situations at the least, for your car, and for any damage you cause.

Is the point that you don't understand what I'm saying, or that you are not finding an answer that suits what you want? No matter what I or anyone posts, and how positive a situation can be (if this, and that, you should be fine etc.), the bottom line is that you are taking a significant additional risk of not being covered by insurance by driving without winter tires in winter situations.

I also fully agree with AggieKnight. So if that makes more sense, I'd say take it that way. I think I speak for everyone here, that we all mean well, and we'd like to sugar coat things if possible, but there is a real significant financial, and potentially other risks (say you caused bodily injury?) involved.
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2012 ActiveHybrid 750i ED

3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 11-28-2012 at 07:11 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
What exactly did you hear the last time you did ED? They said that if you don't have winter tires, and are at fault, in a winter tire requirement situation, that you would be covered?

I mean that ED insurance may not (I'd say probably not) provide coverage if you don't have winter tires, and are at fault, in a winter tire requirement situation. And say you weren't at fault, and the other driver pointed out to an attending officer that you didn't have winter rubber and you were cited? It's a potential mitigating circumstance.

So for peace of mind, peace of mind being that you understand where you stand, I'd say that you should consider you won't have coverage in the aforementioned situations at the least, for your car, and for any damage you cause.

Is the point that you don't understand what I'm saying, or that you are not finding an answer that suits what you want? No matter what I or anyone posts, and how positive a situation can be (if this, and that, you should be fine etc.), the bottom line is that you are taking a significant additional risk of not being covered by insurance by driving without winter tires in winter situations.

I also fully agree with AggieKnight. So if that makes more sense, I'd say take it that way. I think I speak for everyone here, that we all mean well, and we'd like to sugar coat things if possible, but there is a real significant financial, and potentially other risks (say you caused bodily injury?) involved.
My last ED is September 2011 so winter tire is not a requirement. I understand what you said but what I really want is are there any "cutoff" date for winter tire and all I heard is from end of Easter to April 15th...I am fully aware that even if it's June and there is a snow storm in Germany, I will still be at risk to use summer tire in that situation. All I want to know is that if the cut off date is April 15th and if I drive on like April 17th without winter tire, I am "not" really against the "law".

I guess I need to call BMWED to find out are there any written rule for any cutoff date.

Again, thanks for all the comment!
__________________
1992 325i Convertible M-Technic II Appearance Package
2005 X3 3.0i (Lease return in 2008)
2006 330i (Lease return 2009)
2008 Cooper S Clubman (Sold)
2006 650i (sold)
2011 535i M-Sport (ED September 17th, 2011,redeliver on 11/15/2011, sold)
2011 Z4 SDrive35is (ED September 17th, 2011, redeliver on 11/9/2011, Lease return on September 2013)
2013 M3 (ED pickup April 23rd, 2013, redeliver on 6/28/2013)
BMWCCA: 359118
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:30 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prost View Post
My last ED is September 2011 so winter tire is not a requirement. I understand what you said but what I really want is are there any "cutoff" date for winter tire and all I heard is from end of Easter to April 15th...I am fully aware that even if it's June and there is a snow storm in Germany, I will still be at risk to use summer tire in that situation. All I want to know is that if the cut off date is April 15th and if I drive on like April 17th without winter tire, I am "not" really against the "law".

I guess I need to call BMWED to find out are there any written rule for any cutoff date.

Again, thanks for all the comment!
The cutoff of April 15th, applies to Austria. You must have winter tires, by law, even in non-winter conditions in Austria until April 15th, even if it's 90 degrees. That does not apply in Germany. In Germany, you must have winter tires in winter conditions - there is no time stipulation.
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2012 ActiveHybrid 750i ED

3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 11-28-2012 at 08:52 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
The cutoff of April 15th, applies to Austria. You must have winter tires, by law, even in non-winter conditions in Austria until April 15th, even if it's 90 degrees. That does not apply in Germany. In Germany, you must have winter tires in winter conditions - there is no time stipulation.
I just got my ED Reservation Latter forwarded to me by my CA. After all of the ED date, time and information, the first paragraph said:

Performance Tires - If your customer's vehicle is equipped with performance tires, please note Germany requires that all vehicles must have winter tires or all season tires (M & S tires) from October 15th through April 15th. For winter tire rental reservations, please contact the vendor at www.edwintertires.com. Tires are subject to availability.
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1992 325i Convertible M-Technic II Appearance Package
2005 X3 3.0i (Lease return in 2008)
2006 330i (Lease return 2009)
2008 Cooper S Clubman (Sold)
2006 650i (sold)
2011 535i M-Sport (ED September 17th, 2011,redeliver on 11/15/2011, sold)
2011 Z4 SDrive35is (ED September 17th, 2011, redeliver on 11/9/2011, Lease return on September 2013)
2013 M3 (ED pickup April 23rd, 2013, redeliver on 6/28/2013)
BMWCCA: 359118
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  #11  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:27 AM
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I see that you plan to visit Prague - note that the laws are different in each country and in the Czech Republic Winter tires are required by law till 30th April.
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:32 AM
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I see that you plan to visit Prague - note that the laws are different in each country and in the Czech Republic Winter tires are required by law till 30th April.
Good to know, we might skip Prague if that's that case...thanks
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2005 X3 3.0i (Lease return in 2008)
2006 330i (Lease return 2009)
2008 Cooper S Clubman (Sold)
2006 650i (sold)
2011 535i M-Sport (ED September 17th, 2011,redeliver on 11/15/2011, sold)
2011 Z4 SDrive35is (ED September 17th, 2011, redeliver on 11/9/2011, Lease return on September 2013)
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:33 AM
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My opinion is it has nothing whatsoever to do with "I will [not] drive like there is no tomorrow and nothing dramatic" or "I don't mean I will drive crazy"

If on the admittedly rather small chance there are winter conditions that late in the year, no matter the Country, no matter your speeds, no matter for how long the weather lasts, your M3 factory tires will be unsafe to drive on (or at least very very unstable) for the period(s) that there is snow/slush/ice on the ground and will severely limit where/what/when you can do things. And then, of course, even if you feel "I can handle it"-- doesn't mean the insurance folks will feel you made a good choice for them, in the extremely unlikely event you have an accident.

Last edited by Jon90; 12-11-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:23 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon90 View Post
My opinion is it has nothing whatsoever to do with "I will [not] drive like there is no tomorrow and nothing dramatic" or "I don't mean I will drive crazy"
That's a good point. You will not be covered if you do drive crazily, regardless of tire. You can imagine the police report - driver was reckless, driving at speed, and endangering person and prpoerty - but he did have winter tires on.

How you drive applies to risk, but not coverage when talking about winter conditions and tires.
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2012 ActiveHybrid 750i ED

3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 12-11-2012 at 10:26 AM.
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