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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)

X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:22 PM
nicholascanada nicholascanada is offline
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Reliability -X3 vs. GLK vs. Evoque??

So after countless hours of research and test drives, I have made up my mind on buying one of the following 2013 vehicles:

Bmw X3 35i
Mercedes GLK
Range Rover Evoque

All vehicles have everything I want. They all are great vehicles. I would be happy with either of them.

My BIG question is RELIABILITY. I will be keeping this vehicle 8-10 years. I would prefer not to purchase an extended warranty because i dont feel they are good value. So for all three vehicles, after 4 years I would be off warranty.

In your opinion, which vehicle do you think would be the most reliable? I have heard some horrid stories about Range Rover, but also seem to constantly read problems here for the x3s. I really don't want to spend $50-$60k and not have a long term reliable vehicle. I currently drive an Acura, so I am used to bulletproof build quality. I am just very scared that my three choices for my next SUV might be terrible for long term reliability. Thank you for your time.

Nick
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  #2  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:34 PM
shane.reid shane.reid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholascanada View Post
So after countless hours of research and test drives, I have made up my mind on buying one of the following 2013 vehicles:

Bmw X3 35i
Mercedes GLK
Range Rover Evoque

All vehicles have everything I want. They all are great vehicles. I would be happy with either of them.

My BIG question is RELIABILITY. I will be keeping this vehicle 8-10 years. I would prefer not to purchase an extended warranty because i dont feel they are good value. So for all three vehicles, after 4 years I would be off warranty.

In your opinion, which vehicle do you think would be the most reliable? I have heard some horrid stories about Range Rover, but also seem to constantly read problems here for the x3s. I really don't want to spend $50-$60k and not have a long term reliable vehicle. I currently drive an Acura, so I am used to bulletproof build quality. I am just very scared that my three choices for my next SUV might be terrible for long term reliability. Thank you for your time.

Nick
I've owned 3 X3s... and just bought my 4th for delivery before months end.

2005 X3, lease, perfectly reliable for me over 3 years, only scheduled maintenance.
2006 X3 CPO'd, bought at end of 2005 lease, owned for 2.5 years, horrible.. spent a ton of time in the shop, got rid of it a little before I'd need to for CPO expiration. Sunroof leaks, you name it. A/C problems... 1 week in the shop for loss of power steering @ 60k miles

2011 X3 (new style, F25): had for 2 years now, just about, no issue at all. Perfect, liked it so much, we're exiting the lease early to buy one knowing the specs we want now.

That said, the new engine, N20, hasn't been out long enough to really know what's what. BMW does tend to over-engineer, so you've got that going for you.

I also had a 2003 325i. That was a great car for 5 years 100k miles (I drive a lot).

in general, I've had, on average, good experiences with BMWs... but I've yet to own one over 110k miles - hoping to keep the 2013 X3 for that, but will depend on when my Cooper Clubman S gives up the ghost.
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  #3  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:15 PM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane.reid View Post
That said, the new engine, N20, hasn't been out long enough to really know what's what. BMW does tend to over-engineer, so you've got that going for you.
He's looking to buy the 35i which has the N55 engine in it. It's won mulitple awards and I haven't read anything negative about it to date. I think it's a crap shoot with BMW's. You either get a good one or nothing but trouble. Doesn't seem to be a middle ground with them. I have read a lot of negative reliability reports with Range Rover. I would put that one at the bottom of the list.
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  #4  
Old 12-13-2012, 08:41 PM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholascanada View Post
So after countless hours of research and test drives, I have made up my mind on buying one of the following 2013 vehicles:

Bmw X3 35i
Mercedes GLK
Range Rover Evoque

All vehicles have everything I want. They all are great vehicles. I would be happy with either of them.

My BIG question is RELIABILITY. I will be keeping this vehicle 8-10 years. I would prefer not to purchase an extended warranty because i dont feel they are good value. So for all three vehicles, after 4 years I would be off warranty.

In your opinion, which vehicle do you think would be the most reliable? I have heard some horrid stories about Range Rover, but also seem to constantly read problems here for the x3s. I really don't want to spend $50-$60k and not have a long term reliable vehicle. I currently drive an Acura, so I am used to bulletproof build quality. I am just very scared that my three choices for my next SUV might be terrible for long term reliability. Thank you for your time.

Nick

Range Rover has the worst reputation for reliability out of that group. Coincidently I'm going from an Acura to an X3. I am concerned about Bimmer reliability as well. I guess I'll find out and so will you if you decide to buy an X3 too.
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  #5  
Old 12-14-2012, 03:51 AM
nhman nhman is offline
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OP, I don't own a X3 but in the past owned several BMW's including a 335i vert, 540i and 530i. All were reliable but I follow a regular maintenance program. The 3.5 engine (in the X3) has been around for a bit and the X3 is almost at the LCI point. Therefore most of the issues, if any, should be behind. Difficult to forecast 10-years down the road but a BMW can be a long-term reliable vehicle.

I like the styling of the Ranger Rover Evoque but in general, R.R.'s haven't been reliable vehicles. Also consider that if you want to trade 4-6 years down the road depreciation could be a factor.

I don't have any background on the GLK. You may want to check the M-B forums.

Between the GLK and X3, I think it comes down to styling, drive and general feel. Which one better suits your life-style.
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  #6  
Old 12-14-2012, 06:24 AM
rambos rambos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane.reid View Post
2006 X3 CPO'd, bought at end of 2005 lease, owned for 2.5 years, horrible.. spent a ton of time in the shop, got rid of it a little before I'd need to for CPO expiration. Sunroof leaks, you name it. A/C problems... 1 week in the shop for loss of power steering @ 60k miles
Rating the quality based on Certified Pre-Owned vehicle is not correct as CPO's are mostly originally leased ones that were abused a lot. I will never purchase a CPO for this reason.
Except for your 2006, your newly leased 2005 and 2011 were trouble free proofs this.
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  #7  
Old 12-14-2012, 06:26 AM
shane.reid shane.reid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambos View Post
Rating the quality based on Certified Pre-Owned vehicle is not correct as CPO's are mostly originally leased ones that were abused a lot. I will never purchase a CPO for this reason.
Except for your 2006, your newly leased 2005 and 2011 were trouble free proofs this.
Disagree with your statement as a blanket statement. A 3 year old car with 36k miles that originally cost 50k should have, on average, good reliability.

They should be able to withstand, on average, average abuse.
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  #8  
Old 12-14-2012, 08:46 AM
poker838 poker838 is offline
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I'll put money down on the GLK. Powertrain has been historically solid for Benz.. it's the electronics that I'm worried about!
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2012, 04:21 PM
suvguy suvguy is offline
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The Benz is smFirst time BMW owner- 22,000 miles on my 2011 3.5. Two flats on the run flats, otherwise no problems at all. The car handles great, has lots of room, is extremely comfortable, and flies when you want it to.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2012, 09:26 PM
nicholascanada nicholascanada is offline
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Yes I noticed that the 3.0L BMW engine and Q5 3.0L engine won Ward's engine awards again. So I think what scares me on the reliability is actually more on the fit and finish. I read about the sunroof leaking on X3s? Just seems amazing on a $60k vehicle.
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2012, 06:09 AM
rambos rambos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane.reid View Post
A 3 year old car with 36k miles that originally cost 50k should have, on average, good reliability.

They should be able to withstand, on average, average abuse.
Cars are not built to withstand abuses doesn't matter whether it is 10k or 100k. In reality luxury cars are more prone to abuse due to the highly sensitive gadgets in them. How many times do you think the Camera on the side view mirror can take the hit or park distance on the rear bumper can tolerate knocks? Didn't we all drive cars without these gadgets some 15 years ago? No power doors/windows/seats, no nav to freeze, no moonroof to leak. I remember going to the dealer for oil change and brake services for my 1993 pontiac grandAM. In the last decade, most of my repair shop visits are to fix power window regulator or the power locks.

Last edited by rambos; 12-15-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2012, 06:30 AM
noka noka is offline
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Originally Posted by rambos View Post
...I remember going to the dealer for oil change and break services ...
I would never pay a dealer to break my car Sorry, just the silly in me However, you have a good point about cars being more complex and prone to failure of one kind or another.
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2012, 07:04 AM
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lbjgh lbjgh is offline
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I was very close to buying the RR Evoque... I had just finished my second test drive in one when I decided that I should at least test drive the x3. I never actually considered the x3 because I thought it was an ugly car. I never even considered reliability as I know reliability would not match our then Acura /Honda vehicles. I ended up with the x3 primarily because of the driving dynamics. P.S. I wasn't wrong about my expectations.
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2012, 08:20 AM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambos View Post
Cars are not built to withstand abuses doesn't matter whether it is 10k or 100k. In reality luxury cars are more prone to abuse due to the highly sensitive gadgets in them. How many times do you think the Camera on the side view mirror can take the hit or park distance on the rear bumper can tolerate knocks? Didn't we all drive cars without these gadgets some 15 years ago? No power doors/windows/seats, no nav to freeze, no moonroof to leak. I remember going to the dealer for oil change and brake services for my 1993 pontiac grandAM. In the last decade, most of my repair shop visits are to fix power window regulator or the power locks.
Totally disagree with you. I have a 2007 Acura RL and it has Navigation, Rear Camera, Bluetooth, Voice Commands, 5.1 Surround Sound, Key fob, Power: Seats, Door Locks, Windows, lots of technology and NOTHING has gone wrong with anything. It has over 110K miles on it and everything contnues to work perfectly.

I'm going to be very pissed off if the $50K X3 I just bought has service issues. There's absolutely no excuse for BMW not to be able to produce as good of quality vehicles as the Japanese do.
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2012, 08:37 AM
rambos rambos is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
Totally disagree with you. I have a 2007 Acura RL and it has Navigation, Rear Camera, Bluetooth, Voice Commands, 5.1 Surround Sound, Key fob, Power: Seats, Door Locks, Windows, lots of technology and NOTHING has gone wrong with anything. It has over 110K miles on it and everything contnues to work perfectly.
Sorry, I don't mainly buy BMW for reliable cosmetics. As long as BMW deliver quality & superior German engineering I am in. I have friends who always buy Japanese for their so called reliability and shiny cosmetics. Acura is a good car, but I don't know if it can be compared to BMW's X3 or X5. I rather live with the superior quality mechanics and average reliable cosmetics than superior cosmetics and average mechanics.
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2012, 08:47 AM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Originally Posted by rambos View Post
Sorry, I don't mainly buy BMW for reliable cosmetics. As long as BMW deliver quality & superior German engineering I am in. I have friends who always buy Japanese for their so called reliability and shiny cosmetics. Acura is a good car, but I don't know if it can be compared to BMW's X3 or X5. I rather live with the superior quality mechanics and average reliable cosmetics than superior cosmetics and average mechanics.
I agree that the Germans engineer cars better. I just bought an X3 because it drives better than any SUV I've ever driven. I just don't think that as a BMW owner we should have to resign ourselves to crappy production that result in service issues. There's no excuse for building $50K+ luxury vehicles and implicitly telling your clients that you should expect to have service issues because we build better engineered vehicles than others.

Some of my friends have had no problems with thier Bimmers, but others have warned me to beware. I'm a bit worried.
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  #17  
Old 12-15-2012, 09:07 AM
rambos rambos is offline
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Originally Posted by Bmwlvr60 View Post
I agree that the Germans engineer cars better. I just bought an X3 because it drives better than any SUV I've ever driven. I just don't think that as a BMW owner we should have to resign ourselves to crappy production that result in service issues. There's no excuse for building $50K+ luxury vehicles and implicitly telling your clients that you should expect to have service issues because we build better engineered vehicles than others.

Some of my friends have had no problems with thier Bimmers, but others have warned me to beware. I'm a bit worried.
I have owned X3 2005 for the past 8 years and 100k miles. I only had couple of issues with my old one one both related to the power window regulators on the rear left and right needed to be changed at 70k and 90k miles. One issue with A/C hose was taken care of during the warranty period. All the other services to this car were wear and tear related. My 100k is mainly commute to work AM/PM stop/go traffic which is equivalent of >150k on highway driving. Again, I can speak only for myself. Buying a car is like you ending up with one bad doctor in a very good hospital or one bad teacher in a very good school. BMW, being one of the top car company's in the world, always get criticized for small things. Good pro player always comes under scrutiny for small issues. Good luck with your X3. You will not regret your purchase.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:20 AM
Bmwlvr60 Bmwlvr60 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambos View Post
I have owned X3 2005 for the past 8 years and 100k miles. I only had couple of issues with my old one one both related to the power window regulators on the rear left and right needed to be changed at 70k and 90k miles. One issue with A/C hose was taken care of during the warranty period. All the other services to this car were wear and tear related. My 100k is mainly commute to work AM/PM stop/go traffic which is equivalent of >150k on highway driving. Again, I can speak only for myself. Buying a car is like you ending up with one bad doctor in a very good hospital or one bad teacher in a very good school. BMW, being one of the top car company's in the world, always get criticized for small things. Good pro player always comes under scrutiny for small issues. Good luck with your X3. You will not regret your purchase.
Glad to hear that!

I won't be upset if a couple of things go wrong like you described. I had a Volvo S-80 which was an absolute lemon and a nightmare until I got rid of it.

Even the Hondas/Acuras have a reputation for bad transmissions- thankfully something I've never had to experience. Small percentage have this, but everybody who was interested in my 2005 MDX asked if I had any transmission issues.
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2012, 09:29 AM
shane.reid shane.reid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rambos View Post
I have owned X3 2005 for the past 8 years and 100k miles. I only had couple of issues with my old one one both related to the power window regulators on the rear left and right needed to be changed at 70k and 90k miles. One issue with A/C hose was taken care of during the warranty period. All the other services to this car were wear and tear related. My 100k is mainly commute to work AM/PM stop/go traffic which is equivalent of >150k on highway driving. Again, I can speak only for myself. Buying a car is like you ending up with one bad doctor in a very good hospital or one bad teacher in a very good school. BMW, being one of the top car company's in the world, always get criticized for small things. Good pro player always comes under scrutiny for small issues. Good luck with your X3. You will not regret your purchase.
I think you are missing the point...

I'm, and others, are saying that on AVERAGE, a 50k+ car should be able to withstand AVERAGE lease usage. They should be designed to deal with an AVERAGE user for 3 years.

I'd even guess that on AVERAGE, they probably are.

I agree that they will not withstand all users for that time period, but on average...

So then, a CPO car, on average, should be reliable at that point.

You might disagree with that as true, but you shouldn't disagree with it as an expectation.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:25 AM
rambos rambos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shane.reid View Post
I think you are missing the point...

I'm, and others, are saying that on AVERAGE, a 50k+ car should be able to withstand AVERAGE lease usage. They should be designed to deal with an AVERAGE user for 3 years.

I'd even guess that on AVERAGE, they probably are.

I agree that they will not withstand all users for that time period, but on average...

So then, a CPO car, on average, should be reliable at that point.

You might disagree with that as true, but you shouldn't disagree with it as an expectation.
I am not denying the fact that a 50k CPO car should have at least average reliability. My only problem is that if the average being 50% or even 40% of the CPO cars cannot be trusted and I only get one chance based on 40-50% probability and ending up with the bad one is pretty high compared to the 2-3% of the new one. May be I am biased -bitten once long time back. Personally I wouldn't buy any CPO as they don't add any value when you can lease a new luxury car for the less money with incentives. Buying/leasing of new cars worked for me for the past 12 years (2 cars in the family at a time). Again at the end of the days everything come down to financials and personal preferences. Good luck.
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  #21  
Old 12-15-2012, 12:47 PM
alex md alex md is offline
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Owned GLK 350 for almost 4 years- not an issue, except a couple of bulbs replaced-solid, very reliable
Owned 2 x3 3.0 /wife and daugther/ 36 mo each no problems, perfect cars, had about 7 BMW/525,x3,x5,328,550/ mostly very reliable with exception of last 550/ had to replace an engine after 4000 miles/
Ordered x3 3.5 for my wife you cant compare x3 with GLK - totaly different and much more fun to drive, style- personal choice
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  #22  
Old 12-15-2012, 05:08 PM
kosmo kosmo is offline
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Just buy the extended warranty if you're sure you will keep the car that long. Long-term reliability is typically very good on these cars, but just ONE bad problem on any of the cars you are considering can leave your wallet much lighter. High pressure fuel pumps, anyone?

With BMW (and perhaps the others) you can even wait until you are about a month away from your original warranty expiration to decide whether to purchase the extended version.

Just wait until you're with the finance guy, grumble a bit good-naturedly about some minor part of the purchase experience, mention how you HATE giving anything but the highest marks on the post-purchase satisfaction survey, and you're almost certain to be offered a reasonable discount on the extended warranty.

Personally, I never buy them for my "fun" car anymore, since I'm at that age where trying something new every 4 years is something I really look forward to.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2012, 08:00 PM
Doug in NC Doug in NC is offline
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15,000 miles on my 2011 X3 and no issues, other than the hesitation off the line, which seems to have finally gone away.

I've had 7 BMW's and find them to be reliable, although I think you need to be a car fanatic to own one. Something about being willing to pay the high cost for repairs in exchange for the best driving experience. I plan to drive BMW's as long as I can continue to afford to own them. A little DIY for brake jobs, and routine maintenance helps to keep the cost of ownership in check.
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  #24  
Old 12-19-2012, 02:50 PM
slambmw slambmw is offline
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I would avoid the Evoque with the history of problems with their brand. GLK would be rock solid, but smaller and consumes a lot of fuel. X3 should be ok and have not has a single problem after 6 months.
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  #25  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:42 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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The GLK gets a diesel for MY '13 which will improve fuel mileage a ton! For whatever reason BMW is reluctant to bring a diesel into the X1/X3 lines -- although they keep saying it will happen, no results. Now Audi's Q5 will also get a diesel as well -- and that one will be the same engine that is found in the Q7/T-egg/and Cayenne! A 240 hp 420 pound feet of torque sweetheart! Watch that one move out in the lighter Q5 body!
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