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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #51  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:45 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
So, what ThreeI wrote is absolutely correct.

The new SI B12 17 12 is again for "delay in engine response" with N52T / N55 Engine and 8HP45 Transmission to 03/31/12, and is a follow up to and replacement for the above SI B24 02 12, and the problem remains unfavorable EGS and DME software.

The fix then was ISTA/P 2.46.0 (or higher). Now it is ISTA/P 2.48.1 (or higher).

So, the "tip in" problem has now been documented, not once, but twice.
****, so does this mean if they reprogrammed me to ISTA/P 2.48.1 I have this fix?

If so, it doesn't do **** for takeoff.
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2012, 07:07 AM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is offline
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
****, so does this mean if they reprogrammed me to ISTA/P 2.48.1 I have this fix?

If so, it doesn't do **** for takeoff.
That is what BMW wants you to believe. If it still sucks, well, maybe a new 3rd SIB in 9 months...
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  #53  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:57 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
That is what BMW wants you to believe. If it still sucks, well, maybe a new 3rd SIB in 9 months...
and maybe a 4th, 5th?
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  #54  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:05 PM
ThreeI ThreeI is offline
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Just keeping everybody informed, I have driven about 200 miles since the update and everything is still working great with no hint of it going back as was before as it did with the "Global" update. It feels like it starts off in first gear instead of second now. As soon as you press on the gas, it goes with no hesitation at all. It also has improved the acceleration after you slow down and speed up again. I'm excited, this thing is actually FUN to drive now.
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  #55  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:32 PM
Raddius Raddius is offline
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Originally Posted by ThreeI View Post
Just keeping everybody informed, I have driven about 200 miles since the update and everything is still working great with no hint of it going back as was before as it did with the "Global" update. It feels like it starts off in first gear instead of second now. As soon as you press on the gas, it goes with no hesitation at all. It also has improved the acceleration after you slow down and speed up again. I'm excited, this thing is actually FUN to drive now.
Good to know. I have an appointment in January for maintenance and will have my SA apply the update as well.

Thanks for the info!
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  #56  
Old 12-19-2012, 06:40 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeI View Post
Just keeping everybody informed, I have driven about 200 miles since the update and everything is still working great with no hint of it going back as was before as it did with the "Global" update. It feels like it starts off in first gear instead of second now. As soon as you press on the gas, it goes with no hesitation at all. It also has improved the acceleration after you slow down and speed up again. I'm excited, this thing is actually FUN to drive now.
Thanks for the update. Not to burst your bubble, but sorry, I think it's still too early to tell. If it's been a month, I'll believe it.

(Don't get me wrong, I am still hoping it can be fixed)

Do keep us posted
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  #57  
Old 12-20-2012, 08:02 AM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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My car has a recall

First I heard about it, but my car is being recalled for a "re-coding" as the young female service attendant noted. She didn't know all the details, but something to do with the alarm and door closure and.. who knows. I am going in for an oil change and to replace a tire. I said I would do the re-code after Christmas. We'll see what this does.
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  #58  
Old 12-20-2012, 08:27 AM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is offline
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First I heard about it, but my car is being recalled for a "re-coding" as the young female service attendant noted. She didn't know all the details, but something to do with the alarm and door closure and.. who knows. I am going in for an oil change and to replace a tire. I said I would do the re-code after Christmas. We'll see what this does.
Can you ask them now what the SIB is for this issue?
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  #59  
Old 12-20-2012, 01:37 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Can you ask them now what the SIB is for this issue?
I will tomorrow.
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  #60  
Old 12-20-2012, 02:20 PM
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I will tomorrow.
Thanks.
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  #61  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:46 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Can the car be coded to start in first gear even when not in sport mode? I assume all 5's start in second when not in sport mode
What????

They don't. That's insane. Why would there be a 1st gear if they were "all to start in the 2nd"?

I drive mine in D only (hate the gear holding of the DS mode) and can assure you that it always starts in 1st no matter how slowly I step on it. That's what the 1st gear is designed to do.
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  #62  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:03 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
What????

They don't. That's insane. Why would there be a 1st gear if they were "all to start in the 2nd"?

I drive mine in D only (hate the gear holding of the DS mode) and can assure you that it always starts in 1st no matter how slowly I step on it. That's what the 1st gear is designed to do.
No, it starts in second.

In D/S it starts in first.
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  #63  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:10 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Maybe now I understand why you have a severe case of hesitation and a rough jerk. I know some 550-owners like Dunderhi also mentioned the 2nd (BUT maybe for a 400hp 550 it is more understandable). Not a case on mine 100%. I know the power curve very well and can recognize each gear with top precision (as I love the push into the seat and can feel how it weakens with each gear, thus reducing my joy). (Ticks me off when I come out of a turn in the 3rd, for example)

Maybe that gives you more grounds to demand a fix, Needs (and others). Simply state that you demand your 535 to start out in the 1st gear (otherwise, why the heck have it in the first place?) and take a new 535 for a ride and show them how it starts in the 1st. I have used the same demand-comparison tactic with CA door lock delay issue and got a fix that I wanted. The dealer even thanked me for using such method (as otherwise they would be dumbfounded and would have to argue and question me endlessly to both parties' dissatisfaction).
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Last edited by yogi799; 12-20-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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  #64  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:27 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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I can record a vid for you guys if that'd make it easier for you to troubleshoot.
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  #65  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:42 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
What????

They don't. That's insane. Why would there be a 1st gear if they were "all to start in the 2nd"?

I drive mine in D only (hate the gear holding of the DS mode) and can assure you that it always starts in 1st no matter how slowly I step on it. That's what the 1st gear is designed to do.
Many automatic cars do start off at 2nd by default, not just the F10. The 1st is there for more extreme conditions (towing, steep slopes, sports mode etc).

Have you done any software update on yours?

Last edited by douggie; 12-20-2012 at 07:45 PM.
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  #66  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:06 PM
jgscott987 jgscott987 is offline
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Starting off in 2nd gear is not the problem. Try it yourself- put the car in manual mode, in 2nd gear. It still starts off with plenty of power and no hesitation.
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  #67  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:10 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Originally Posted by douggie View Post
Have you done any software update on yours?
Yes, one, but not for any driving issues but rather sluggish comfort access locking. The update upgraded all modules and changed absolutely nothing in the way the car drives. It's always driven rather normally with a few minor complaints.

I'll shoot you the vids as I've always claimed that to properly identify the problem (and demand a fix) we must first be on the same freakin' page. I've always thought (see my old posts) that we are comparing apples to oranges in the way we describe our symptoms, which in turn has allowed BMW to never face a unified front (class-action suit, for example) and a huge battle. It is hard to document a jerk or hesitation on the video, but I will show you how mine starts in the 1st gear, always, as that may be a good start to your dilemmas.
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  #68  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:02 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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OK, here it is. Hope this acts as a definite proof. I might even start a new thread so ppl can find it more easily for future use.

Two moderate runs, one in D, one in DS. About half throttle on both (still with a nice push into the seat in the D mode which brings the best torque out of the motor ).

Here is the grid based on the video to confirm that both D and DS start out in the 1st gear.

GEAR KMH RPM

1st 20 2700
2nd 50 3700
3rd 60 3100
3rd 70 3500

The vid is being stabilized so hopefully the link will still work OK once that process is completed.



Good luck to all fighting a severe case of the 2nd gear on startup. As I said, that concept sounds insane, really and a major malfunction. F10 isn't a truck and doesn't tow anything, so there'd be absolutely no reason to design it to start in the 2nd gear and reserve the 1st for more load. What more load? More kids in the back? More iron suitcases in the trunk?

It'd be nice to see a similar vid for the 550.

PS. Remember, to avoid high revving in the 1st given some tremendous power, the D mode in my car simply upshifts very quickly (and virtually seamlessly... it is really brilliant engineering, I catch myself off guard not even realizing that, that's how smooth and lightninig-fast it can be!). I observe this very often, especially from under a stop sign when making a turn, by the time I am done turning (which takes no time), the car is already in 2nd). The RPMs probably don't even reach 2k in the 1st when the car upshifts IF you want a slow and slip-free take-off. At the same time, if I push it some more on take-off, I can feel the wheels fighting for grip in wet conditions in the 1st. They also do in the 2nd but with noticeably lesser loss of grip.


...

Last edited by yogi799; 12-21-2012 at 07:04 AM.
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  #69  
Old 12-21-2012, 07:42 AM
jgscott987 jgscott987 is offline
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Yogi,

That's a great video and very helpful, but I'm not clear how it shows that the car starts in 1st. How do we know that we're not looking at 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gear?

If the car does in fact normally start in 2nd gear, I wouldn't say that 1st is reserved for heavy loads, I'd say that 1st is reserved for when you stomp on the gas.

I'm not taking sides on the 1st, 2nd debate- I don't have any meaningful evidence either way. Given BMW's hyper-focus on fuel economy, I tend to lean toward the start-in-second camp though. With normal driving, starting in second would improve fuel economy. Dropping down to first on full-throttle allows for impressive 0-60 numbers as well.
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  #70  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:10 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Originally Posted by jgscott987 View Post
That's a great video and very helpful, but I'm not clear how it shows that the car starts in 1st. How do we know that we're not looking at 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gear?
Because RPMs would be different. Given the speed and RPM, you know exactly what gear you are in (I listed 4 numbers above the video).
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  #71  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:21 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Dropping down to first on full-throttle allows for impressive 0-60 numbers as well.
How would the car know if you're about to race someone and need a good 0-60 time? It has no idea what you're about to do.

It can't be switching gears as you stomp on the throttle on take-off! BUT this is debatable, I suppose and I would like the 550 owners to chip in... as they claim there is a jerk when that happens and maybe this is the same jerk Needs and others are experiencing on their early builds 535 (mine is August '11)...

More than anything, this would be a safety issue. Imagine wanting to gun it on the left turn while you're in the middle of a busy intersection waiting for your turn (with oncoming traffic). The car has to be in the right gear rather than changing it while another car is slamming into you. So many problem with that concept, unless 1st gear is completely disabled in D on your models (which would still be insane as I said above, for different reasons, #1 being reduced performance and #2 safety as well (ie. slower takeoff when needed).
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  #72  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:31 AM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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easy way to check if yogi's car starts in 1st is when he starts accelerating in D, flip it in DS and hit "-" to see if it does downshift to 1st. If he has sport auto you could just hit the "-" paddle instead of DS
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Last edited by Kar Don; 12-21-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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  #73  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:34 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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I wanted to do this and almost did but I could not shift while taking the video (but thought the vid is already proof enough given the RPM and speed, not sure where all the doubts are coming from...).

Update:

Here it is for the doubters....

Compare the speed and rpms with the data above my first vid, specifically 20 kmh in 1st vs 2nd and 50 kmh in 2nd

GEAR KMH RPM

1st 20 2700
2nd 50 3700
3rd 60 3100
3rd 70 3500


..

Last edited by yogi799; 12-21-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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  #74  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:01 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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  #75  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:36 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is online now
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Find out what gearbox is in your car and check out the ZF info on their German site, it makes a lot of things clear.
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