Fully loaded 328i vs. Barebone 335i?

Originally Posted by krash

Actually, it's really remarkable that the 335 practically gets the same gas mileage as the 328, but has 2 additional cylinders, 45 lbs more max torque, and 60 more HP.

I found that :

A-Real world, it's a decent gap in MPG. I took both cars and ran them on the same loop to compare, not 100% scientific but pretty close. I got 35.5 in the N55(8at) and 39 in the N20(6mt). I am pretty sure an N55 6mt might get a bit less than an 8at.
B-The power difference is not as large as advertised, both engines underrated, the 328 just more so. This has been shown on the dyno a handful of times.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I found that :

A-Real world, it's a decent gap in MPG. I took both cars and ran them on the same loop to compare, not 100% scientific but pretty close. I got 35.5 in the N55(8at) and 39 in the N20(6mt). I am pretty sure an N55 6mt might get a bit less than an 8at.
B-The power difference is not as large as advertised, both engines underrated, the 328 just more so. This has been shown on the dyno a handful of times.

I guess different people will interpret this differently. Only 3.5 MPG difference is really remarkable when considering that you get 45 lbs more max torque and 60 more HP with the 335.

You basically get 25% more HP with the N55, and the N20 only gives you less than 10% better gas mileage.

Now, with all that said, there is nothing wrong with the N20. It's a great engine, and I'd be perfectly happy with a 328.

What about reliability?

Probably hard to say, since the N20 is so new...

In Los Angeles where these cars are pretty common I like the (small) standout of the 335 as well with the dual pipes. The same way people gravitate to the M-Sport also to differentiate the car from all the others out there a bit.

Originally Posted by Jokerswld34

The n55 is not nearly as impressive and without all the options, you'll be disappointed.t

The N55 is one of the best engines currently available for any make. Wards voted it one of the 10 Best engines.

Don't listen to the naysayers ! It's even better than the N54 and far more fuel efficient ! And unlike the N54, there have been no HPFP or fuel injector issues.

Originally Posted by krash

I guess different people will interpret this differently. Only 3.5 MPG difference is really remarkable when considering that you get 45 lbs more max torque and 60 more HP with the 335.

You basically get 25% more HP with the N55, and the N20 only gives you less than 10% better gas mileage.

Now, with all that said, there is nothing wrong with the N20. It's a great engine, and I'd be perfectly happy with a 328.

Wheel hp is what matters, not crank ratings. wheel hp is 10-15% apart, about 240-250 for the N20 on a Dynojet and the N55 at about 270-275. That is the same amount they are separated by MPG.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

Wheel hp is what matters, not crank ratings. wheel hp is 10-15% apart, about 240-250 for the N20 on a Dynojet and the N55 at about 270-275. That is the same amount they are separated by MPG.

I question your numbers when BMW says the N20 is 240 hp at the crank.

Originally Posted by WaxComb

I question your numbers when BMW says the N20 is 240 hp at the crank.

It's well known that the N20 is underrated by BMW

Originally Posted by otonimus

It's well known that the N20 is underrated by BMW

It's well known that the N55 is underrated by BMW too.

Originally Posted by WaxComb

I question your numbers when BMW says the N20 is 240 hp at the crank.

I question your ability to be in the know

I dyno'd my car the minute the break in was over as well as all the tuners and online magazines like Insideline.

They are all posted on Youtube and posted countless times on this forum when there has been a N20 vs N55 debate.

Here is a good link comparing the dyno results of the N20, N54 and N55:

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature..._dyno_results/

N54>n55

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I found that :

A-Real world, it's a decent gap in MPG. I took both cars and ran them on the same loop to compare, not 100% scientific but pretty close. I got 35.5 in the N55(8at) and 39 in the N20(6mt). I am pretty sure an N55 6mt might get a bit less than an 8at.
B-The power difference is not as large as advertised, both engines underrated, the 328 just more so. This has been shown on the dyno a handful of times.

Not personal experience, but using EPA numbers as a guide the N20 gets better mpg with the 6MT than with the 8AT and the N55 gets better mileage with the 8AT than with the 6MT. This makes intuitive sense to me, because historically the power of a four banger is better utilized by a manual transmission.

Since the vast, vast majority of N20 328i's are going to be fitted with the 8AT and the same for the N55 335i's it makes the real world mpg performance difference considerably less significant.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

I question your ability to be in the know

I dyno'd my car the minute the break in was over as well as all the tuners and online magazines like Insideline.

They are all posted on Youtube and posted countless times on this forum when there has been a N20 vs N55 debate.

Funny that it's only InsideLine (Edmunds.com) gets the 240->250 in a car provided by BMW in February in Southern California. Everywhere else is 222 hp to 233 hp.

Originally Posted by The X Men

Here is a good link comparing the dyno results of the N20, N54 and N55:

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature..._dyno_results/

It's funny, it's the lowest Dynojet dyno I have seen for an F30 N20 and they are the only source to not declare the N20 underrated. How do you explain when the dyno's of the ATS which is rated and SAE verified to be 272 at the crank, equals but does not better than the N20 which is rated at 240. That is the very definition of underrating lol.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Not personal experience, but using EPA numbers as a guide the N20 gets better mpg with the 6MT than with the 8AT and the N55 gets better mileage with the 8AT than with the 6MT. This makes intuitive sense to me, because historically the power of a four banger is better utilized by a manual transmission.

Since the vast, vast majority of N20 328i's are going to be fitted with the 8AT and the same for the N55 335i's it makes the real world mpg performance difference considerably less significant.

I tested an 8AT n55 against my 6mt N20. I could have skewed the results more in the N20's favor with the N55 being a 6mt.

I do not care what most buyers buy, I am an enthusiast and have a manual. The N20 compared to the N55, clearly has a 10-15% OR greater(when transmission is factored) MPG advantage, which is in line with the power disadvantage. So nothing earth shattering.

Originally Posted by WaxComb

Funny that it's only InsideLine (Edmunds.com) gets the 240->250 in a car provided by BMW in February in Southern California. Everywhere else is 222 hp to 233 hp.

Really, everywhere else?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cS2nj3PjYUA


I have about 20 dyno pulls on a Superflo now. From the tuners to other vids I have seen posted and my own experience, people state pretty clearly that the N20 is underrated.

You mention the Insideline dyno like it's a conspiracy.

I like how they test the N20 and the ATS 2.0 which is SAE verified at the rating of 272hp at the crank and the N20 made the same or 1-2hp MORE.

Any of you 335 owners ever take your car in for service and get a 328 as a loaner...any of you find yourself saying "Man, I wished I had saved a few bucks and gotten the 328?"

Ahh NO

Originally Posted by cblandin

Any of you 335 owners ever take your car in for service and get a 328 as a loaner...any of you find yourself saying "Man, I wished I had saved a few bucks and gotten the 328?"

no. the 335 is easily worth the 4k more over the 328. but the 328 is an awesome car

Originally Posted by cblandin

Any of you 335 owners ever take your car in for service and get a 328 as a loaner...any of you find yourself saying "Man, I wished I had saved a few bucks and gotten the 328?"

Just the opposite - I couldn't wait to get my 335 back.

Originally Posted by kmorgan_260

Just the opposite - I couldn't wait to get my 335 back.

What is that car in your sig? A kit car or something? Are you going to be getting an F30?

BJ

Originally Posted by cblandin

Any of you 335 owners ever take your car in for service and get a 328 as a loaner...any of you find yourself saying "Man, I wished I had saved a few bucks and gotten the 328?"

Look, the 335i is a nice car, nothing wrong with it at all.

Thing is, if there was no 335i, all the 335i people would be drooling all over their 328i's and telling the world what a great car it is. As currently constituted on the F30, the 328i is a fantastic car. For those that need a bit more power (and I mean a tiny bit more in realworld conditions) the 335i is an inexpensive option for those who want it.

Doesn't mean that the 328i is an inferior car. Just means that the 335i is a touch more.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Look, the 335i is a nice car, nothing wrong with it at all.

Thing is, if there was no 335i, all the 335i people would be drooling all over their 328i's and telling the world what a great car it is. As currently constituted on the F30, the 328i is a fantastic car. For those that need a bit more power (and I mean a tiny bit more in realworld conditions) the 335i is an inexpensive option for those who want it.

Doesn't mean that the 328i is an inferior car. Just means that the 335i is a touch more.

BJ

I suppose it really comes down to what you prioritize. If you value dollars, mileage, or perhaps lighter weight more highly than power and the smooth straight 6 (and a few other 335i specifics) then the 328i could be the better car "for you"...and vice-versa.

Reminds me a little bit of the whole 330i vs ZHP 330i vs M3 situation in the E46 realm and 528i vs 540i sport vs M5 discussions in the E39 world.

I don't think the 328i is an inferior car. If it's a choice between a loaded 328i and a stripper 335i, I'd go with the 328 all the away. Even though the 335i is much more powerful, I'd doubt you'd notice the difference in everyday driving. In my car, the only time I pass 4000 rpm is when I'm stop light drag racing, passing on the freeway, or driving on a canyon road. Everyday the 328 has more than enough power.

Originally Posted by kmorgan_260

Just the opposite - I couldn't wait to get my 335 back.

The gap between the E90 328i and the E90 335i is the Grand Canyon compared to the street puddle gap between the F30 versions.

Originally Posted by cblandin

I suppose it really comes down to what you prioritize. If you value dollars, mileage, or perhaps lighter weight more highly than power and the smooth straight 6 (and a few other 335i specifics) then the 328i could be the better car "for you"...and vice-versa.

Reminds me a little bit of the whole 330i vs ZHP 330i vs M3 situation in the E46 realm and 528i vs 540i sport vs M5 discussions in the E39 world.

I owned an E93 328i and then an E90 328i for 6 consecutive years and I don't know what this "smooth" comment is about the 6 cylinder engine in those cars because the performance was anything but smooth.

I could care less what the power curve looks like on a computer. All I know is that when I stepped on the gas in those E9X cars it didn't move very fast, it shifted inconsistently and very abruptly, and there was nothing remarkable about it's performance. Conversely, when I step on the F30, the thing flies and the shifting is so smooth and effortless you barely even know it's taking place.

I agree completely on the E46 vs. E90 debates that now turn into the F30 vs. E90 debates. It's like a reviewer comes out with a couple of callouts and suddenly it becomes the smoking gun. Ah, the engine isn't as "smooth". Oh, the materials are "inferior". Enough with the jealous nitpicking already.

BJ