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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)

E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #451  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:42 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Location: Greensboro, NC
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elektron82 View Post
Hi all.

I just bought an 05 545i a little over a week ago with 76k miles. Its an automatic. The dealer thought it had the sport package but I found out via research that it actually does not. Because of that I didn't think much about the rough shifting it had on test drive. At this point I am starting to notice it more because I am not "getting used to" the car and getting smoother technique.

I have a lot of dead zone in the gas pedal, about the first 10 degrees has almost no effect. Then it picks up and causes a "surge" of torque at once after pressing down far enough.

The other thing I noticed was that I can't smoothly stop the car. The downshifts are noticeable no matter how much braking is applied. Once about to stop it seems like it downshifts and then the idle suddenly drops. If i don't time my foot letting up on the brake pedal carefully then the car ends up bucking wildly.

I don't have any slams or sounds going on. I don't notice any hiccups or hesitation in any gear. Its just when starting off, braking, and especially when coming to a stop it has issues.

Does this sound like the mechatronics unit is starting to fail? If so I am thinking to do fluid/filter service and save up for a different car. Of course on the other hand I feel confident I could replace it myself and if the car drove nicely afterwords then it might be worth it to me. I paid 18 for the car. I think I will start with either a test drive of another 545 or have an experienced tech confirm it.

Thanks.

The first 10 degrees of pedal movement not doing much is the same on mine--google BMW throttle tip in and you'll find tons on it. It's a common issue but seems to be kind of an "is what it is" thing with no options to improve it. Some say you can reset "throttle adaptations" (google it) and it will help for a while anyways.

I can still barely smoothly stop mine as well. There's a transmission software bug where it shifts down from 2nd to 1st right before you stop, making it jerk at a horrible time. Try this: drive it in manual mode, when coming to a stop and downshifting manually, don't use 1st. Stop with it in 2nd and see if it's smooth then. My guess is it will be. If you don't downshift at all, it will shift down to 3rd for you before you stop (but not go any lower until you tell it to). Try that also and see if it's smoother.

There's a software update that fixes the issue (I think it basically just doesn't use 1st unless you're in sport mode) that may be an option for you to consider if stopping in 2nd via manual mode helps.

Sounds like normal stuff to me, not a mechatronics failure. I wouldn't tell anyone you paid that much

Last edited by schpenxel; 11-08-2012 at 04:05 PM.
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  #452  
Old 11-09-2012, 04:55 AM
elektron82 elektron82 is offline
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Location: Florida
 
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Thumbs up Sigh of Relief

Muchas Gracias amigo.

That puts my mind very much at ease!

I did notice exactly what you describe in manual mode. I can start nicely in 2nd or 3rd as well as stop better. As an update I also noticed that its a whole lot smoother in normal mode when the car is cold and I am starting off in the morning. As it warms up it gets gradually harsher and with more throttle tip-in.

I will definitely look into the software update as I would like it to act like it does in manual mode. I am also thinking the flush and filter is still a good preventive maintenance measure.

For the price yeah I do feel I paid a bit much but my philosophy when buying from a dealer is instead of pushing for lowest price I usually ask for other extras in case I need or find out something is wrong. Oh and yeah I do lie about the price especially to my Indian co-workers because they get so jealous.
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  #453  
Old 11-09-2012, 05:09 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elektron82 View Post
Muchas Gracias amigo.

That puts my mind very much at ease!

I did notice exactly what you describe in manual mode. I can start nicely in 2nd or 3rd as well as stop better. As an update I also noticed that its a whole lot smoother in normal mode when the car is cold and I am starting off in the morning. As it warms up it gets gradually harsher and with more throttle tip-in.

I will definitely look into the software update as I would like it to act like it does in manual mode. I am also thinking the flush and filter is still a good preventive maintenance measure.

For the price yeah I do feel I paid a bit much but my philosophy when buying from a dealer is instead of pushing for lowest price I usually ask for other extras in case I need or find out something is wrong. Oh and yeah I do lie about the price especially to my Indian co-workers because they get so jealous.
One thing that makes everything smoother when cold (for me anyways) is that the torque converter stays unlocked 100% of the time until the transmission fluid gets up to around 100*F. You'll probably barely feel any shifts at all when it's unlocked--but it locks a large portion of the time after it gets warmed up. This is to get the fluid warmed up as quick as possible.
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  #454  
Old 11-09-2012, 09:52 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elektron82 View Post
Muchas Gracias amigo.

That puts my mind very much at ease!

I did notice exactly what you describe in manual mode. I can start nicely in 2nd or 3rd as well as stop better. As an update I also noticed that its a whole lot smoother in normal mode when the car is cold and I am starting off in the morning. As it warms up it gets gradually harsher and with more throttle tip-in.

I will definitely look into the software update as I would like it to act like it does in manual mode. I am also thinking the flush and filter is still a good preventive maintenance measure.

For the price yeah I do feel I paid a bit much but my philosophy when buying from a dealer is instead of pushing for lowest price I usually ask for other extras in case I need or find out something is wrong. Oh and yeah I do lie about the price especially to my Indian co-workers because they get so jealous.
Just saw this--I would just change the oil / filter, not flush. Use ZF's fluid. It's not worth the risk of using something else that may or may not be ok in the long run.

Maybe swap out the fluid twice so you change most of it (just filter once).

And again, make sure the adaptations are reset after changing it

also--I agree, definitely change it. The EDS solenoids begin to leak/fail in transmissions where it's not changed past 100K miles. They aren't too horrible to replace, but I've never heard of a shop that would actually do it that way (I DIY'd mine)

Last edited by schpenxel; 11-09-2012 at 09:56 AM.
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  #455  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:02 AM
Graf545 Graf545 is offline
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So the bottom line is:

If you E06 with steptronic transmission experiences the following symptoms: when car is warmed up, there is a slight RPM 'flutter hiccup' around 37 MPH & 1,700 RPMs, which does not seem to occur at other speeds or RPMs, and sometimes also has a slight delay after shifting in Reverse.

Then the cause is most likely transmission ZF mechatronics solenoids which can be replaced and then needs a computer update BEFORE driving ANY distance.

So, don't waste time and money with other potential suggested causes such as: bad gas; MAF sensor; 02 sensors; fly by wire; fuel filter; CCV; Carbon buildup; tourque converter; spark plugs; VANOS, computer software updates; re-train the "learned" transmission with the 30 second pedal to floor reset; transmission control module, etc...

If above were the cause, then issue would likely occur across many speeds / RPM's. This mechatroinc solenoid issue is specific to this RPM and speed range.

Ignoring this may lead to transmission fluid leak and failure.

How many BMW's (E06 and other) are impacted by this?

The cost to fix is ~$4,000?

How do we get BWMNA to issue a recall?

We had Beemers since 1990 and this is not a plus when we consider our next upgrate within a year.
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  #456  
Old 11-19-2012, 08:21 AM
Graf545 Graf545 is offline
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oops, E60, not E06
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  #457  
Old 11-19-2012, 09:44 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Cost to fix is < $1,000 for solenoids
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  #458  
Old 11-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Graf545 Graf545 is offline
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Does anyone know a good Indy in the Boston south shore area to change mechatronics solenoids? Thanks
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  #459  
Old 12-08-2012, 07:55 AM
aiwapro aiwapro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graf545 View Post
Does anyone know a good Indy in the Boston south shore area to change mechatronics solenoids? Thanks
Or in the Detroit area?
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  #460  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:38 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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I am facing the same issue and the problem is inside the transmission: TCU, transmission control unit needs replacement but BMw

will not work on the transmission. They want to replace the whole transmission for a tag price of $7,000. If u r under warranty, u r in luck but in my case, I have to come up with the cash to get it replaced. I also complained to BMW of America . They won't do anything and my car has only 76,000 miles. Go figure.
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  #461  
Old 12-23-2012, 12:30 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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You can buy a replacement mechatronics unit with TCU for I think around $1500. Any independent BMW mechanic should be able to install it.

BMW is taking advantage of you.

(From thectsc.com)

Last edited by schpenxel; 12-23-2012 at 12:31 PM.
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  #462  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:01 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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Thanks for the advice. What does that component do for the transmission and can I trust a local Indy to reinstall it? Merry Christmas to u n to all at the forum.
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  #463  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:04 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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By the way, my transmission is an automatic.
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  #464  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:06 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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Can bad struts cause brand new tires to wear out?
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  #465  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:09 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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I've got a long reply I'll post shortly that should cover everything you'll ever want to know, lol
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  #466  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:19 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Basically, in old school automatic transmissions, a part called the valve body used a few variables like engine speed, throttle position and vehicle speed to determine what gear the transmission needed to be in and when to change gears. It would open and close different hydraulic circuits to turn different things (bands and clutch packs) on and off to get different gear ratios and ultimately gave us the automatic transmission. This was all done with no electronics and quite honestly blows my mind that it actually worked--it all worked on hydraulic pressure

Now, the bands/clutch packs are still controlled by oil pressure, but that oil pressure and what circuits are on/off are controlled by solenoids inside the valve body. The solenoids are controlled by the TCU (transmission control unit).

In the E60, the valve body, solenoids and TCU are all in one assembly called the mechatronics unit (I assume it's derived from mechanical valve body and electronics control spliced together or something like that).

On my E60 I had issues with the solenoids no longer sealing correctly--this is very common, however, BMW refuses to replace any individual components and will almost always only replace the entire transmission or entire mechatronics assembly, even when a few hundred dollars in solenoids would have fixed the issue. The video below shows me pulling the mechatronics unit and changing the solenoids. The black plastic piece in the video towards the end has the TCU built into it--you can kind of see how it connects to the solenoid once put back together.

Ultimately, if I could do it in my driveway on jack stands, I'm sure any decent mechanic could do it.

Just curious--what exactly is wrong with yours that makes them say the TCU is bad?

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  #467  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:23 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay25 View Post
Can bad struts cause brand new tires to wear out?
What kind of wear pattern? Front or rear or both? Did you get an alignment when you replaced the tires? If so, do you have a print out of the specs from after they were done?
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  #468  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:55 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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When I am driving sometimes, I got a the transmission malfunction that comes on the dash board then the vehicle lost power. I have to pull over, turn it off n turn it back on and everything is fine.
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  #469  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:57 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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Both, front and rear. Uneven wear.
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  #470  
Old 12-24-2012, 10:59 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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I did not get an alignment n I didn't go to the dealer for that. Now I know that I have an alignment.
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  #471  
Old 12-24-2012, 11:26 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay25 View Post
When I am driving sometimes, I got a the transmission malfunction that comes on the dash board then the vehicle lost power. I have to pull over, turn it off n turn it back on and everything is fine.
Mine was just the solenoids when it did that. Did they give you any info on what codes it gave?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay25 View Post
Both, front and rear. Uneven wear.
Probably bad alignment
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  #472  
Old 12-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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76166 Transmission Faulty, Under EGS 4F85 ratio monitoring. They checked for leaks, no leaks.
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  #473  
Old 12-26-2012, 05:57 AM
Jay25 Jay25 is offline
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Schpenxel,
I posted the code that was given to me by BMW. Any idea what to make of it? Thx
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  #474  
Old 12-27-2012, 07:34 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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I'll look at it when I get home tomorrow--but I THINK mine gave the same ratio monitoring error prior to replacing the solenoids
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  #475  
Old 01-16-2013, 03:27 PM
chuckecoleman chuckecoleman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stjoelax07 View Post
So for the past several months I have noticed that when my 5 gets between 35 and 40 mph it starts surging, like it starts loosing power but gains it back, and it only happens within 35-40 and just steady driving. I took it to the dealer, and there are no codes present, the service manager, tech's and the advisor all took a ride and felt it each time. They said they contacted BMW NA and that they wont do anything, unless it throws a code, but when I call them(BMWNA) to talk(complain) about it they tell me it has to have a code as well, and yet I still ask them why I am driving around their car that has issues that they wont fix, and all they can say is sorry until a code comes up. Has anyone had any issues like this with the surging transmission, or know how to talk to Customer Relations so that something does happen? It's just really annoying driving around a car that has issues, and they wont stand behind their product.
I had a small leak on my Tranny and after about 1/2 to 1 qt leaked out the surging stoped. Well it stopped until I had the trans serviced. My mechanic said that surging is caused because of a leak in one of the internal seals in the valve body. Not sure but it I would have to see a scematic to tell for sure if that makes sense or not. Good luck
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