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  #1  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:05 PM
gnawbone gnawbone is offline
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Excessive Road Force - tire issue

I have a 2011 328i x-drive that has developed this weird "vibration", if that is what you would call it. The car drives beautifully at speeds less than approx. 50 mph but once I get up to around 55+ I get this pulsing, rhythmic vibration that I can feel and hear.

Mysteriously, nobody at the BMW dealership can feel it or hear it but they did, in the process of balancing each of the tires/wheels come up with what they believe is causing the "vibration" issue I'm having - that, of course, they do not acknowledge ........ The report I got for the "nothing wrong" with my car visit was that my tires (all four) have "excessive road force" readings. Apparently this is some kind of sidewall pressure measurement they can make while balancing the tires. I was told that they would like to get this "measurement" under 15 lbs but my tires have readings that range from 28 to 46 and that is "probably the cause of my vibration" (not their vibration, of course because they can't feel/hear it).

So my service advisor tried to deal with Continental to get 2 of the 4 replaced (?) and was eventually turned down.

So, here's my dilemma, according to BMW there isn't anything wrong (they can't feel the vib) and the tires are the problem (I know ...) and the tire company won't stand behind their tires - they told the SA that it was a convenience issue. So now I've got a BMW with 15,000 miles on it that has a rhythmic, droning vibration/sound like a 1982 Chevy Malibu and the problem (that I don't have - I guess) is known by the dealer and neither the dealer nor the tire manufacturer will stand behind the product.

My questions for you folks; Have you heard of this issue? Do you have any suggestions or have actually successfully handled this issue yourself? I plan to go to the dealer Saturday and talk to the guy I bought the car from and see if he is willing to let me go as a future customer of if he will try to help me get a resolution.

Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago we bought new tires for my wife's Toyota van and the thing vibrated like some kind of Chrysler product. I took it back to the tire store, they balanced the tires, still vibrated. I took it back to have it looked at again and they told me that they checked the "road force" on the tires and 3 of them were out of specs and that they had ordered 3 new tires to replace them. Got the 3 new tires - problem solved at no charge to me. This is a small business in a small town with significantly (gigantic understatement) fewer resources than BMW.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:21 AM
Leekay07 Leekay07 is offline
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Why are you spamming?


Your tires are covered for the first 2/32 of the tread for vibrations or 12 months your tires come with a tread depth of 9/32 for free replacement
or 4 years 60,000 miles pro rated.

OP I have had this issue on my BMW people here don't seem to have heard of it. Anyway call continental tires and tell them that your tires have zero impact damage and each tire has 8/32 tread depth. Tell the rep that you have writen prove from BMW of the excessive road force and complaints of vibrations at 65mph.

I recently had all 4 of mine replaced at 75% of the cost of new tires. If you can you should look for a tire center that deals with the continentals that will help you. You will have to pay the mount and balance but if you get the tire shop to agree to 8/32 they will replace them all for free and your only expected to pay mount and balance.

PDF
http://continentaltire.custhelp.com/...ited+Warranty+


FYI the reason it happens at speed is because the tires are made up of bands and thes bans expand through out the tire at speed and during assembly they maybe twisted and so when they expand they cause the wheel to wobble I bet if you go beyond 80mph it settles down.

Hope it helps
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Last edited by Leekay07; 01-02-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2013, 05:31 AM
gnawbone gnawbone is offline
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re: Excessive Road Force - Tire Issue

Leekay07 - I don't know why you said, "Why are you spamming?" ....??

As for the warranty; I'm past the 12 months (16 actually) and the tread depth, according to the SA, is 8/32.

Thanks for the link, that is the good news - the bad news is, if I'm reading this correctly is as follows:

Under section 5; What Is Not Covered:

Ride Vibration: Any ride/vibration complaint after the first 2/32nds
(1.6 mm) of an inch of treadwear or 12 months of service,
whichever comes first.

I guess, this means Continental can tell me to go jump in the lake ....
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2013, 05:39 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnawbone View Post
I guess, this means Continental can tell me to go jump in the lake ....

Naw. Means you warranty has expired.

Would the 2 tires BMW wanted to replace be.....rear tires?
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  #5  
Old 01-02-2013, 07:06 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnawbone View Post
Leekay07 - I don't know why you said, "Why are you spamming?" ....??
It wasn't addressed to you, but to the post immediately above his, which was one of about 15 identical one word posts from the same person.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:25 AM
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thekurgan thekurgan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
It wasn't addressed to you, but to the post immediately above his, which was one of about 15 identical one word posts from the same person.
I have no idea what you're talking about here. I don't see any one-word posts.
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:28 AM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about here. I don't see any one-word posts.
mods deleted it.

the user was posting "interesting" to a whole bunch of threads, embedding an image url.
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:32 AM
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thekurgan thekurgan is offline
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Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
mods deleted it.

the user was posting "interesting" to a whole bunch of threads, embedding an image url.
Snap, thanks, sorry Zooks, looked weird as I never saw the spammer.
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  #9  
Old 01-02-2013, 10:11 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
Snap, thanks, sorry Zooks, looked weird as I never saw the spammer.
No problem. I only saw him because when I logged in this morning there were 2 pages of new posts since my last visit yesterday, all from the same person at the same time.
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Prior 33 years of cars: 1967 BelAir wagon / 1968 LeMans Tempest / 1970 Mustang Mach 1 / 1972 El Dorado / 1978 Corvette (kept until first Bronco) / 1981 Subaru GL wagon AWD / 1983 s10 Blazer 4x4 (big mistake) / 1985 Bronco 4x4 / 1996 Bronco 4x4 / 2004 Passat 4motion
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  #10  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnawbone View Post
I have a 2011 328i x-drive that has developed this weird "vibration", if that is what you would call it. The car drives beautifully at speeds less than approx. 50 mph but once I get up to around 55+ I get this pulsing, rhythmic vibration that I can feel and hear.

Mysteriously, nobody at the BMW dealership can feel it or hear it but they did, in the process of balancing each of the tires/wheels come up with what they believe is causing the "vibration" issue I'm having - that, of course, they do not acknowledge ........ The report I got for the "nothing wrong" with my car visit was that my tires (all four) have "excessive road force" readings. Apparently this is some kind of sidewall pressure measurement they can make while balancing the tires. I was told that they would like to get this "measurement" under 15 lbs but my tires have readings that range from 28 to 46 and that is "probably the cause of my vibration" (not their vibration, of course because they can't feel/hear it).

So my service advisor tried to deal with Continental to get 2 of the 4 replaced (?) and was eventually turned down.

So, here's my dilemma, according to BMW there isn't anything wrong (they can't feel the vib) and the tires are the problem (I know ...) and the tire company won't stand behind their tires - they told the SA that it was a convenience issue. So now I've got a BMW with 15,000 miles on it that has a rhythmic, droning vibration/sound like a 1982 Chevy Malibu and the problem (that I don't have - I guess) is known by the dealer and neither the dealer nor the tire manufacturer will stand behind the product.

My questions for you folks; Have you heard of this issue? Do you have any suggestions or have actually successfully handled this issue yourself? I plan to go to the dealer Saturday and talk to the guy I bought the car from and see if he is willing to let me go as a future customer of if he will try to help me get a resolution.

Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago we bought new tires for my wife's Toyota van and the thing vibrated like some kind of Chrysler product. I took it back to the tire store, they balanced the tires, still vibrated. I took it back to have it looked at again and they told me that they checked the "road force" on the tires and 3 of them were out of specs and that they had ordered 3 new tires to replace them. Got the 3 new tires - problem solved at no charge to me. This is a small business in a small town with significantly (gigantic understatement) fewer resources than BMW.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thanks!
BMW owns a vibrating tire issue only for the first 2,000 miles.

The tire warranty that came on the DVD with your car then applies.

Lots of complaints with tires failing road force balance here ...... I think BMWs are quite sensitive to this.

I had OEM tires dealer replaced on my new F10 under 2,000 miles for failing road force balance but at 15,000 miles I'm sorry to think you may own this problem.
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  #11  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:51 PM
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pointandgo pointandgo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnawbone View Post
I have a 2011 328i x-drive that has developed this weird "vibration", if that is what you would call it. The car drives beautifully at speeds less than approx. 50 mph but once I get up to around 55+ I get this pulsing, rhythmic vibration that I can feel and hear.

Mysteriously, nobody at the BMW dealership can feel it or hear it but they did, in the process of balancing each of the tires/wheels come up with what they believe is causing the "vibration" issue I'm having - that, of course, they do not acknowledge ........ The report I got for the "nothing wrong" with my car visit was that my tires (all four) have "excessive road force" readings. Apparently this is some kind of sidewall pressure measurement they can make while balancing the tires. I was told that they would like to get this "measurement" under 15 lbs but my tires have readings that range from 28 to 46 and that is "probably the cause of my vibration" (not their vibration, of course because they can't feel/hear it).

So my service advisor tried to deal with Continental to get 2 of the 4 replaced (?) and was eventually turned down.

So, here's my dilemma, according to BMW there isn't anything wrong (they can't feel the vib) and the tires are the problem (I know ...) and the tire company won't stand behind their tires - they told the SA that it was a convenience issue. So now I've got a BMW with 15,000 miles on it that has a rhythmic, droning vibration/sound like a 1982 Chevy Malibu and the problem (that I don't have - I guess) is known by the dealer and neither the dealer nor the tire manufacturer will stand behind the product.

My questions for you folks; Have you heard of this issue? Do you have any suggestions or have actually successfully handled this issue yourself? I plan to go to the dealer Saturday and talk to the guy I bought the car from and see if he is willing to let me go as a future customer of if he will try to help me get a resolution.

Interestingly, a couple of weeks ago we bought new tires for my wife's Toyota van and the thing vibrated like some kind of Chrysler product. I took it back to the tire store, they balanced the tires, still vibrated. I took it back to have it looked at again and they told me that they checked the "road force" on the tires and 3 of them were out of specs and that they had ordered 3 new tires to replace them. Got the 3 new tires - problem solved at no charge to me. This is a small business in a small town with significantly (gigantic understatement) fewer resources than BMW.

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thanks!
Certainly BMW NA has an acceptable RFV value limit and apparently these tires exceeded. I would certainly say that 46 (lbs) is not acceptable. GM, Ford demand about 16 lbs to give you a point of reference.

Conti is being a bit "hard ass" over this and if these are the original tires on the car, I would call Conti Consumer Relations myself and plead your case. Nothing to lose.
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  #12  
Old 01-02-2013, 05:58 PM
CALLAWAY845 CALLAWAY845 is offline
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Hey Gnawbone...one quick question, does the droning sound come from the car in general, or from a specific quadrant of the car? I once had a very similar sounding issue with my X5, the droning vibration would start at around 70, and disappear around 90. I had it into the dealer twice, and my indy once, to no avail. I took a chance and brought it into a third person (another dealer) and their diagnostic guy nailed it down to a wheel bearing (rear passenger side). This wheel bearing issue presented in a very atypical way. Something to consider...good luck in your pursuit of this issue
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:02 PM
gnawbone gnawbone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Naw. Means you warranty has expired.

Would the 2 tires BMW wanted to replace be.....rear tires?

He didn't say, he just said they'd try to get Continental to replace the 2 worst tires.

Have you had something similar relating to your rear tires?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:10 PM
gnawbone gnawbone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALLAWAY845 View Post
Hey Gnawbone...one quick question, does the droning sound come from the car in general, or from a specific quadrant of the car? I once had a very similar sounding issue with my X5, the droning vibration would start at around 70, and disappear around 90. I had it into the dealer twice, and my indy once, to no avail. I took a chance and brought it into a third person (another dealer) and their diagnostic guy nailed it down to a wheel bearing (rear passenger side). This wheel bearing issue presented in a very atypical way. Something to consider...good luck in your pursuit of this issue
The droning sound seems to be a general, whole car sound. I can feel the vibration in the steering wheel, gas pedal, and center console armrest. I'll "listen" carefully tomorrow when I go to work.

I can make the rhythmic vibration stop by moving the steering wheel slightly left or right. The vibration only stops for a few seconds until it "syncs" itself back to the pulsing feeling again. The droning sound does not stop - it just doesn't pulse.

Last edited by gnawbone; 01-02-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:32 PM
Leekay07 Leekay07 is offline
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Umm Actually I was able to get continental to replace my tires at 15,000 miles but it was within 6 month of buying them. So maybe calling them is your best option. Tell them that its been an ongoing issue for almost a year but the dealer could not replicate it on local roads. Just tell them you have it documented that this has been an ongoing issue and its only just come to light that its the tires after the dealer balanced the tires and found excessive road force. The fact that they failed for excessive road force may be enough to have them replace the tire out of the 12 month warranty.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:01 PM
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pointandgo pointandgo is offline
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Originally Posted by Leekay07 View Post
Umm Actually I was able to get continental to replace my tires at 15,000 miles but it was within 6 month of buying them. So maybe calling them is your best option. Tell them that its been an ongoing issue for almost a year but the dealer could not replicate it on local roads. Just tell them you have it documented that this has been an ongoing issue and its only just come to light that its the tires after the dealer balanced the tires and found excessive road force. The fact that they failed for excessive road force may be enough to have them replace the tire out of the 12 month warranty.
I am rather well versed at dealing with tire company consumer relations reps.
1. Don't tell them that BMW wasn't able to "replicate" the problem!
2. You've had a persistent vibration problem...unresolved for a long time.
3. Your BMW dealer TOLD YOU that the tires DIDN'T MEET BMW specifications for "RFV."
4. You're a long time BMW owner, and are disappointed in Conti's (BMW customer) performance as it AFFECTS YOUR CAR SATISFACTION GREATLY.
5. In the event the the FIRST PERSON you talk to tries to blow you off...ask to speak to his/her supervisor. Always be polite but firm.
6. If this doesn't work, ask for the name/address of the president of the company to elevate your complaint (this nearly ALWAYS works). Tell them you will cc: BMW NA to express your dissatisfaction with CONTI'S intransigence in resolving a persistent tire complaint and will never buy another BMW with Conti tires. (Yes, we play ROUGH).

I had a very "premature" wear issue with my Bridgestone RFs on my 335i a few years ago, in addition to a "bubble" on one tire. I called their consumer relations line and at first got "blown off" by some idiot in their Portland, OR office. I subsequently wrote a letter to their president expressing my extreme dissatisfaction with their arrogant Oregon rep.

Subsequently, I was contacted by an engineer from their headquarters who replaced my two rear tires at "no charge," (over $850). It pays to complain.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:55 PM
gnawbone gnawbone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
I am rather well versed at dealing with tire company consumer relations reps.
1. Don't tell them that BMW wasn't able to "replicate" the problem!
2. You've had a persistent vibration problem...unresolved for a long time.
3. Your BMW dealer TOLD YOU that the tires DIDN'T MEET BMW specifications for "RFV."
4. You're a long time BMW owner, and are disappointed in Conti's (BMW customer) performance as it AFFECTS YOUR CAR SATISFACTION GREATLY.
5. In the event the the FIRST PERSON you talk to tries to blow you off...ask to speak to his/her supervisor. Always be polite but firm.
6. If this doesn't work, ask for the name/address of the president of the company to elevate your complaint (this nearly ALWAYS works). Tell them you will cc: BMW NA to express your dissatisfaction with CONTI'S intransigence in resolving a persistent tire complaint and will never buy another BMW with Conti tires. (Yes, we play ROUGH).

I had a very "premature" wear issue with my Bridgestone RFs on my 335i a few years ago, in addition to a "bubble" on one tire. I called their consumer relations line and at first got "blown off" by some idiot in their Portland, OR office. I subsequently wrote a letter to their president expressing my extreme dissatisfaction with their arrogant Oregon rep.

Subsequently, I was contacted by an engineer from their headquarters who replaced my two rear tires at "no charge," (over $850). It pays to complain.
Thanks Leekay07 and Pointandgo - good advice - both. I'll have time on Friday to mess with this. I'll let you know how it goes!
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:24 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
mods deleted it.

the user was posting "interesting" to a whole bunch of threads, embedding an image url.
Yup - amusing sorta. Didn't our mystery guest get 52 in before d'lock?
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:27 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by gnawbone View Post
He didn't say, he just said they'd try to get Continental to replace the 2 worst tires.

Have you had something similar relating to your rear tires?

No....just that rear tires commonly wear out first.
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:45 PM
ddubreck ddubreck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnawbone View Post
Thanks Leekay07 and Pointandgo - good advice - both. I'll have time on Friday to mess with this. I'll let you know how it goes!
I have the same year 2011 328i xDrive with Conti tires (9000mi.). Built in South Africa, yours too?
The vibration usually starts at 40mph, worst at around 45 and gone near 60.
Dealer balanced wheels, no change, swaped wheels and tires (Conti) from another 2011 328xi,(2000mi.) no change. The thing is that it dosn't happen all the time but most of the time.
A tech at the dealer told me he and another tech have the same cars and theirs do the same thing and that its in the X Drive and nothing can be done about it.
Now, is it the tires or the drive train?? To eliminate the tires change to another brand or go non run flats, who will cover the cost the experiment?
I have thought of going lemom law. Let me know if yours was built in S. Africa and how you make out. Good Luck, Dave
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:58 PM
Leekay07 Leekay07 is offline
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Originally Posted by ddubreck View Post
I have the same year 2011 328i xDrive with Conti tires (9000mi.). Built in South Africa, yours too?
The vibration usually starts at 40mph, worst at around 45 and gone near 60.
Dealer balanced wheels, no change, swaped wheels and tires (Conti) from another 2011 328xi,(2000mi.) no change. The thing is that it dosn't happen all the time but most of the time.
A tech at the dealer told me he and another tech have the same cars and theirs do the same thing and that its in the X Drive and nothing can be done about it.
Now, is it the tires or the drive train?? To eliminate the tires change to another brand or go non run flats, who will cover the cost the experiment?
I have thought of going lemom law. Let me know if yours was built in S. Africa and how you make out. Good Luck, Dave
Not is not normal at all. BMW will not fit none run flats to a car that comes with run flats.
At least that's my experience.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:24 PM
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As for the X drive cars and the "subjective" comments that it's the tranny, we'd make a LOT OF PROGRESS in here if SOMEBODY could reveal BMW NA's tire uniformity standards for 1st Radial Harmonic (RFV).

I KNOW that one of our 'festers has the answer...but they're NOT talking. FESS UP! Come to the rescue of your fellow festers! Where's BMW's service bulletin for this?

I've got TSBs for nearly EVERY car manufacturer for factory specified tire RFV, except for the "elusive" BMW! I have: Audi, GM, Ford, Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan, Land Rover, Subaru, and more, but NOT BMW! I know darn well that they have a standard. What is it?

Once we determine what it is, we can separate the "tranny" issues from the tire issues...educate "festers" on what to look for in dealing with tire vibration issues (especially 'X' cars), and perhaps create a 'stickey.

OK, BMW dealers...here's your chance to step up to the plate!
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F30 328i
E90 328i
E92 335i 6MT
E46 M3 6MT
E39 528i 5MT
MBz W140 S320
MBz W124 300E (slammed)
(unmentionables in between)
'71 AMC Javelin (4-Spd Stick on the floor)
'67 Pontiac Firebird 'cabrio' (1st car - "the leaker")
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  #23  
Old 01-05-2013, 06:00 PM
gnawbone gnawbone is offline
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Location: Nashville, IN
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 2011 328i XDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddubreck View Post
I have the same year 2011 328i xDrive with Conti tires (9000mi.). Built in South Africa, yours too?
The vibration usually starts at 40mph, worst at around 45 and gone near 60.
Dealer balanced wheels, no change, swaped wheels and tires (Conti) from another 2011 328xi,(2000mi.) no change. The thing is that it dosn't happen all the time but most of the time.
A tech at the dealer told me he and another tech have the same cars and theirs do the same thing and that its in the X Drive and nothing can be done about it.
Now, is it the tires or the drive train?? To eliminate the tires change to another brand or go non run flats, who will cover the cost the experiment?
I have thought of going lemom law. Let me know if yours was built in S. Africa and how you make out. Good Luck, Dave
ddubreck: I've had this nagging thing that it is the xdrive, too. The only reason I think this, and I'm not a mechanic or tire expert, is that when I get that harmonic thing going all I have to do to make it quit is move the steering wheel to the right or left just a little and it momentarily stops.

The harmonic vibration in mine is from around 50 up to 62-64ish.

The saving grace for me is that this is a leased car and if it doesn't get straightened out, I'll be done with it in about 16 months. My wife wants to keep it and she can if she'd like, I'm going back to a truck (I really miss my Tacoma).
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  #24  
Old 01-05-2013, 07:04 PM
pointandgo's Avatar
pointandgo pointandgo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Los Angeles area
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,872
Mein Auto: '13 F10 535i (loaner)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnawbone View Post
ddubreck: I've had this nagging thing that it is the xdrive, too. The only reason I think this, and I'm not a mechanic or tire expert, is that when I get that harmonic thing going all I have to do to make it quit is move the steering wheel to the right or left just a little and it momentarily stops.

The harmonic vibration in mine is from around 50 up to 62-64ish.

The saving grace for me is that this is a leased car and if it doesn't get straightened out, I'll be done with it in about 16 months. My wife wants to keep it and she can if she'd like, I'm going back to a truck (I really miss my Tacoma).
It's really disappointing that you would have to put up with this for ANOTHER 16 months! I certainly see an obligation on the part of your dealer to isolate the problem.
__________________
F30 328i
E90 328i
E92 335i 6MT
E46 M3 6MT
E39 528i 5MT
MBz W140 S320
MBz W124 300E (slammed)
(unmentionables in between)
'71 AMC Javelin (4-Spd Stick on the floor)
'67 Pontiac Firebird 'cabrio' (1st car - "the leaker")
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Member: BMW CCA
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-05-2013, 07:14 PM
gnawbone gnawbone is offline
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Location: Nashville, IN
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 2011 328i XDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by pointandgo View Post
It's really disappointing that you would have to put up with this for ANOTHER 16 months! I certainly see an obligation on the part of your dealer to isolate the problem.
I agree!

I'm not done with the dealer, yet but I need the time to get to them. It's been really hectic at work the last couple of weeks.

My next step with the dealer (after I call Continental) is to take all of the emails that the SA and the Service Manager sent me and sit down with the guy I bough the car from and see where that goes. The Service Manager believes the issue is solved - it is a tire issue and the tire mfg has told Service to go flip sand.
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