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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 01-04-2013, 03:11 AM
pal joey pal joey is offline
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BMW U.S. Sales

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...les-crown.html
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2013, 03:44 AM
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This is great for BMW but I'm not sure I want to see BMWs left and right, everywhere I go. Although I'm not an elitist, it just makes a BMW so commonplace.

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Old 01-04-2013, 04:03 AM
wesleyan92 wesleyan92 is offline
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Excellent news; realize there is a debate back and forth on the benefits of being #1 but in my books this is good for the Company. Also good to see the apples to apples number comparison without adding in all the peripheral brands to confuse the average reader.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:35 AM
pal joey pal joey is offline
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i dont believe ive ever met anyone who actually ever admitted to being an elitist. yet in spite of that they clearly exist.
in no way am i suggesting you are ,or even might be.i dont know you.you said you are not,and i take you on your word.
it just started me thinking,and im somewhat curious. does anyone here admit to being an elitist?

excellant news? perhaps for bmw as you mentioned.
but what about the other side,the customers? that is what most of us are more interested in.
will higher demand for their cars,affect future lease deals? car sales? resale value?
or is the higher demand just a temporary spike due to time limited incentives?

i suspect it might be the latter.
yet in spite of that ,getting drivers behind the wheel of a bmw for the first time, could see many of them returning down the road as repeat customers.
in the past i have seen when two nameplates are running close in sales at years end. one will often be more willing then the other to offer incentives just to get the title,publicity,and bragging rights.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:39 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Originally Posted by CyclePimps View Post
This is great for BMW but I'm not sure I want to see BMWs left and right, everywhere I go. Although I'm not an elitist, it just makes a BMW so commonplace.
Isnt it too late for that?
Where I live, BMWs are like Toyotas, they are everywhere. In fact, in my neigborhood, I think there are more BMWs than Toyotas. Think of it this way, if everyone is buying the car you drive, that must mean its a good car. A unique car does not mean its a good car, a unique car usually means that there is some factors that is prohibiting others from buying it, such as cost, poor customer service, low quality or reliability. Sure its nice to drive a car that nobody have, but you usually pay the price for that.
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:55 AM
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Isnt it too late for that?
Where I live, BMWs are like Toyotas, they are everywhere. In fact, in my neigborhood, I think there are more BMWs than Toyotas. Think of it this way, if everyone is buying the car you drive, that must mean its a good car. A unique car does not mean its a good car, a unique car usually means that there is some factors that is prohibiting others from buying it, such as cost, poor customer service, low quality or reliability. Sure its nice to drive a car that nobody have, but you usually pay the price for that.
Yup, BMWs are dime a dozen in Boston.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:56 AM
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What's interesting is that MB and BMW are so dominant in the US market now. Lexus is a distant 3rd.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:23 AM
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Whats the word on Audi, im sick of those commercials saying more bmw owners are switching to audi lol.

Good amount of this 39% surge could have been from Hurricane Sandy sales.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:29 AM
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Whats the word on Audi, im sick of those commercials saying more bmw owners are switching to audi lol.
Projections and goal was ~130k cars. They ended up with ~139k units and that's with all the supply constraints

http://audiusanews.com/pressrelease/...39310-vehicles

Quote:
Good amount of this 39% surge could have been from Hurricane Sandy sales.
This is a fantastic point.

Totally forgot about Sandy. Huge numbers of BMWs, MBs, etc were destroyed. All those owners probably ended up buying another one.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:00 AM
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I went to several BMW dealers in NY/NJ, all of them were saying how they were selling a ton of cars in Nov/Dec, hence a limited amount of further discounts by dealers imo.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:13 AM
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I think BMW's success in the U.S. owes, in part, to its commitment and mission to target its marketing campaign to an increasing number of savvy consumers who recognize the inherent quality, value, and detail that has been engineered into its product-lines -- at all price-points -- which still command a premium. You are paying for high-end research and development, and cutting-edge performance in your luxury-sport vehicles, as well as reaping the benefits of the brand which, in my opinion, has not been diluted with increased market share.

Sure, there have been problems with DHP, new power-trains, and the like, but not every automotive manufacturer is committed to advance these options and technologies in the marketplace. BMW's success is good for domestic and international competition, as well. Other luxury-sport automotive manufacturers recognize they must "step-up their game" to attract the attention and support of their consumer base.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:26 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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The US car market did really well last year, on average, sales are up 13%. Here are some specific sales numbers for luxury car brandes:
Audi up 18%, Acura up 23%, Infiniti up 21%, Mercedes up 15%, lexus up 23% and BMW up 13.8%. It looks like the big gains were made by Japanese, but those gains were probably due to the shortage they had from the tsunami. Take the Japanese out of the equation and it looks like BMW were the big winner last year and mercedes the loser.
Another interesting note, the biggest gainer among all major car manfacturuers were VW, they are up 35% compare to 2011. If they keep up this pace, they will pass Toyota in the near future.
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2013, 04:28 PM
wesleyan92 wesleyan92 is offline
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Originally Posted by The X Men View Post
The US car market did really well last year, on average, sales are up 13%. Here are some specific sales numbers for luxury car brandes:
Audi up 18%, Acura up 23%, Infiniti up 21%, Mercedes up 15%, lexus up 23% and BMW up 13.8%. It looks like the big gains were made by Japanese, but those gains were probably due to the shortage they had from the tsunami. Take the Japanese out of the equation and it looks like BMW were the big winner last year and mercedes the loser.
Another interesting note, the biggest gainer among all major car manfacturuers were VW, they are up 35% compare to 2011. If they keep up this pace, they will pass Toyota in the near future.
VW has some aggressive long term targets; 800K sold by 2018. When they first announced this I was like no way. However, all they need to show is 13% year over year growth to hit that. Maybe it is doable after all.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CyclePimps View Post
This is great for BMW but I'm not sure I want to see BMWs left and right, everywhere I go. Although I'm not an elitist, it just makes a BMW so commonplace.

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I know what you mean. Thing is, it's not necessarily about being "elitist" (to some it is, of course), but IMO it's more about maintaining "aspirational value", and there's nothing wrong with that. Aspiring is what life is all about.

I've been a strongheaded M-B loyalist ever since I got my first Luxury Car, so I can personally attest to why BMW is eating M-B's lunch these days as the engineering both offer are barely even comparable (with BMW pushing further and further ahead), and to why the 5-Series sold a ridiculous amount of cars in December (over 8K which is well over even double of what the nameplate sold in some normal months last year), but....

If you grew up seeing an BMW (or M-B, or Porsche, etc. etc.) and always wanted to "strive" to get one (which is one of the many dynamic reasons for wanting one of these cars), the effect starts to diminish the more you see them out there, it's just the way it is. If BMW/M-B/etc. start catering to smaller, more economical, more generic, lower priced, FWD, etc. segments then naturally the brand "halo" will diminish, and cars being one of the rare material items that I care about, I just enjoy seeing certain cars with said "halo", and can't help but factor it into my purchase decision when I'm spending what to me is a "lot of money" on something I'm going to be passionate about.

That said, if it's great, people will want it, and that's a testament to BMW. As long as they keep their cars designed timelessly and confidently premium in the way they always have, keep their engineering at the top of its game, keep refinement at levels above competitors and with that "BMW feel", even dilution shouldn't be enough to strip the brand of its "halo". And that goes for any historically successful brand that's expanding into lower-margin territory.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:47 PM
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VW has some aggressive long term targets; 800K sold by 2018. When they first announced this I was like no way. However, all they need to show is 13% year over year growth to hit that. Maybe it is doable after all.
Quite possible. They have an onslaught on new cars coming soon.

MK7 Golf, US-only Tiguan replacement, US-only 3 row crossover (think Highlander/Pilot). If they play their cards right on all these, they should be able to get that target in the next couple years.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:27 PM
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Anyone know worldwide sales of Audi vs BMW?
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:01 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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Anyone know worldwide sales of Audi vs BMW?
The VW group sold over 8 million car globaly as of Nov 2012. Toyota sold almost 10 million units in 2012 and GM have not release their numbers yet. Its a three horse race as of now and Toyota is expected to come out on top for 2012, GM 2nd and VW 3rd.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:02 AM
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Just looking for Audi vs BMW, not motherships, but thanks.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:43 AM
petee1997 petee1997 is offline
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I know what you mean. Thing is, it's not necessarily about being "elitist" (to some it is, of course), but IMO it's more about maintaining "aspirational value", and there's nothing wrong with that. Aspiring is what life is all about.

I've been a strongheaded M-B loyalist ever since I got my first Luxury Car, so I can personally attest to why BMW is eating M-B's lunch these days as the engineering both offer are barely even comparable (with BMW pushing further and further ahead), and to why the 5-Series sold a ridiculous amount of cars in December (over 8K which is well over even double of what the nameplate sold in some normal months last year), but....

If you grew up seeing an BMW (or M-B, or Porsche, etc. etc.) and always wanted to "strive" to get one (which is one of the many dynamic reasons for wanting one of these cars), the effect starts to diminish the more you see them out there, it's just the way it is. If BMW/M-B/etc. start catering to smaller, more economical, more generic, lower priced, FWD, etc. segments then naturally the brand "halo" will diminish, and cars being one of the rare material items that I care about, I just enjoy seeing certain cars with said "halo", and can't help but factor it into my purchase decision when I'm spending what to me is a "lot of money" on something I'm going to be passionate about.

That said, if it's great, people will want it, and that's a testament to BMW. As long as they keep their cars designed timelessly and confidently premium in the way they always have, keep their engineering at the top of its game, keep refinement at levels above competitors and with that "BMW feel", even dilution shouldn't be enough to strip the brand of its "halo". And that goes for any historically successful brand that's expanding into lower-margin territory.
Now, now K-A, BMW is not eating MB's lunch. They outsold MB by 7,000 cars on 275,000 total sales. Actually, they were lagging MB until December. Look at the deal you made on your lease. BMW simply subsidized their sales more than MB. It turns out that it was a good time to buy when the two leaders in the premium market(not luxury market) were fighting for the number one spot.

I am also the beneficiary of that battle. However in Canada, MB is the top dog by approximately 2200 cars. I managed to get the best deal ever on my 20th MB when I bought my CLS 550 4M. I also looked at the 650ix Gran Sport. Nice car with a little more power but could not justify the extra 25K for a similarly equipped car.

I have had a few Bimmers and loved them but in the end there is just something about that STAR on the front.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:25 PM
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I know what you mean. Thing is, it's not necessarily about being "elitist" (to some it is, of course), but IMO it's more about maintaining "aspirational value", and there's nothing wrong with that. Aspiring is what life is all about.
Thanks K-A, "elitist" wasn't the correct term that I wanted to convey. Besides, I don't have the funds to support it. ...but once my government check comes in.




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Old 01-05-2013, 01:33 PM
wesleyan92 wesleyan92 is offline
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Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Anyone know worldwide sales of Audi vs BMW?
As of Q3 2012:

BMW: 1.11 mm
Audi: 1.10 mm
MB: 965 k

Only a 12,462 unit difference between the the top 2. In 2011 at the same time the difference was 42 k. Audi is catching up. The China market is keeping BMW ahead - gangbusters there. Will be interesting to see the YE numbers.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:42 PM
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Now, now K-A, BMW is not eating MB's lunch. They outsold MB by 7,000 cars on 275,000 total sales. Actually, they were lagging MB until December. Look at the deal you made on your lease. BMW simply subsidized their sales more than MB. It turns out that it was a good time to buy when the two leaders in the premium market(not luxury market) were fighting for the number one spot.

I am also the beneficiary of that battle. However in Canada, MB is the top dog by approximately 2200 cars. I managed to get the best deal ever on my 20th MB when I bought my CLS 550 4M. I also looked at the 650ix Gran Sport. Nice car with a little more power but could not justify the extra 25K for a similarly equipped car.

I have had a few Bimmers and loved them but in the end there is just something about that STAR on the front.
Both of them kicked major a$$ this year but when I say M-B is getting its lunch eaten, it's by judging on a momentum scale. If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't until last year that M-B had been outsold by BMW ever(?), and if you look at worldwide sales M-B is losing massive market share to not only BMW, but now Audi (whereas a couple of years ago they were in the lead, now they're falling to a distant third rapidly).

However, for me it really doesn't matter, as the same goes for when I had an M-B: For all I care I'm happy if the "other guy" sells more, since it doesn't have to make me see myself come and go as much as possible.

Yeah the deals were insane and it's nice to see many of us benefited from the BMW/M-B ca t fight. However, I'm pretty sure M-B's incentives were what pushed BMW's incentives so much in Dec. People have been getting W212's all year for under $500 a month and with practically nothing down. I think it was M-B who had the first 24 month Lease with an artificially high residual to move a massive amount of E's in Nov, of which BMW retaliated in Dec (and ironically sold about as many 5's as E's sold in Nov, reversing the tables as the E sold significantly less than the 5 in Dec while it was reversed in Nov).

Still, however, from cross shopping these two cars a lot, I can say even by getting my own Lease incentive that is better than anything I had imagined on a loaded 535i, it still doesn't match how cheap W212's Lease for (again, in the $400's with minimal down is just crazy subsidized for a $50+K MSRP car). Then again, I don't follow 528i Lease rates....
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:49 PM
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Thanks K-A, "elitist" wasn't the correct term that I wanted to convey. Besides, I don't have the funds to support it. ...but once my government check comes in.




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Lol. Actually you were spot on about "elitist", like it or not it's one way to look at it, I was just preemptively pointing out to others as I notice sometimes people get bent on this type of subject, that for some of us (including you I'm very sure) it may look like that, but the reasons are actually more "innocent" in a sense.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesleyan92 View Post
As of Q3 2012:

BMW: 1.11 mm
Audi: 1.10 mm
MB: 965 k

Only a 12,462 unit difference between the the top 2. In 2011 at the same time the difference was 42 k. Audi is catching up. The China market is keeping BMW ahead - gangbusters there. Will be interesting to see the YE numbers.
Actually my understanding is that in China Audi outsells BMW. BMW is in the process of following the Audi decision to build manufacturing pants in China.

I was curious because a couple of months back someone said that this year, Audi would beat BMW... LOL

Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:21 AM
wesleyan92 wesleyan92 is offline
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Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Actually my understanding is that in China Audi outsells BMW. BMW is in the process of following the Audi decision to build manufacturing pants in China.

I was curious because a couple of months back someone said that this year, Audi would beat BMW... LOL

Thanks for the info.
Your are correct; Audi does outsell BMW in China but the latter kept pace and stayed relatively close to retain the global title - note that this is through Q3. However, based on the December numbers, BMW is likely to come out ahead globally for the past year. It will be close. 2 years ago the projection was that Audi would get the global title by 2018 but that is likely to happen in the next two years unless there are major market shifts.
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