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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:38 PM
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imitation is the sincerest form flattery
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2012, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
imitation is the sincerest form flattery
This is true in general. There are a few points to make here.

The ATS dose not imitate the current 3, rather the one two generations ago, and the imitation is limited to the chassis for the most part. So far most reviews seem to like that part of attempt.

The other aspect of it, the body style and gadgetry are distinctly unique or cutting edge, so much so they are risky. People either love or hate them.

I think it is a welcome effort in today's play safe, blend in kind of environment. The world advances not because the mass conforms to the norm, but because there are always a few rebels who want to stir things up.
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
This is getting ridiculous now. It's as if the 3 series is the ONLY car that this ATS is even comparable to. I remember when the G37 coupe came out, it wasn't this bad. These journalists make GM seem as if they are desparate. All this is doing is making the 3 series look that much better. The only car in this segment any car company has to make a car better than is the 3 series. Really? This ATS wil be forgotten in 2 years.
By the time the G37 coupe came out the G hullabaloo was over. However, that does raise a really good point. When the G35 first came out C&D asked if it was going to be the 3 Series killer. It did very well. I was very impressed with it. Now that I'm reminded of that I was much more impressed with it than I am the ATS.

I don't know if the G35 caused this level of angst in the 3er world. Probably not. Internet forums were still pretty much in their infancy then. Bimmerfest was only a year or so old. But, in the automotive press the speculation about whether it could topple King 3 was certainly all the buzz.

But, Infiniti couldn't keep their focus and by the time the next iteration of the G came around the G had become another "also ran". That could certainly easily happen to the ATS. Infiniti certainly had a lot less baggage than Caddy does and a better reputation (though short) of actually building successful sport sedans, the original Q45 and J30.


With all this gnashing of teeth over the ATS and the 3er it is worth noting that Cadillac has made a very public point of the fact that the 3er was their benchmark, NOT the A4, NOT the C Class, Not the G, NOT th IS. In fact the 3er is everyone's benchmark in this class.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 11-29-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
By the time the G37 coupe came out the G hullabaloo was over. However, that does raise a really good point. When the G35 first came out C&D asked if it was going to be the 3 Series killer. It did very well. I was very impressed with it. Now that I'm reminded of that I was much more impressed with it than I am the ATS.

But, Infiniti couldn't keep their focus and by the time the next iteration of the G came around the G had become another "also ran". That could certainly easily happen to the ATS. Infiniti certainly had a lot less baggage than Caddy does and a better reputation (though short) of actually building successful sport sedans, the original Q45 and J30.


With all this gnashing of teeth over the ATS and the 3er it is worth noting that Cadillac has made a very public point of the fact that the 3er was their benchmark, NOT the A4, NOT the C Class, Not the G, NOT th IS. In fact the 3er is everyone's benchmark in this class.
Use to be at least.
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:16 AM
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WillInDenver WillInDenver is offline
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Use to be at least.
No, it's still the benchmark, but its position is somewhat more threatened than in the past.

The Honda Accord is further down the path. For years, decades, it has been the benchmark family economy sedan. It probably still is, but just barely as there are any number of competing offerings now that most people would agree are just as good or better.

Speaking of the G, boy has Infiniti waited a long time to redesign that. I'm actually pretty interested to see what they do with it next. Based on the number of them I see driving here and there, it did a lot more damage to the 3's dominance than I expect the ATS will.
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  #31  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
No, it's still the benchmark, but its position is somewhat more threatened than in the past.

The Honda Accord is further down the path. For years, decades, it has been the benchmark family economy sedan. It probably still is, but just barely as there are any number of competing offerings now that most people would agree are just as good or better.

Speaking of the G, boy has Infiniti waited a long time to redesign that. I'm actually pretty interested to see what they do with it next. Based on the number of them I see driving here and there, it did a lot more damage to the 3's dominance than I expect the ATS will.
Good points.

One of the myriad challenges BMW is up against (not the least of which are the changing demands of the market segment) is that automotive performance design and technology is approaching its peak and experiencing the point of diminishing returns. In addition, economies of scale are making all these automotive advancements, many of which BMW pioneered (in car communication technology, vehicle safety and performance enhancing systems, and many others) available to the mass market, no longer limited to the initial innovators. In many ways BMW is becoming a victim of its own success.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 11-29-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
Very good point.
+2

It would be nice to see an objective review that doesn't involve anybody from the respective car companies or any association at all.

Having driven the E46 and E9x variants the E9x chassis is noticeably stiffer than the E46.
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  #33  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Good points.

One of the myriad challenges BMW is up against (not the least of which are the changing demands of the market segment) is that automotive performance design and technology is approaching its peak and experiencing the point of diminishing returns. In addition, economies of scale are making all these automotive advancements, many of which BMW pioneered (in car communication technology, vehicle safety and performance enhancing systems, and many others) available to the mass market, no longer limited to the initial innovators. In many ways BMW is becoming a victim of its own success.
Absolutely, and cars that cost far less than BMWs are beginning to approach BMW in terms of feature, function, and driving experience. For all the love the E46 gets around here, recall that it was competing against the dreck the industry was putting out in the 90s. I wonder how a brand new one would fare against, say, a contemporary Acura TSX.

(I'm just like the guys who wonder how Joe Lewis in his prime would have done against Tyson in his. We'll never know.)
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  #34  
Old 11-29-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
In many ways BMW is becoming a victim of its own success.
BINGO!
For this reason I said to myself a few years back BMW should reserve the 9 series name for something this generation has not seen. If one day all of a sudden a car company designs a breakthrough in automotive design, technology, performance, flight, or whatever we should move into that direction bringing a piece of history along (in the name).
They can call the rest of the cars whatever they want after that.

This does make me wonder if the other brands Rolls and Mini will have to move more upscale and downscale so BMW can widen its gap to continue on its past success.. It's hard to see Rolls getting more upscale.
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  #35  
Old 11-29-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Absolutely, and cars that cost far less than BMWs are beginning to approach BMW in terms of feature, function, and driving experience. For all the love the E46 gets around here, recall that it was competing against the dreck the industry was putting out in the 90s. I wonder how a brand new one would fare against, say, a contemporary Acura TSX.

(I'm just like the guys who wonder how Joe Lewis in his prime would have done against Tyson in his. We'll never know.)
Mark Spitz v Michael Phelps. When my college biology professor was a graduate student he had Mark Spitz as a student. They tested his lung capacity. They had to use a machine they normally use on cows!
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  #36  
Old 11-29-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by boramkiv View Post
BINGO!
For this reason I said to myself a few years back BMW should reserve the 9 series name for something this generation has not seen. If one day all of a sudden a car company designs a breakthrough in automotive design, technology, performance, flight, or whatever we should move into that direction bringing a piece of history along (in the name).
They can call the rest of the cars whatever they want after that.

This does make me wonder if the other brands Rolls and Mini will have to move more upscale and downscale so BMW can widen its gap to continue on its past success.. It's hard to see Rolls getting more upscale.
BMW i.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 11-29-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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  #37  
Old 11-29-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by WJGreer View Post
Absolutely, and cars that cost far less than BMWs are beginning to approach BMW in terms of feature, function, and driving experience. For all the love the E46 gets around here, recall that it was competing against the dreck the industry was putting out in the 90s. I wonder how a brand new one would fare against, say, a contemporary Acura TSX.

(I'm just like the guys who wonder how Joe Lewis in his prime would have done against Tyson in his. We'll never know.)
Well, I got rid of my 2004 E46 because my wife hated it. She wanted a car that was more like a Lexus. Since we were both retired and down to one car, I sold the E46 and leased a '2007. Lexus GS350 thinking that maybe both of us could be satisfied. My wife was happier than I was with the Lexus. Other than the 306 hp engine, the car didn't hold a candle to the E46...period! I never got to like the steering, breaks, ride and handling and the car never showed the straight line stability and absence of wind noise at high speeds as the E46.

We went from the GS to a ES 350 because this car, at least does one thing right, it's quiet and comfy, the way a Lexus should be at a cost of considerably less.

The lease will mature in Feb on the Lexus ES350 and I am presently negotiating on a F30 lease.
If I don't get a good deal on a 328i with all the toys that I want, it will be back to the new boring Lexus.

Last edited by HugH; 11-29-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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  #38  
Old 11-29-2012, 03:17 PM
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I'm single, living in California. I'm not driving up in a Cadillac. I'm just not.
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  #39  
Old 11-29-2012, 03:27 PM
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I'm single, living in California. I'm not driving up in a Cadillac. I'm just not.
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  #40  
Old 11-29-2012, 03:45 PM
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I'm single, living in California. I'm not driving up in a Cadillac. I'm just not.
Oh, yes you are.

See, the ATS isn't a "Cadillac". It's a sports car. It's an enthusiasts dream. It's the E46 reborn. They made it just for you. Don't tell me that you won't give it a chance because the brand is associated with 70 year old grandfathers. Don't tell me the comparo's in the magazines aren't making a difference. I don't want to hear it. I won't hear it.

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  #41  
Old 11-29-2012, 05:39 PM
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I'm single, living in California. I'm not driving up in a Cadillac. I'm just not.
Don't you like being single?
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  #42  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:31 PM
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I'm single, living in California. I'm not driving up in a Cadillac. I'm just not.
Women who judge you based on your car aren't worth your time.
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  #43  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:44 PM
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Women who judge you based on your car aren't worth your time.
So you don't like hot women.

That's cool, some dudes are into that kind of thing.

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  #44  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:10 AM
LX-biker LX-biker is offline
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Any copy or substitution I would consider if price is less, but it's not the case with ATS, not cosiderably. In addition uknown resale or residual vaule. So why bother? I don't have extra cash to burn experimenting with something like new ATS or IS300 in the past. From this simple view, I don't care about ATS, G8, Genesis, Kizashi and so on.
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  #45  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:12 AM
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ATS is a very capable car, and you don't have to worry about resale/residual.... just do what most do here and lease it. If you aren't impressed at lease end then hand the dealer the keys and walk off to your next ride. Effectively your residual is locked in and protected in a lease, so you can consider it a "try before you buy" option.

I would have considered the ATS if it had been available when I ordered my 328xi, but the interior styling is somewhat polarizing to me and might have swayed me to avoid it... but I would have test driven it, by all measures it is a very good vehicle.
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  #46  
Old 01-01-2013, 06:53 PM
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Although the car relatively pricey, the ATS lease rates I saw are aggressive. I don't see them winning significant ground, but Caddy is really trying.
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  #47  
Old 01-01-2013, 06:57 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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The only ATS rates I have seen advertised is for the base 2.5L car. The 2.5 is rental car fodder. It allows value shoppers to see the low price and step into the door. If they want to snag you E90 guys, the 2.5L is not going to do it. All this hatred for the N20, yeah, go drive an NA 4 cylinder ATS and comfort yourself in the slightly better steering.

I love how dealers get it wrong and say the 2.5L is a 6 cylinder lol.
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  #48  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:01 AM
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The ATS is really nice. I could see myself having one. The only problem for GM is that I still prefer the BMW 3 series over it.
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  #49  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:24 AM
ilhan1103 ilhan1103 is offline
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I live in yurop, so I don't really get the fuss about the ATS here, but I think you guys are discussing the wrong aspects of the car(s).

the single most important reason why you should (not) buy an ATS :

IT IS HIDEOUS!!!!
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  #50  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:45 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by ilhan1103 View Post
I live in yurop, so I don't really get the fuss about the ATS here, but I think you guys are discussing the wrong aspects of the car(s).

the single most important reason why you should buy an ATS :

IT IS GORGEOUS!!!!
I fixed it for you.

All kidding aside, exterior styling (IMO ofcourse) is one the best attributes of the ATS.
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