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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:28 AM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I fixed it for you.

All kidding aside, exterior styling (IMO ofcourse) is one the best attributes of the ATS.
And IMO I think the ATS is one seriously unattractive car. I never really liked the styling of the CTS, but the reality is all Cadillac did was clone it and and cheapen it. The ATS looks much better in photographs than it does in person, and I've seen a couple to know.

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  #52  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:44 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
And IMO I think the ATS is one seriously unattractive car. I never really liked the styling of the CTS, but the reality is all Cadillac did was clone it and and cheapen it. The ATS looks much better in photographs than it does in person, and I've seen a couple to know.

BJ
I disagree. It looks fantastic! Much better than the CTS. I looks much better in person than in photos. Reality is that all BMW did was clone the F10 and cheapen it when it comes to F30. Big and bloated looking, IMO.
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  #53  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:57 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The only ATS rates I have seen advertised is for the base 2.5L car. The 2.5 is rental car fodder. It allows value shoppers to see the low price and step into the door. If they want to snag you E90 guys, the 2.5L is not going to do it. All this hatred for the N20, yeah, go drive an NA 4 cylinder ATS and comfort yourself in the slightly better steering.

I love how dealers get it wrong and say the 2.5L is a 6 cylinder lol.
They have just started to advertise the base 2.0T for $299, although with money down.

I don't think the ATS is a beauty, but it isn't bad. I agree the F30 is too bloated not necessarily because of the bigger size than before, but the front hood and bumper design. The good thing though you can order the m-sport to change the look.

The ATS does not have such sporty option yet. To take on 3 series in this segment, they need to offer more choices.
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  #54  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:01 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
They have just started to advertise the base 2.0T for $299, although with money down.

I don't think the ATS is a beauty, but it isn't bad. I agree the F30 is too bloated not necessarily because of the bigger size than before, but the front hood and bumper design. The good thing though you can order the m-sport to change the look.

The ATS does not have such sporty option yet. To take on 3 series in this segment, they need to offer more choices.
I have seen no mention of the 2.0T in a TV commercial 299 ad. The Ad above is a dealer specific deal with no money down. The TV ad for $299 for the 2.5 is still with a few grand down.
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  #55  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:56 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
I have seen no mention of the 2.0T in a TV commercial 299 ad. The Ad above is a dealer specific deal with no money down. The TV ad for $299 for the 2.5 is still with a few grand down.
The above 2.0T offer is on the Cadillac website, which is usually the same on TV, when and if it goes on TV that is.

It was for a base 2.0T auto, the 2.0T with manual will cost less, and comes with LSD standard for manual only.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-07-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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  #56  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:10 AM
shabadoo25 shabadoo25 is offline
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I finally saw one of these on the road the other day. If I HAD to own a Cadillac, it would probably be the ATS.

But, only if I had to.
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  #57  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:10 AM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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The ATS has that seriously overused composition/design rule of 1/3rd window and 2/3rd body panel at the rear. I find all car designs strictly following that rule unattractive to hideous, not to mention functionally compromised by poor rear and rear-side visibility. BMW and Audi have not fallen for that stupid fad. To me, that says something about their design philosophies.
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  #58  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:48 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
The ATS has that seriously overused composition/design rule of 1/3rd window and 2/3rd body panel at the rear. I find all car designs strictly following that rule unattractive to hideous, not to mention functionally compromised by poor rear and rear-side visibility. BMW and Audi have not fallen for that stupid fad. To me, that says something about their design philosophies.
Cadillac's new design language certainly is not for everyone, but in the sea of copycats these days, they do stand on its own, which can appeal to those who do not want to blend in.
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  #59  
Old 01-07-2013, 12:35 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
The ATS has that seriously overused composition/design rule of 1/3rd window and 2/3rd body panel at the rear. I find all car designs strictly following that rule unattractive to hideous, not to mention functionally compromised by poor rear and rear-side visibility. BMW and Audi have not fallen for that stupid fad. To me, that says something about their design philosophies.
I find the ATS exterior styling to be very sporty and at the same time very elegant. Everything flows very well and is proportional. The F30 on the other hand is rather bland. BMW certainly played it safe with the design rather being more innovative. It doesn't look bad at all, just a little bloated and boring. The E46 was flawless, almost perfect in every way.
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  #60  
Old 01-07-2013, 12:54 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The above 2.0T offer is on the Cadillac website, which is usually the same on TV, when and if it goes on TV that is.

It was for a base 2.0T auto, the 2.0T with manual will cost less, and comes with LSD standard for manual only.
Gotta link? I checked the web a week ago and so saw no such thing.

Maybe they are amping things up for the new year, it's also AutoShow time in Detroit.
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  #61  
Old 01-07-2013, 01:05 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Gotta link? I checked the web a week ago and so saw no such thing.

Maybe they are amping things up for the new year, it's also AutoShow time in Detroit.
ATS 2.0T production started much later than 2.5 and 3.6. They planned the 2.0T as the volume leader, but only had 2.5 on the lot in the first few months.

http://www.cadillac.com/tools/curren...d%20your%20own

Last edited by dtc100; 01-07-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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  #62  
Old 01-07-2013, 01:47 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
The ATS has that seriously overused composition/design rule of 1/3rd window and 2/3rd body panel at the rear. I find all car designs strictly following that rule unattractive to hideous, not to mention functionally compromised by poor rear and rear-side visibility. BMW and Audi have not fallen for that stupid fad. To me, that says something about their design philosophies.
I can't say I find the F30 or the A4 particularly attractive although the Audi is more fluid. My 2011 E90 is OK but not great and I don't find the visibility to be that great especially due to the thick A pillar which I'm sure is there for added chassis stiffness. In person the ATS has a nice taut look and the headlights are a strong point. The F30 headlights have grown on me but are still far from artistic. Overall I find the ATS to be a modern interpretation of the Cadillac folded metal look which is their signature.
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  #63  
Old 01-07-2013, 01:52 PM
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Kamdog Kamdog is offline
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Yeah, and all over a car that no BMW owner would be caught dead in.

BJ
You are so wrong about this.

Lots of hearses are Caddys
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  #64  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:12 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
ATS 2.0T production started much later than 2.5 and 3.6. They planned the 2.0T as the volume leader, but only had 2.5 on the lot in the first few months.

http://www.cadillac.com/tools/curren...d%20your%20own
Yeah, that's new, the ATS didn't even show on my screen when I put my ZIP in a week ago.

That $299 is based on an MSRP of $35k. BMW seems to not want to play that game lol. I have not seen an lease based on an MSRP of under $40k.

I sure would have been tempted by an ATS 6mt 2.0T for $299 a month. They could not put me into a Buick GS which I tested for under $400.

I built a base 2.0T with heated seats, security and moonroof. Has a nice MSRP of $36.500. It does not mirror my M-Sport in equipment, but I like the price.

When I got a closer match to my M-Sport I added the performance model and had an MSRP of $44.350, a grand more. But it does have Brembos and an LSD. A lot of buyers do not know what either of those things are lol.
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Last edited by Jamesonsviggen; 01-07-2013 at 02:23 PM.
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  #65  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:38 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Yeah, that's new, the ATS didn't even show on my screen when I put my ZIP in a week ago.

That $299 is based on an MSRP of $35k. BMW seems to not want to play that game lol. I have not seen an lease based on an MSRP of under $40k.

I sure would have been tempted by an ATS 6mt 2.0T for $299 a month. They could not put me into a Buick GS which I tested for under $400.

I built a base 2.0T with heated seats, security and moonroof. Has a nice MSRP of $36.500. It does not mirror my M-Sport in equipment, but I like the price.

When I got a closer match to my M-Sport I added the performance model and had an MSRP of $44.350, a grand more. But it does have Brembos and an LSD. A lot of buyers do not know what either of those things are lol.
The ATS 2.0T manual has LSD and Brembos (front) included for $34k MSRP then.
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  #66  
Old 01-07-2013, 06:14 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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The ATS 2.0T manual has LSD and Brembos (front) included for $34k MSRP then.
So then what justifies the $8k jump besides real leather?
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  #67  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:19 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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So then what justifies the $8k jump besides real leather?
Maybe GM's way to attract a few remaining manual drivers by giving them a big price break. If auto is a must, you do have to pay $44k MSRP to get LSD.
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  #68  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:24 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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You are so wrong about this.

Lots of hearses are Caddys


I'll take the final ride in this methinks.

BJ
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  #69  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:34 PM
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  #70  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Hmm, ambulance chaser as well
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  #71  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:39 PM
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Cadillac is a rebadged Chevy.

Chevy is a rebadged Cadillac.
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  #72  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:13 PM
Reedo302 Reedo302 is offline
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I have looked at the ATS, and I am fine with the design. I don't find it to be some amazingly beautiful car, but it's not hideous either. The issue I have with the modern Cadillacs is that it seems like they took pictures of an F117 stealth fighter bomber and said "Hey, let's make it look like that!". They basically took a giant clay mould and chopped a bunch of edges and off-angle lines into it, then put it into production. I look at the ATS, as well as the CTS and STS and wonder if the purpose is to defeat surface to air missiles.
In all seriousness, I just see no soul in the design of the Cadillacs. If you ever watch the BMW specials on TV about how they do their designs and develop everything from the look of the headlights to the sound the doors make when open, you see that they put extensive thought into everything. They really espouse the concept of driving passion. I don't get that feeling from Cadillac. Now granted, I'm not a huge Bangle fan, and the new de-Bangled stuff looks absolutely amazing. BUT, I still found some beauty in what was produced under the Bangle design. I'd take a Cadillac over anything else GM produces, but only because I would have to.

I have a lot of problems with Cadillac, but it's because it's an American brand. I don't care about the history, I care about what I know of American cars. My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005. American cars have had very poor quality interior build quality, and the quality of trim parts, buttons, latches and whatnot has always been relatively cheap. For a long time, they've all looked like they were made by Tyco Toys. Now interiors are getting better, but I have yet to see anything that reassures me that American build quality is any near to being in the ballpark of German build quality. I don't care what technology Cadillac puts into the car, what matters is how that technology fares 5-6 years from now when I'm knocking on the 100,000 mile threshold. Creaks? Squeaks? Rattles? Not only that, but American cars, in my experience, do not stand up well to hard use. The harder I drove my Bimmers, the more reliable they were. Every American or Japanese car I've owned has had progressive issues with hard use.

Then there's the issue of GM needing a government bailout, and the fact that I despise the UAW, and I can't bring myself to buy a Cadillac.
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  #73  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:43 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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I have looked at the ATS, and I am fine with the design. I don't find it to be some amazingly beautiful car, but it's not hideous either. The issue I have with the modern Cadillacs is that it seems like they took pictures of an F117 stealth fighter bomber and said "Hey, let's make it look like that!". They basically took a giant clay mould and chopped a bunch of edges and off-angle lines into it, then put it into production. I look at the ATS, as well as the CTS and STS and wonder if the purpose is to defeat surface to air missiles.
In all seriousness, I just see no soul in the design of the Cadillacs. If you ever watch the BMW specials on TV about how they do their designs and develop everything from the look of the headlights to the sound the doors make when open, you see that they put extensive thought into everything. They really espouse the concept of driving passion. I don't get that feeling from Cadillac. Now granted, I'm not a huge Bangle fan, and the new de-Bangled stuff looks absolutely amazing. BUT, I still found some beauty in what was produced under the Bangle design. I'd take a Cadillac over anything else GM produces, but only because I would have to.

I have a lot of problems with Cadillac, but it's because it's an American brand. I don't care about the history, I care about what I know of American cars. My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005. American cars have had very poor quality interior build quality, and the quality of trim parts, buttons, latches and whatnot has always been relatively cheap. For a long time, they've all looked like they were made by Tyco Toys. Now interiors are getting better, but I have yet to see anything that reassures me that American build quality is any near to being in the ballpark of German build quality. I don't care what technology Cadillac puts into the car, what matters is how that technology fares 5-6 years from now when I'm knocking on the 100,000 mile threshold. Creaks? Squeaks? Rattles? Not only that, but American cars, in my experience, do not stand up well to hard use. The harder I drove my Bimmers, the more reliable they were. Every American or Japanese car I've owned has had progressive issues with hard use.

Then there's the issue of GM needing a government bailout, and the fact that I despise the UAW, and I can't bring myself to buy a Cadillac.
You should see the interior trim of my 09 328i, peeling on the steering wheel, driver's side window control trim, on cold days radio display will dim and sometimes the radio itself won't work. The driver's seat leather did not age well considering the mileage of the vehicle. Not exactly very high quality built if you ask me. I am not even going to get into the multiple VW brand vehicles I have owned because the quality and service I have encountered with those was beyond embarrassing. The most reliable, highest quality built vehicle I have owned was a TSX. In my experience German cars were by far the most unreliable vehicles I have owned. I am actually very impressed by the increased quality and service domestic brands currently offer over more expensive imports, particularly European ones. Just my 2 cents.
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  #74  
Old 01-08-2013, 05:31 AM
ilhan1103 ilhan1103 is offline
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You should see the interior trim of my 09 328i, peeling on the steering wheel, driver's side window control trim, on cold days radio display will dim and sometimes the radio itself won't work. The driver's seat leather did not age well considering the mileage of the vehicle. Not exactly very high quality built if you ask me. I am not even going to get into the multiple VW brand vehicles I have owned because the quality and service I have encountered with those was beyond embarrassing. The most reliable, highest quality built vehicle I have owned was a TSX. In my experience German cars were by far the most unreliable vehicles I have owned. I am actually very impressed by the increased quality and service domestic brands currently offer over more expensive imports, particularly European ones. Just my 2 cents.
How many miles did you have on it?

My e90 had close to 250000km on it this fall (it was built in '08 summer) It had the Msport interior and I must say the leather on the gearshift knob thingy didnt look new anymore but no actual peeling as you describe it. Seats, plastic and alu dash parts were all mint condition.
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  #75  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:23 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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How many miles did you have on it?

My e90 had close to 250000km on it this fall (it was built in '08 summer) It had the Msport interior and I must say the leather on the gearshift knob thingy didnt look new anymore but no actual peeling as you describe it. Seats, plastic and alu dash parts were all mint condition.
I still have it. Just at about 45K, I really like the I6 and the sport package. The car is fantastic, however it does have some quality interior trim issues as described above.
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