Throttle Hesitation - DRIVING US NUTS!!!

Originally Posted by greyX1

The delay happens before the transmission even sees any torque. The engine sits quietly for a full second after depressing the accelerator before responding at all, so why would it be different with the 3.0L/6sp? Same ECU I bet. Anyone with the 3.0 see this too?

Expecting the BMS unit in 2-5 days... I'll report back in a new post after the install, hopefully on the weekend. We're at about 2k miles now, so I feel comfortable changing the maps a bit. Won't drive it too hard though, I promise! Even if the unit only remapped this stupid drive-by-wire delay, I would be happy...

grey....i'm looking forward to your new thread. i'm really interested in the BMS Stage 1 as well. i haven't reached out to Terry yet about the unit but my main concern is the "codes" it might throw out when I bring the car in for service. Main reason for purchasing the X1 over an Infiniti EX was the better warranty. I read about the CAN tool but tuning is new to me. I've always done bolt ons. My '88 325es wasn't so technologically advanced as this X1 Just want to make sure I can get this unit without to much of a headache.

i notice the hesitation too...it really is about 1 second before throttle kicks in.

anxiously waiting grey!

I sure am glad I found this thread. Now that I am approaching 200 miles on my X1, I've been quite aware of this silly throttle lag for some time. It only took about 20-ish miles for me to realize that the delay was "just how the car is." The acceleration is about as linear as a Mobius strip! I give the pedal a full inch; car acts like a sleepy dog being poked with a stick to move. Once it gets going, even a tiny increase in pedal pressure brings on a more acceptable rate of acceleration.

If either of these BMS devices will make the pedal act like that from the beginning, then I'll be all over it. I will be anxiously awaiting results on how well this works for our X1's!

I've got some experience with aftermarket mods, having put on a few aftermarket superchargers, piggyback computers (that involved splicing into the ECU wires), swapping injectors, ect. The BMS unit seems truly plug and play. If I throw a code then I'll go with the CAN unit or anther aftermarket code reader. I'll start a new thread when I get this all going.

Thank you very much for posting this thread.

The EPA test is a very specific procedure. If the car makers would wise-up, they would program the computer to recognize that it was on such a test routine, and behave as buyers want otherwise.

Our C230K and Explorer have no such stupidity! I'm sure I'd notice it if the ones I drive have it, especially sicne I won't buy a vehicle I'm not familiar with unless I've had a good long (75 to 125 mile) test drive in assorted traffic.

I've got expereince with turbo and super-charged cars, going back to my 1984 Sunbird with the 1.8 turbo and manual transmission.

My X1 is still a few weeks away (en route to the Panama Canal at the moment). I did do some driving in our 128i and my parents' F30 328i (xLine with everything on it).

The 128i and the 328i are both noticeably more responsive and peppier in DS/Sport mode. However, the lag in Drive/Comfort does serve a purpose. In these vehicles, the drive is a bit smoother and perhaps more luxurious in Drive/Comfort, DS/Sport can be a bit too sporty/responsive for normal driving. ECO PRO is just too numb for my taste and makes the car feel like a base model Camry. I'm driving my S2000 until the X1 gets here and I have come to appreciate Drive/Comfort for long commutes.

When using paddles in D/Drive in the 128i, you still get the delayed throttle response vs DS. I use the paddles mostly for passing on the freeway. The auto does a great job on its own in DS mode when needed. I may just start using DS instead of paddles like my wife does. The downside of DS is that it never shifts into overdrive (6th) on the 128i. I'm not sure how it behaves on the 8AT but I'm sure it keeps gearing low and revs high just like the 6AT.

My parents like the luxurious feel and would rather mash on the gas for power than use sport mode (they don't have paddles). They drive mostly in ECO PRO to conserve fuel. I showed them how to quickly move into DS and back when they need responsiveness for a moment. They also like the light steering while I prefer the stiffer steering of Sport mode. With DS they keep the lighter steering vs moving to sport mode with the rocker switch. The F30 is a bit different than the X1 in this regard, which of course doesn't offer adaptive sport steering and suspension. If it did, I would have chosen the sDrive over xDrive.

Just a quick note for reference: there is still substantial tip-in lag when driving in "M" mode. Meaning when stopped at a stop sign, manually shifting into 1st, the engine still hesitates to accelerate, although the hesitation is not as long as in D mode. It's about the same in M as DS. Still much too much lag for me. But my other car has the pedal connected to the throttle body with a physical cable - so that is what I'm used to. ECO PRO is a joke. Maaaaaaybe if driving on a long trip on a flat freeway with cruise control on. Otherwise why buy the BMW in the first place - just to impress the neighbors?

Originally Posted by greyX1

Just a quick note for reference: there is still substantial tip-in lag when driving in "M" mode. Meaning when stopped at a stop sign, manually shifting into 1st, the engine still hesitates to accelerate, although the hesitation is not as long as in D mode. It's about the same in M as DS. Still much too much lag for me. But my other car has the pedal connected to the throttle body with a physical cable - so that is what I'm used to. ECO PRO is a joke. Maaaaaaybe if driving on a long trip on a flat freeway with cruise control on. Otherwise why buy the BMW in the first place - just to impress the neighbors?

Yes the lag is unacceptable. Maybe acceptable for a Toyota Prius, but not a BMW.

You should bring it back to the dealer to check whether there are any software updates for your x1.

But at the meantime, you can try this throttle adaptation reset procedure:
1. Keep your foot off the brake and hit the start/stop button.
2. Hold the gas pedal down (all the way down) for 5 seconds.
3. Switch off the car while holding the pedal down.
4. Done

You should see a slight improvement.

Originally Posted by douggie

But at the meantime, you can try this throttle adaptation reset procedure:
1. Keep your foot off the brake and hit the start/stop button.
2. Hold the gas pedal down (all the way down) for 5 seconds.
3. Switch off the car while holding the pedal down.
4. Done

You should see a slight improvement.

Sorry...confused here...in your reset procedure...the car won't start if you don't have foot on break. (Unless I am completely wrong) When do you turn the car on to perform Step 3?

Originally Posted by 325es1988

Sorry...confused here...in your reset procedure...the car won't start if you don't have foot on break. (Unless I am completely wrong) When do you turn the car on to perform Step 3?

Sorry. When I mean on/off, it's only the electronics that need to be switched on/off. The engine is not running at all during the procedure.

My BMS n20 unit arrived today! Looking forward to tomorrow morning for the install...

Quick update: installed the Burger Tuning N26 stage 1 today (formal thread and writeup pending). Initial impressions, no change with the tip-in in D, but it is reduced by about 1/2 in DS. The car flies like a bat out of hell in DS, however. That's fun. Just a quick drive around the block and it feels like a whole new beast! A bit disappointed that the throttle hesitation issue wasn't fixed in D, however glad that now I have the option of mostly eliminating it in DS. I'm sure BMW will offer ECU upgrades for the tip-in like it sounds they are doing for the other N52/55 engines, but likely won't happen any time soon with the new model.

Insofar as the install went, it took me about 45 minutes, only because the instructions aren't specific to the X1, and there are some minor differences I had to figure out. If I had to uninstall it, or re-install it, it would literally take me less than 5 minutes.

Thanks for the report!

So grey, it sounds like the kit provided some nice improvement everywhere, except the area I was hoping it would fix the most.

Aside from tip-in not really getting addressed while in D, I'm curious to find out how you feel about the advertised HP gains from this kit. I've enjoyed the need-more-HP bug for some time, and the one thing I've leared is that HP isn't cheap. If it is, then something is wrong. HP, reliability, and cost... pick two of the three. This kit advertises some pretty remarkable gains, especially for the price; so naturally I'm taking that with a HUGE grain of salt. I had planned to pick this kit up, if for nothing else than to fix the throttle lag, but if there is actually a noticeable increase in power, for example if BMW REALLY left that much HP on the table by not tuning it like BMS just did, then i might go for it anyway. It's just that when I see items that run $10-$15 per HP offered, I am very skeptical.

I'm glad the initial review was favorable!

Originally Posted by jbone907

So grey, it sounds like the kit provided some nice improvement everywhere, except the area I was hoping it would fix the most.

Aside from tip-in not really getting addressed while in D, I'm curious to find out how you feel about the advertised HP gains from this kit. I've enjoyed the need-more-HP bug for some time, and the one thing I've leared is that HP isn't cheap. If it is, then something is wrong. HP, reliability, and cost... pick two of the three. This kit advertises some pretty remarkable gains, especially for the price; so naturally I'm taking that with a HUGE grain of salt. I had planned to pick this kit up, if for nothing else than to fix the throttle lag, but if there is actually a noticeable increase in power, for example if BMW REALLY left that much HP on the table by not tuning it like BMS just did, then i might go for it anyway. It's just that when I see items that run $10-$15 per HP offered, I am very skeptical.

I'm glad the initial review was favorable!

The seat-of-the-pants gains from the unit are substantial, although to realize the max (60) HP increase advertised on the site you need to run high octane and a more aggressive map. The standard map is definitely enough to get your attention. Keep in mind that BMW developed and raced a 2L inline 4 cylinder F1 engine that produced 800 hp. I think they know a bit about small displacement potential! The little BMS unit definitely delivers in the HP/$ ratio. My other car is running an aftermarket supercharger, fuel mods, plus headers at the tune of $3000 or so, and the gains are MAYBE 100 HP (although more like 70). So at best, $30/HP, but probably more like $40-$45/HP.

In so far as the hesitation is concerned, I need to drive the car a bit more to really get a feel for whether the tip in has improved ... The fact that it has been bothering me so much recently, coupled with an email from Terry Burger that the throttle lag issue was addressed, really set me up for disappointment that it wasn't entirely eliminated with the tune. I don't know if I'm overly sensitive to it now or what, or if Terry only meant that it was addressed in DS. The nice thing is that the unit is reprogrammable. If enough of us provide feedback to BMS, maybe they would offer a more aggressive D-map? I don't know...

Originally Posted by jbone907

So grey, it sounds like the kit provided some nice improvement everywhere, except the area I was hoping it would fix the most.

Aside from tip-in not really getting addressed while in D, I'm curious to find out how you feel about the advertised HP gains from this kit. I've enjoyed the need-more-HP bug for some time, and the one thing I've leared is that HP isn't cheap. If it is, then something is wrong. HP, reliability, and cost... pick two of the three. This kit advertises some pretty remarkable gains, especially for the price; so naturally I'm taking that with a HUGE grain of salt. I had planned to pick this kit up, if for nothing else than to fix the throttle lag, but if there is actually a noticeable increase in power, for example if BMW REALLY left that much HP on the table by not tuning it like BMS just did, then i might go for it anyway. It's just that when I see items that run $10-$15 per HP offered, I am very skeptical.

I'm glad the initial review was favorable!

It is relatively simple to increase HP in turbo charged cars. For NA cars, it's really expensive.

Manufacturers usually have lots of safety margins built in just to make sure their cars are reliable and are compatible to various extreme driving conditions and different petrol grades.

Originally Posted by greyX1

The seat-of-the-pants gains from the unit are substantial, although to realize the max (60) HP increase advertised on the site you need to run high octane and a more aggressive map. The standard map is definitely enough to get your attention. Keep in mind that BMW developed and raced a 2L inline 4 cylinder F1 engine that produced 800 hp. I think they know a bit about small displacement potential! The little BMS unit definitely delivers in the HP/$ ratio. My other car is running an aftermarket supercharger, fuel mods, plus headers at the tune of $3000 or so, and the gains are MAYBE 100 HP (although more like 70). So at best, $30/HP, but probably more like $40-$45/HP.

In so far as the hesitation is concerned, I need to drive the car a bit more to really get a feel for whether the tip in has improved ... The fact that it has been bothering me so much recently, coupled with an email from Terry Burger that the throttle lag issue was addressed, really set me up for disappointment that it wasn't entirely eliminated with the tune. I don't know if I'm overly sensitive to it now or what, or if Terry only meant that it was addressed in DS. The nice thing is that the unit is reprogrammable. If enough of us provide feedback to BMS, maybe they would offer a more aggressive D-map? I don't know...

Word has always been that all BMW tunes do not affect the car during "normal driving". I would imagine that the DS improvement you feel is because that is when the tune is working. I would put money on BMS having programmed their tune to leave the Tip In the way it is in D mode.

Originally Posted by conceyted

Word has always been that all BMW tunes do not affect the car during "normal driving". I would imagine that the DS improvement you feel is because that is when the tune is working. I would put money on BMS having programmed their tune to leave the Tip In the way it is in D mode.

Makes sense because we don't drive "spirited" everyday, especially when there is traffic.

So it seems that only the Sprint booster is the one that will change the pedal response in both D and DS. It doesn't add horsepower though.

Originally Posted by conceyted

Word has always been that all BMW tunes do not affect the car during "normal driving". I would imagine that the DS improvement you feel is because that is when the tune is working. I would put money on BMS having programmed their tune to leave the Tip In the way it is in D mode.

BMS tunes are supposed to include throttle remapping. I have emailed them directly regarding this. If the remap in D was not included, there is a good chance they will fix this in firmware.

Originally Posted by nospam

BMS tunes are supposed to include throttle remapping. I have emailed them directly regarding this. If the remap in D was not included, there is a good chance they will fix this in firmware.

keep us posted - maybe let him know about the discussion over here

Originally Posted by nospam

BMS tunes are supposed to include throttle remapping. I have emailed them directly regarding this. If the remap in D was not included, there is a good chance they will fix this in firmware.

I emailed Terry @ BMS and let him know about this thread. He said "Perhaps with higher stages we'll do more on the lag". Not sure how that helps us then.

I've had aftermarket tunes on almost all my rides, but I've never used a Sprint Booster or PedalBox. Are these are supposed to address the throttle delay?

Originally Posted by johanness

I emailed Terry @ BMS and let him know about this thread. He said "Perhaps with higher stages we'll do more on the lag". Not sure how that helps us then.

I've had aftermarket tunes on almost all my rides, but I've never used a Sprint Booster or PedalBox. Are these are supposed to address the throttle delay?

that's too bad. i don't plan on running the car at the track on 100 octane. i just want a comfortable-to-drive everyday car

thanks for the write up grey.

like others i'm saddened by the lack of affect on the tip-in.

i may want to get the Stage 1 down the line but like many here its a family car and an everyday driver. which means traffic and kid hauler. so it doesn't make sense for me at the moment. if it fixed the lag it may be a different story.

Originally Posted by 325es1988

thanks for the write up grey.

like others i'm saddened by the lack of affect on the tip-in.

i may want to get the Stage 1 down the line but like many here its a family car and an everyday driver. which means traffic and kid hauler. so it doesn't make sense for me at the moment. if it fixed the lag it may be a different story.

and just like that, BAM, already $400 in lost sales from that response from BMS about not planning on addressing tip-in

Originally Posted by greyX1

and just like that, BAM, already $400 in lost sales from that response from BMS about not planning on addressing tip-in

Nah, don't look at it that way. It's a REAL improvement in the driveability of the car (with the exception of the throttle lag in 'D'). I don't buy into the fact that just because it's a daily driver/family car/kid-hauler it should be a dog. I'd rather use 50% of a 290hp than 75% of a 250hp. This kit isn't designed for the X1 to turn into a track beast anyways; its a mild upgrade.

Besides, I stick it in DS every time I get in the car. I think it's a great purchase.

Does anyone have any experience with the Sprint Booster or PedalBox units?

Originally Posted by johanness

I emailed Terry @ BMS and let him know about this thread. He said "Perhaps with higher stages we'll do more on the lag". Not sure how that helps us then.

I've had aftermarket tunes on almost all my rides, but I've never used a Sprint Booster or PedalBox. Are these are supposed to address the throttle delay?

Sounds like he confirmed higher stages for the N20. That in itself makes me excited!