JB4 Stage 2 installed! A Must have for all F10 535i!

Originally Posted by TGray5

Just curious...what are the different parameters between the N55 in an F30 and N55 in an F10?

Not too sure about the F30 to the F10. But from the E90/92 N55 to the F30/F10 N55 has a whole different ECU. So those dynos that you see on BMS' website for the stage 1 and stage 2 with or without DP are from the E9x N55 and not from any F30 or F10. These are proving a lot harder to get the huge gains that were seen with the N54s and older N55s. Just want to make sure everyone has a clear understanding of this tune before thinking they can gain 80-100hp on an F10.. Sorry OP but you gained 40-50 Max and that is taking into acount your catback exhaust as well.

Wow, I sound like a grouch. I' m really not grumpy, just don't like seeing people misinformed.
And I had the tune on my car for a couple months so I an not just talking out of my ass here.

Bottom line its great for a little kick in power. Way better than stock, but I am on a mission to find something better that gives me the power I miss from my E60.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

OK, I'm buying one as soon as the car comes back from the shop.

I'm sure you will be happy with your choice.

Originally Posted by RambleJ

Definitely not 80hp/100tq.. Since having it off my car, I notice a difference, but nothing like my E60 tuned N54 vs stock. That was a gain of around 80 hp/tq and this feels nothing close to that at all. I would say 25hp/35-40tq And those are my butt dyno numbers for the stage 1.. I like to say they are usually pretty accurate.

Well, I am running stage 2 which is supposedly to be a bigger, more dramatic improvement over stage 1.
Rather or not if it really gives a gain of 80hp I'm not sure.
It sure feels awesome though.

Originally Posted by alextremo

How could this not matter to you? If you haven't had your car on the dyno or data logged before and after you have no idea what the tune is doing to your engine. Seeing this graph would make me very nervous about putting this tune on my car. Agreed it could be something specific to that car, or that dyno or dyno operator but I would not be satisfied (or writing positive reviews) without having any data of the impacts on your car's engine operation aside from your subjective assessment of improved driving feel.

Also, i believe the owner of the car from that dyno has uninstalled the tune and is selling it, I did not see the issues with the dyno explained or addressed.

See TGray5's post.
There are tens of thousands of BMW out there running Burger's tune.
I trust Terry's work as it has been proven to be excellent.

As for my subjective assessment of improved driving feel, isn't that what is most important?
Numbers and charts are meaningless to me because I am not shooting to have the most powerful 535.
Like I said in my review, base on the throttle response and tip in fix alone the tune is well worth the money.
It just made the car so much more useable in everyday situation, highway or in traffic.
Everything else is just icing on the cake.

Originally Posted by smashhell

I'm sure you will be happy with your choice.

See TGray5's post.
There are tens of thousands of BMW out there running Burger's tune.
I trust Terry's work as it has been proven to be excellent.

As for my subjective assessment of improved driving feel, isn't that what is most important?
Numbers and charts are meaningless to me because I am not shooting to have the most powerful 535.
Like I said in my review, base on the throttle response and tip in fix alone the tune is well worth the money.
It just made the car so much more useable in everyday situation, highway or in traffic.
Everything else is just icing on the cake.

BOOM!...Well said!
But if and when something better comes along, I will evaluate the possibility of changing tunes.
As of right now, performance for dollar value, plus the vast improvement in driveability, you cannot beat the JB4 S2 for the 535.

Originally Posted by smashhell

See TGray5's post.
There are tens of thousands of BMW out there running Burger's tune.
I trust Terry's work as it has been proven to be excellent.

As for my subjective assessment of improved driving feel, isn't that what is most important?
Numbers and charts are meaningless to me because I am not shooting to have the most powerful 535.
Like I said in my review, base on the throttle response and tip in fix alone the tune is well worth the money.
It just made the car so much more useable in everyday situation, highway or in traffic.
Everything else is just icing on the cake.

I don't mean to be confrontational but you come off as extremely naive. What do this company's products on other BMW models have to do with how your car is impacted by this tune? What do you think Terry's engineering and test investment looks like for the f10 that would give you this confidence? There is not a large sample of f10 users you can rely on that have provided solid data, and the only data I have seen has indicated there is a potential problem. If you don't have data you have no way to know what is going on inside your engine.

And I'm not talking about max power, I'm talking about having confidence that the tune you installed is SAFELY adding more power. Driving feel is only important if you can be sure you're not causing damage to your car. Without verifying myself that everything is copacetic I would not be running this tune, but maybe that's just me.

Originally Posted by alextremo

I don't mean to be confrontational but you come off as extremely naive. What do this company's products on other BMW models have to do with how your car is impacted by this tune? What do you think Terry's engineering and test investment looks like for the f10 that would give you this confidence? There is not a large sample of f10 users you can rely on that have provided solid data, and the only data I have seen has indicated there is a potential problem. If you don't have data you have no way to know what is going on inside your engine.

And I'm not talking about max power, I'm talking about having confidence that the tune you installed is SAFELY adding more power. Driving feel is only important if you can be sure you're not causing damage to your car. Without verifying myself that everything is copacetic I would not be running this tune, but maybe that's just me.

And you are basing your view on a single failed dyno testing.

I am trusting Terry Burger's years of experience and tens of thousands of proven example of success in his tuning ability. The N55 engine in our car is not a new engine. The difference in our engine and the one in say E90 335 or F30 335 is minimal.

Oh and another thing, there are Other F10 535i JB4 stage 2 dyno out there than the one you shown.

Like this one, much smoother:

Map 2 (14.5psi)- 297.98 whp (375hp crank aprox). 365.95 wtq (446tq crank aprox).
Map 1 (12.5psi)- 298.97 whp (372hp crank aprox). 347.91 wtq (424tq crank aprox).
(*Note, this guy have downpipe and exhaust. +75HP and +146lb torque over stock ... this is obviously a guy trying to shoot for most HP lol)

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736053

Originally Posted by smashhell

And you are basing your view on a single failed dyno testing.

I am trusting Terry Burger's years of experience and tens of thousands of proven example of success in his tuning ability. The N55 engine in our car is not a new engine. The difference in our engine and the one in say E90 335 or F30 335 is minimal.

Oh and another thing, there are Other F10 535i JB4 stage 2 dyno out there than the one you shown.

Like this one: (*Note, this guy have downpipe and exhaust)

Map 2 (14.5psi)- 297.98 whp (375hp crank aprox). 365.95 wtq (446tq crank aprox). (+75HP and +146lb torque over stock)
Map 1 (12.5psi)- 298.97 whp (372hp crank aprox). 347.91 wtq (424tq crank aprox).
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736053

These are all the same day, no doubt after the install. You can tweak parameters on a dyno to get you these results. My only point is that without before and after dynos, there is no way to tell what you are getting.

I am glad you FEEL its great.

Originally Posted by miamiboyca

These are all the same day, no doubt after the install. You can tweak parameters on a dyno to get you these results. My only point is that without before and after dynos, there is no way to tell what you are getting.

I am glad you FEEL its great.

Didn't I said there are more F10 535 Burger tune dyno out there?

Here is another one with BEFORE and AFTER:
(And Yes I FEEL great about the tune. So does both of the owners in both of the other thread. )

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540199

With none of the details that affect the results.

The one thing I will say about all of the results I have seen is that whatever power it adds does come on a lot earlier.

Originally Posted by smashhell

And you are basing your view on a single failed dyno testing.

I am trusting Terry Burger's years of experience and tens of thousands of proven example of success in his tuning ability. The N55 engine in our car is not a new engine. The difference in our engine and the one in say E90 335 or F30 335 is minimal.

Oh and another thing, there are Other F10 535i JB4 stage 2 dyno out there than the one you shown.

Like this one, much smoother:

Map 2 (14.5psi)- 297.98 whp (375hp crank aprox). 365.95 wtq (446tq crank aprox).
Map 1 (12.5psi)- 298.97 whp (372hp crank aprox). 347.91 wtq (424tq crank aprox).
(*Note, this guy have downpipe and exhaust. +75HP and +146lb torque over stock ... this is obviously a guy trying to shoot for most HP lol)

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736053

Im sorry but those wheel to crank conversion are way off. Adding an additional 26+% from wheel to crank? That is crazy talk. 18% is a more realistic number.
So if we go with that, he has gained 50hp over stock, that is with tune, exhaust and downpipe and 95+ octane (downpipes usually add 15-20hp).

I for one am not anti BMS if that is what you are thinking. If you check out my previous cars I have had their tunes all the way back when JB2 was the newest and hottest thing on the block, then went to the JB+ when it was in beta and then jumped up to a JB3 and had now tried this one my F10. I am just being realistic and stating you have made at most 40hp gain with your exhaust.

Also dyno's without a baseline are basically worthless as far as showing how much HP one has gained.

Just for the hell of it.. Here is my thread I started when I installed mine.. Click me... Do it now! What are you waiting for!!!

Originally Posted by BigDeep1

Thanks for the energetic review.

It seems you may have seen this disturbing dyno of a n55 F10 with the JB4-stage 2 BMS tune:

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784125



Did you ask Terry about this?? I was ready to buy this tune; however, the above dyno is very disturbing to me. I am anxiously waiting to see when Terry will respond to this information. It seems that the shop has contacted Terry over 2 weeks ago about this.

Is this your install? In only have the Stage 1, but like I have written before, it make a world of difference even though it does not have the attributes of the stage 2 tune. I notice, like the OP said, instant power on when driving. There is some, I wouldn't call it pronounced lag, but a softer take-up that I experience in many cars. I talk about it here.
http://www.www.bimmerfest.com/forums...hlight=peterc4

Originally Posted by alextremo

I don't mean to be confrontational but you come off as extremely naive. What do this company's products on other BMW models have to do with how your car is impacted by this tune? What do you think Terry's engineering and test investment looks like for the f10 that would give you this confidence? There is not a large sample of f10 users you can rely on that have provided solid data, and the only data I have seen has indicated there is a potential problem. If you don't have data you have no way to know what is going on inside your engine.

And I'm not talking about max power, I'm talking about having confidence that the tune you installed is SAFELY adding more power. Driving feel is only important if you can be sure you're not causing damage to your car. Without verifying myself that everything is copacetic I would not be running this tune, but maybe that's just me.

I've run it for months, Stage 1 that is. Not a problem at all. How do you know there is not a large sample of F10 users?

Originally Posted by PeterC4

I've run it for months, Stage 1 that is. Not a problem at all. How do you know there is not a large sample of F10 users?

Straight from the horses mouth....


Terry @ BMS
Tuner Posts: 26,223
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: terry@burgertuning.com
Car: 135i, 335i, X5D
Tuner: BMS

09-04-2012, 08:10 AM

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As opportunities come up we'll be working on things -- but there are so few F10s out and so few running the tunes that unfortunately they remain a lower overall priority with development time.

Thread reopened, I apologize for the delay.