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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 01-09-2013, 01:56 PM
sr5959 sr5959 is online now
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How come ALL the non-fanboy F30 bashers are driving old-shape 3s???
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  #52  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Perhaps the oldest study on the subject was conducted by Jack Brehm at the University of Minnesota in the 1950s. Brehm set out to examine the relationship between personal choice and cognitive dissonance-the state of having conflicting ideas kicking around in your head. Brehm gathered 225 female students from the University and asked them to rate eight common objects (things like toasters, coffee makers, art books, and stopwatches) on an eight-point scale from least to most desirable.

As part of the study, Brehm selected two objects a given participant had rated within 0.5-1.5 points of each other, and he told that participant she could take one of the objects home. After the participant had made her choice, she was asked to indulge in some filler activities, then made to rate the items again. Here are the changes in ratings Brehm measured (and subsequently corrected for regression):

Source: Jack W. Brehm. "Post-decision changes in desirability of alternatives" (1956)

The data are pretty clear: after making their selection, respondents ended up holding their chosen item in higher regard and thinking less of the item they left behind. Brehm measured similar results with a group of participants who, before rating items a second time, were given information cards listing both positive and negative details about their chosen and rejected items. Interestingly, he detected no significant rating shift when participants were randomly given one of the items. In other words, you're more likely to look objectively at the competition if your product was a gift than if you picked it yourself.
I have a fundamental issue with this study/article. It makes obviouse sense that respondents would rate their chosen items higher. If they were equally desireable at one point, then the respondent went through a choosing process in their mind before picking which one to take home. At THAT point, they had already decided which item they wanted and liked better and for what reason. This whole process was already done in their mind, before they made the decision to choose that item. This is what happens when we comparison shop for anything (electronics, clothes, food, and yes BMWs). So fanboys are fanboys because they went through a rational decision process of making a choice and then sticking with it?
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  #53  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
I have a fundamental issue with this study/article. It makes obviouse sense that respondents would rate their chosen items higher. If they were equally desireable at one point, then the respondent went through a choosing process in their mind before picking which one to take home. At THAT point, they had already decided which item they wanted and liked better and for what reason. This whole process was already done in their mind, before they made the decision to choose that item. This is what happens when we comparison shop for anything (electronics, clothes, food, and yes BMWs). So fanboys are fanboys because they went through a rational decision process of making a choice and then sticking with it?
I think this statement from the article is how I regard most fanboys - the manifestation of a rational process, whereby people attempt to validate and elevate themselves by loudly trumpeting the superiority of their choices?

I also sense in the F30 forum, that it's like a fanboy cult, where there are those who try to force their will on others who may be viewed as non-believers.

This statement by sr5959 brings home my point: "How come ALL the non-fanboy F30 bashers are driving old-shape 3s???"
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Last edited by beden1; 01-09-2013 at 02:32 PM.
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  #54  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Some styles are timeless, as long as done tastefully. No body complains about Porsche for keeping its design cue for generations to come. The F30 m-sport front style has changes, although subtle, are more inline with the M badge than the E90 m-sport. To me E90 m-sport was a half hearted attempt at the M look. The E90 335is on the other hand was more of a true M look, so is the F30 m-sport.

Notice I am not even arguing which of the above is really better looking, just how they compared to the latest true M models.
right, and the latest true M models are the previous generation... we could do this all day
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  #55  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:35 PM
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also i fail to see myself falling into the fanboy with an e92 category because I had the choice of waiting for the f30.

When i saw it, I chose the e92 LCI.
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  #56  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:36 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I think this statement from the article is how I regard most fanboys - the manifestation of a rational process, whereby people attempt to validate and elevate themselves by loudly trumpeting the superiority of their choices?

I also sense in the F30 forum, that it's like a fanboy cult, where there are those who try to force their will on others who may be viewed as non-believers.

This statement by sr5959 brings home my point: "How come ALL the non-fanboy F30 bashers are driving old-shape 3s???"
And, are you saying this is unique to the F30 section?

Is this any different than every other situation created by the launch of as new version, like E46-E90?
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  #57  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sr5959 View Post
How come ALL the non-fanboy F30 bashers are driving old-shape 3s???
I really can't classify myself as an F30 basher, but I do drive an "old-shape 3" as you put it. I'm happy with my 335is and don't plan to part with it anytime soon. But if I did want to, I would have to wait for the new coupe or convertible, as I have no need for a sedan because we already have one. I also would not want a 4 cylinder car at this stage in my life. I've been there and done that back in the 1970's.
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  #58  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
And, are you saying this is unique to the F30 section?

Is this any different than every other situation created by the launch of as new version, like E46-E90?
I don't know as I was not around then. But, possibly if BJ was around?
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Last edited by beden1; 01-09-2013 at 02:54 PM.
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  #59  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:41 PM
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The biggest F30 problem at the front end is the bumper itself. It is less bad on darker cars and there goes another reason to go with a M-Sport. Frankly the revisions you made are too minor to have an impact.
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  #60  
Old 01-09-2013, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
When I mentioned body roll, it wasn't as a complaint but rather a question to other F30 owners to see if there was a way I could reduce it.

When I mentioned ASS, it was just as BMW was releasing the fix for 'remember last position' and I was learning how to go about getting the update.

This is very different than lobbying every owner in every thread on how "BMW let us down and we need to prove to them that we want a different car!" I'm not looking for BMW to change a thing. If I were, I'd simply have bought a different car. What I was looking for back then was a better understanding of the F30 and the helpful people here were great, very supportive.
You have clearly considered adding sway bars (change things) to reduce body roll, and you were so happy when BMW "changed its design" after complaints about ASS, by allowing the dealers to disable it.

Quote:
You, on the other hand, have no interest in the F30, think it's not a worthy keeper of the 3 Series flame, and are just here to instigate. I know. I used to do it very well. Then I grew up and I stopped.
How do you know I have no interest in F30? I have plenty of interests in many things that are far from being perfect.

Quote:
Post a pic of your car. I want to see what the Great F30 Critic is driving.

BJ
For what? Beden1 posted pictures of his cars, including the P-car which is twice as much as your L328i, and most will agree a better looking car too, his opinions don't seem to impress you the least bit, as long as they differ from yours.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-09-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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  #61  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
right, and the latest true M models are the previous generation... we could do this all day
Previous M generation.

The issue I had with the E90 m-sport was, it was an half attempt at imitating the then current or previous M generations. It did not set it apart from the standard E90 as much as the F30 m-sport from the standard F30.
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  #62  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:12 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
I have a fundamental issue with this study/article. It makes obviouse sense that respondents would rate their chosen items higher. If they were equally desireable at one point, then the respondent went through a choosing process in their mind before picking which one to take home. At THAT point, they had already decided which item they wanted and liked better and for what reason. This whole process was already done in their mind, before they made the decision to choose that item. This is what happens when we comparison shop for anything (electronics, clothes, food, and yes BMWs). So fanboys are fanboys because they went through a rational decision process of making a choice and then sticking with it?
We constantly hear people say at first they did not like the look, but now they are warming up to it. Some might have decided to overlook some of the undesirable aspects and get it anyway, then over time rationalized the undesirable parts.
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  #63  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:12 PM
trinipirate trinipirate is offline
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the F30 is simply beautiful. Out w/ the old, in w/ the new.
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  #64  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Previous M generation.

The issue I had with the E90 m-sport was, it was an half attempt at imitating the then current or previous M generations. It did not set it apart from the standard E90 as much as the F30 m-sport from the standard F30.
But is the msport supposed to "imitate" previous generations? I thought one of BMW's cornerstones was progressive, artistic approach to design. I'm not a hardcore BMW enthusiast, but it seems to me that the designers (prior to this generation, anyway) always looked to not necessarily revolutionize but at least evolve design ideas before implementing them. This is why we no longer have the bangle butt, for example. Imitate current M yes, imitate previous gen, not so sure. Maybe "throwback" would be a better term.

I guess we wont really know until we see the M. But to me the current m-sport (front end at least) looks almost exactly like the e90 msport.

Last edited by chris328; 01-09-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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  #65  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:30 PM
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the F30 is simply beautiful. Out w/ the old, in w/ the new.
Viva La Fanboy!
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  #66  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:31 PM
Elk Elk is offline
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Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
i dont doubt that there any many people that prefer the look of the msport f30, but my guess is that it is probably the result of esotiril blue (msport exclusive paint) more than the front end and the sideskirts, as those look very similar to the e90/e92.
+1

It also surprises me the M-Sport looks a good deal more friendly than the F30; it is smiling. I would expect something more, not less, aggressive for the M-Sport.
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  #67  
Old 01-09-2013, 03:33 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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But to me the current m-sport (front end at least) looks almost exactly like the e90 msport.
Look at the pictures, I think they are far from "almost exactly alike." But in person they look more different. In any case, my point is, the F30 m-sport sets it apart from the other F30 trims. I didn't see enough difference between the looks of the E90 standard and E90 m-sport trims to be worthy of the extra money.
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  #68  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sr5959 View Post
How come ALL the non-fanboy F30 bashers are driving old-shape 3s???
Jealousy.

The two biggest offenders deliberately bought the old bodystyle instead of waiting for the new one, in effect deliberately choosing to be obsolete the moment they picked up their cars and for years thereafter.

Of course the only way to live with that decision is to show up as an unwelcome guest in the new 3 Series forum and bash the F30. You'd think as such "champions" of the E9X that they'd be treated like BMW royalty over in the E9X forum. Guess not.

BJ
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  #69  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:38 PM
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F30 is a good looking car a lot better than an e90 LCI or not. But for me m sport just took it up another notch.
Agreed ! The F30 M Sport offers a significant improvement in styling over the standard F30 lines.
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  #70  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post

I also sense in the F30 forum, that it's like a fanboy cult, where there are those who try to force their will on others who may be viewed as non-believers.

This statement by sr5959 brings home my point: "How come ALL the non-fanboy F30 bashers are driving old-shape 3s???"
How about this explanation:

"Those who own F30's are happy with their decisions, they all owned E90's, and they are excited to have a forum in which to discuss their enthusiasm for their cars."

The "cult" status is reserved for late-model E9X owners who can't handle the sad truth that they deliberately bought out-of-style obsolete cars as new and need to shove their insecurities in our faces.

Go back to the E9X forum where you belong.

BJ
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  #71  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
The biggest F30 problem at the front end is the bumper itself. It is less bad on darker cars and there goes another reason to go with a M-Sport. Frankly the revisions you made are too minor to have an impact.
The biggest problem with the 2007 E90 is that it looks like it was designed by a Japanese Pachinko Factory, the Bangle stuff destroying the front and rear of an otherwise pedestrian car.

The good news? You can buy a 2007 E90 for $4,800 in any used car lot in America. Might buy one myself for my 13 year old son to cut his teeth enroute to a learner's permit.

BJ
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  #72  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post

For what? Beden1 posted pictures of his cars, including the P-car which is twice as much as your L328i, and most will agree a better looking car too, his opinions don't seem to impress you the least bit, as long as they differ from yours.
Post a pic of your 2011 328i right now. Or is the problem that you don't even own one. Never considered that, but it makes a lot of sense.

BJ
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  #73  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
We constantly hear people say at first they did not like the look, but now they are warming up to it. Some might have decided to overlook some of the undesirable aspects and get it anyway, then over time rationalized the undesirable parts.
+1

I did that with my E90. Ignored the weird eyelids that look like a Geisha girl, ignored the awkward rear taillights that were incongruent with everything else, ignored the Bangled hood and rocker panels, ignored the bland interior straight out of a 1980 Acura.

Fortunately, BMW corrected all of this in the F30. Was love at first sight, no warming-up period necessary.

BJ
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  #74  
Old 01-09-2013, 05:01 PM
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UnderSteer UnderSteer is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The biggest problem with the 2007 E90 is that it looks like it was designed by a Japanese Pachinko Factory, the Bangle stuff destroying the front and rear of an otherwise pedestrian car.

The good news? You can buy a 2007 E90 for $4,800 in any used car lot in America. Might buy one myself for my 13 year old son to cut his teeth enroute to a learner's permit.

BJ
Your role as the self imposed gatekeeper of the F30 forum is getting very tired. This is an internet discussion forum and is not restricted to F30 drivers. Everyone is entitled to post here whether you happen to like it or not and it is not to you to police this forum and tell people what forums they should or should not be posting in or what they are and are not allowed to post.

When you had an E93 that was the best BMW model ever man made and 4 door sedans were low status "family grocery getters". When you didn't have a nav system or any options they weren't necessary because if they didn't impress Mr. and Mrs Camry what was the point. When you had an M-Sport that was the greatest thing since sliced bread. When you had a comparatively slow 328 with the GM transmission anyone who wanted more acceleration was a speed demon that wanted to "race soccer moms in school zones."

If you want to control an Internet forum a man of your means should have no trouble starting one of his own. Then you can ban anyone who disagrees with you or who does not think that the F30 is the greatest car ever created.

And you should be the last person here to talk about insecurities.
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  #75  
Old 01-09-2013, 05:04 PM
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Saintor Saintor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The biggest problem with the 2007 E90 is that it looks like it was designed by a Japanese Pachinko Factory, the Bangle stuff destroying the front and rear of an otherwise pedestrian car.

The good news? You can buy a 2007 E90 for $4,800 in any used car lot in America. Might buy one myself for my 13 year old son to cut his teeth enroute to a learner's permit.

BJ

Err... want it or not, the E90 proportions and roofline was such a success that they kept most of it for the F01/10/30.

The tailights were fixed with 2009 LCI.

The quality of the materials used in the red-leather 128i 2013 I drove the last days were much better than any F30. That N52 was feeling highly sophisticated and just right in a premium car (unlike the N20).
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