anyone go from longtime auto driver to manual?

Originally Posted by dan-kc

it is sad so few people, and women drive sticks. not being able to share the car with someone else is a real downside.

This is one of the hidden upsides of being gay. All the guys I've dated drive stick.

-James
San Francisco, CA

If you need to be shifting an MT to concentrate on driving or to prevent you from texting you probably shouldn't be driving. What do you do when you are on an Interstate or on a road like Route 75 (Alligator Alley) in Florida which is a 100 mile totally straight, totally flat stretch of road that can usually taken in top gear at steady speed without having to shift gears?



"Sorry officer this car is an Automatic and I was so distracted I didn't realize how fast I was going."

CA

At the very least, I would test drive both a sports auto with the paddles and a manual.

Originally Posted by dan-kc

prob i agree with the person who said that with a stick, he focuses on driving, and agree the stick must be much safer these days as you stay centered in your seat over the wheel focused on driving, instead of giving in to the urges of multi-tasking.

One doesn't need to be driving an automatic to multitask. I've observed plenty of manual drivers multitasking.

Originally Posted by dan-kc

i also wonder if guys who easily prefer an auto never grew up driving with a stick and a fast car or motorcycle revving the heck out of it and having that desire burnt into their dna.

I started out on a manual and drove one for many, many years. At some point in my life I realized what you described above is no longer how I drive my vehicles. While I enjoy the feel of my BMW I no longer play Mario Andretti on the public roads. Ah the joys of growing older.

If you get exhausted while driving, you might want to hit the gym a bit more
If not your yourself, for the rest of us, get a stick! We don't need more distracted drivers!

Originally Posted by otonimus

Downshifting saves your brakes, not gas. Mileage is directly related to rpm's, and downshifting causes your rpm's to go up, not down.

Wrong. The engine crank spins because of the normal combustion cycle (which uses gas) or because of something external (the cars momentum spinning the wheels which goes through the transmission to the engine). Modern engines don't add fuel when coasting because the moving car keeps the engine moving. In neutral (no connection between engine and wheels) the ecu must maintain an idle rev to keep the engine from stalling.

Just because the revs are high doesn't mean more fuel is used.

So, dan-kc, has this thread actually helped? Have you made a decision? Have you driven one of each yet?

walrus - it has helped a lot. thanks for asking. i think it is wise (and many would say obvious) to drive both stick and auto for a while before buying - and not trust my memory about how i'd like it from driving my stick e36 15 years ago. it may just be a bit harder to do this, as there are really no f30 sticks at dealers. but i'm sure an e90 stick will be similar enough. i have driven a 328 and 335 auto f30. the 4 cylinder engine felt too much like a 4 cylinder, and the 6 engine felt great, but even with sport, and even while it shifts better than probably all other cars out there, i still felt like it wasn't shifting exactly when i wanted. and i hate all those comfort modes. i want the thing shifting as fast as possible every time i drive, and taking off at the lightest touch of the gas pedal, every time. who would want less? i feel the manual will give me more control and the computer less. i was expecting a lot of flames about my hints at distracted driving, and was impressed at how few i got. glad folks stayed on the point at hand. i am probably no worse than others. i guess i'm not sure where i am in the young kid (stick) vs. old man (auto) spectrum. when i find out i'll repost back.

Glad to hear it! You'll likely have to custom order (I did). But it's worth the wait to get what you want.

Originally Posted by dan-kc

walrus - it has helped a lot. thanks for asking. i think it is wise (and many would say obvious) to drive both stick and auto for a while before buying - and not trust my memory about how i'd like it from driving my stick e36 15 years ago. it may just be a bit harder to do this, as there are really no f30 sticks at dealers. but i'm sure an e90 stick will be similar enough. i have driven a 328 and 335 auto f30. the 4 cylinder engine felt too much like a 4 cylinder, and the 6 engine felt great, but even with sport, and even while it shifts better than probably all other cars out there, i still felt like it wasn't shifting exactly when i wanted. and i hate all those comfort modes. i want the thing shifting as fast as possible every time i drive, and taking off at the lightest touch of the gas pedal, every time. who would want less? i feel the manual will give me more control and the computer less. i was expecting a lot of flames about my hints at distracted driving, and was impressed at how few i got. glad folks stayed on the point at hand. i am probably no worse than others. i guess i'm not sure where i am in the young kid (stick) vs. old man (auto) spectrum. when i find out i'll repost back.

Did you test drive a car with the sport auto option, which adds flappy paddles? With those in sport mode you should be able to control your gear completely except for under revving.

yes, i did drive a "sport line" with the paddle shifters. i'm sure it's great for an auto

FWIW a perspective on "Serious drivers only drive MT".

About a year ago I was at a party at the home of a friend who is a retired race driver. I won't mention his name but there are a number of posters here who have met him at functions that I have sponsored and know who I am talking about. This particular driver was a national champion in several series, won the Daytona 24 hour, and the 12 Hours of Sebring, drove in Formula 1, the Indy 500 and finished in the top 10 in several 24 hours of LeMans. Other attendees at the party included several drivers who had competed in Formula 1 (including a woman) and who had had podium finishes and wins at the Daytona 24 Hour, the 12 Hours of Sebring and who had been national SCCA champions. Other attendees were professional racing coaches, Skip Barber Instructors, etc. The conversation turned to whether an MT provided better control than an AT (and we were talking about both DCTs and state of the art "conventional" ATs like the ZF box in the F30). The consensus was that a modern AT or DCT gave the driver full control over gear selection.

As it turned out although all of them owned cars with MTs (mainly classic sports cars) almost all of them had ATs as their daily drivers. One of them had an M3 with the DCT. When I asked the driver of the M3 DCT how he liked it his response was "It shifts better than I can". This was the Senior Skip Barber instructor who taught me how to heel and toe and double clutch so if it shifts better than he can it sure as hell shifts better than I can. Several of the others had 5 Series and X5s with the Steptronic, one had a Porsche Cayenne with the Tiptronic and one had a Jaguar XKR and one had an Audi sedan. The only daily driver with an MT was a Mini Cooper. What I found interesting is that many of them said they tended to leave the car in automatic mode and rarely used the paddles.

From my own personal experience (and I certainly am not in the same league as the people I was talking to) I regularly drive both MT and AT cars. Both my BMWs (335i and 750Li) have Steptronics. I almost always leave them in automatic mode as I rarely find that I need to be in a different gear than the one the car has selected. When I am in manual mode (generally I do that in the 335i, rarely in the 7) I find that the shifts are very fast and that I have no trouble getting the car into the gear that I want. I don't think I have ever said to myself "gee I wish this thing would shift faster".

If you enjoy driving an MT I can fully understand that and I would never try to convince a die hard MT fan to get an AT but claims that an MT gives better control of the car may have been valid in the days of two speed powerglides but with todays ATs with locking torque converters, rev matching on downshifts and lighting fast shifts that is no longer the case.

Edit: I drove MTs in NYC traffic for years and had no issue with it. As for the "old vs. young" argument I think that it is more likely that an older person knows how to drive an MT than a younger person. We Baby Boomers grew up with "Four on the Floor" and most of us have American Muscle and Pony Cars, British Roadsters and even VW Beetles in our automotive past.

CA

The ZF 8 speed and M-DCT are superb. Absolutely superb. As much as I love a MT, the AT has come a long way.The ZF Sport Auto in the 3 honestly feels like a twin clutch. It's that good.

Originally Posted by dan-kc

yes, i did drive a "sport line" with the paddle shifters. i'm sure it's great for an auto

Just FYI if you have sports auto and the car in sports mode the car will still shift comfort mode style unless you shift the lever to the left and see S1-8 on the console. With those two modes set I challenge anyone with a MT to shift better. Hell I have stopped using the paddles for 90% of my driving because the sports shifting was more effective smoother and faster than anything I could do.

I just wish I could have the car stay in those modes as I use them for 99% of my driving. Even in city traffic