What I Hate About The Look of the Front of an F30

Originally Posted by Elk

While others' posts can be inappropriate at times, the others will back off the instant you do.

That's fine, I can make the first move.

BJ

Originally Posted by captainaudio

The IDrive screen in the F30 may look like an "afterthought" to some people" but looking like an afterthought and actually being an afterthought are two very different things. Since the F30 interior was a new design and since BMW had been putting iDrive screens in cars for many years I think it is rather obvious that iDrive was going to be an integral part of the design of the interior and the interior was designed with the iDrive screen in mind. I personally am not that crazy about it but it certainly would not be a deal breaker.

As for being more in the line of the drivers sight than the screen on the E90 I think that is irrelevant. If you are looking at the screen you are not looking at the road ahead and the 1 or 2 inches higher that the screen in the E90 is mounted does not change that fact. You can easily demonstrate this easily with a simple experiment. Sit about 25 feet from your television and then hold a laptop computer at arms length and focus on the computer screen. You will not Br able to see what is going on on the television without looking up and refocusing. You will find that holding the laptop a few inches higher or lower makes no difference. There will be no position where you will be able to focus on the TV (i.e. the road ahead) and the laptop screen (i.e. iDrive) at the same time.

Well captain, while I agree with the result of your experiment, after trying it myself, I must say it has a lot to do with our advanced aging process. The outcome could be different for a guy/gal 20 years junior.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Well captain, while I agree with the result of your experiment, after trying it myself, I must say it has a lot to do with our advanced aging process. The outcome could be different for a guy/gal 20 years junior.

It wont be. I actually originally devised that experiment for a project that I was working on for a consulting client. We tried it with people of various ages including young children (who actually did not do as well as many adults).

A problem that most drivers have is that they do not look for enough ahead. I became acutely aware of this when I first started learning to drive on a track. It is a very hard habit to break.

CA

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

That's fine, I can make the first move.

BJ

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I think the F30 has more of the "generic BMW" look than the E90 did. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing and I actually prefer the look of the F30, particularly when compared to the pre-LCI E90, but as I have stated before I am not on the market for a small sedan so although I am sure the E90 is a very nice car I will not be buying one.

I am following this forum because I may be interested in the 4 Series when it comes out.

CA

I will be interested in the 4 series, when the LCI hits. No denying that the profile is gorgeous. Like some others though, I can't stand how the lights meet the grille.

Originally Posted by cwsqbm

That's what guys say when they marry ugly chicks. Some say love is blind, but its just rationalization.

Hehehe...that's funny! And actually may be quite true. Cars are often compared to women for a reason... or the other way around. The only thing I'm definitely going to be married to is this new car so I better rationalize it!!

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Jealousy.

The two biggest offenders deliberately bought the old bodystyle instead of waiting for the new one, in effect deliberately choosing to be obsolete the moment they picked up their cars and for years thereafter.

Of course the only way to live with that decision is to show up as an unwelcome guest in the new 3 Series forum and bash the F30. You'd think as such "champions" of the E9X that they'd be treated like BMW royalty over in the E9X forum. Guess not.

BJ

Jesus Christ dude you make so many assumptions, I can hardly tell if you're serious half the time. My intent is not to bash the F30 but seems so many people are so insecure about their F30s and how it looks, it's impossible to say anything negative about it without being harrangued.

To me, it seems BMW is allowing "budget conscious design" to pervade into the 3 and 4 series when it should be contained at the 1 series and 2 series level. Isn't that the main reason they made the 1 in the first place? Even worse (and I hope this is not the case), it almost seems as if they purposefully have made the F30 look cheaper, as a backdoor way of trying to convince people to buy higher end models (poor man's resolution for lack of innovation in the 5, 6 and 7 series)

Im getting rid of this E92 in the summer. Even though it is the LCI, can't wait to get out of it. I see them all over the place now. I'm glad I made the decision to get it, cause now I'm lined up nicely for an F32. Had I gone with the F30, might not have been the case.

Originally Posted by chris328

To me, it seems BMW is allowing "budget conscious design" to pervade into the 3 and 4 series when it should be contained at the 1 series and 2 series level. Isn't that the main reason they made the 1 in the first place? Even worse (and I hope this is not the case), it almost seems as if they purposefully have made the F30 look cheaper, as a backdoor way of trying to convince people to buy higher end models (poor man's resolution for lack of innovation in the 5, 6 and 7 series)

When I was test driving an F30 the other night, I was sort of thinking along the same lines. They had an M6 in the show room. Unfortunately, I made a mistake and sat in that first. Then I sat in the F30.

I'm still geting an F30 of course, but I sort of feel like there is a big drop from the 5, 6, 7 to the 3 in terms of luxury & quality of materials.

But then again, there is a HUGE GAP between a Chevy Malibu and a 335 too, so it's all relative...

Plus the 3's interior is comparable to the ATS and Mercedes' C class...Actually, I think it's even better. So it's very competitive in it's price class.

Originally Posted by KLC

I've never understood these afterthought feelings. I dislike nav screens that are being swallowed up by the dash. I think the design in the f30 is refreshing and looks great. They certainly don't design cars and throw in idrive screens as an afterthought.

It was probably designed into the dash that way but it sure a hell looks like a "afterthought" IMO and many others.
cheers
vern

Originally Posted by chris328

To me, it seems BMW is allowing "budget conscious design" to pervade into the 3 and 4 series when it should be contained at the 1 series and 2 series level. Isn't that the main reason they made the 1 in the first place? Even worse (and I hope this is not the case), it almost seems as if they purposefully have made the F30 look cheaper, as a backdoor way of trying to convince people to buy higher end models (poor man's resolution for lack of innovation in the 5, 6 and 7 series)

Im getting rid of this E92 in the summer. Even though it is the LCI, can't wait to get out of it. I see them all over the place now. I'm glad I made the decision to get it, cause now I'm lined up nicely for an F32. Had I gone with the F30, might not have been the case.

Having owned an E93 and E90 as you do, I don't see how there is anything "budget" about the F30 vs. the prior generation. If you are talking about the $37,000 base model with its small wheels, lack of exterior touches, and small LCD screen perhaps, but a decently optioned Line car exceeds the E90 from a luxury/quality standpoint.

There is nothing "budget conscious" about the F30 interior. The materials, fit/finish are the equal of the E90, and the new design, lighting, audio system, and standard iDrive is a major upgrade.

For the most part, your typical F30 compared to an E90 has added exterior chrome, added black gloss, turn signals in the side mirrors, larger wheels, a 3-dimensional articulated grill, and a wider/lower stance. Strictly from a 'look' standpoint, the car appears more expensive, not cheaper.

BJ

Originally Posted by krash

When Navs first came out (a decade ago), they definitely were slamming them into the car as an afterthought. All car companies were guilty of it. Nobody wanted to be left behind, and many interior designs back then just weren't conducive to the Nav screens.

Today it's different. Nav displays are an integral part of interior designs.

I took an f30 out for a test drive during the night, and the Nav system was absolutely wonderful. In day light hours, I could see why some people might think the Nav was put in as an afterthought. I thought the same thing the first time I saw it, but when driving, it's in the absolute perfect position as far as Nav systems go.

WORST NAV SYSTEM EVER = E46

Most people who crap on the F30 Nav placement have never used it. Especially combined with the HUD, the F30 Nav placement is much easier to see (it's higher on the dash) all the while not cluttering your line-of-sight with a massive hump.

As a former E92 owner, the old 'nav hump' is a failure in design as well as ergonomics.

You guys think the F30 Nav screen looks like a stuck-on afterthought? Try this new 2014 Mercedes CLA:

Originally Posted by krash

When I was test driving an F30 the other night, I was sort of thinking along the same lines. They had an M6 in the show room. Unfortunately, I made a mistake and sat in that first. Then I sat in the F30.

I'm still geting an F30 of course, but I sort of feel like there is a big drop from the 5, 6, 7 to the 3 in terms of luxury & quality of materials.

But then again, there is a HUGE GAP between a Chevy Malibu and a 335 too, so it's all relative...

Plus the 3's interior is comparable to the ATS and Mercedes' C class...Actually, I think it's even better. So it's very competitive in it's price class.

But that was the case with the prior generation too. If you sat in a 5, 6, or 7 back in 2008 compared to the 3 you'd feel the same differences in design and features. In many cases, the differences were far more significant.

Today, the 3 looks like a smaller-footprint 5 on the exterior and has some of the dashboard and interior flair of the 6. Standard iDrive, new lighting, classy chrome touches, upgraded audio system, smartphone integration, leather stitching, head-up display and so on.

Comparing the F30 to the current MB and Audi is a strong win for BMW, and comparing it to the E90 is a nice step in the right direction as well with the Line choices and new standard equipment.

BJ

Originally Posted by Elk

Unfortunately, it concerns all of us.

Please adjust your posting style to expressing your opinions without deriding others. Your opinions are valid, your incessant insults are not. Others' opinions are validly expressed as well - regardless of the car they own.

While others' posts can be inappropriate at times, the others will back off the instant you do.

Try it. It will be a great experiment in group behavior. Embrace your inner Buddha.

Give us a break, get off your soap box.
cheers
vern

Originally Posted by SamS

Most people who crap on the F30 Nav placement have never used it. Especially combined with the HUD, the F30 Nav placement is much easier to see (it's higher on the dash) all the while not cluttering your line-of-sight with a massive hump.

As a former E92 owner, the old 'nav hump' is a failure in design as well as ergonomics.

Exactly.

From a purely functional standpoint, the new LCD is easier to see and takes up less physical space. Easier to use it, easier to see all around it, better visibility, better safety. Not to mention, getting it off the dash has led to bigger air vents that are positioned closer to the driver, center stack buttons that are easier to get to, and an uplift that allows room for real cupholders. It has a lot of benefits.

Additionally, burying these screens in the middle of the center stack isn't going to fly in the future with any car maker. Lots of discussion on distracted driving, federal regulations likely coming. They'll all wind up atop the dash instead of beneath it. I can't see how BMW could have done it any better. They basically took an E90 design, shaved off all the shroud plastic, and moved the screen higher by an inch. That MB thing looks like a picture frame, yuck. Our F30 looks like half an iPad. Eiither way, it puts the information in the right spot and takes up as little room as possible.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

But that was the case with the prior generation too. If you sat in a 5, 6, or 7 back in 2008 compared to the 3 you'd feel the same differences in design and features. In many cases, the differences were far more significant.

Today, the 3 looks like a smaller-footprint 5 on the exterior and has some of the dashboard and interior flair of the 6. Standard iDrive, new lighting, classy chrome touches, upgraded audio system, smartphone integration, leather stitching, head-up display and so on.

Comparing the F30 to the current MB and Audi is a strong win for BMW, and comparing it to the E90 is a nice step in the right direction as well with the Line choices and new standard equipment.

BJ

Yes, good point, it's really sort of silly to think otherwise.

Of course the 3 series will always look cheaper than the 5.

Samething applies to all other carmakers.

Infiniti: G looks cheaper than M
Lexus: ES looks cheaper than GS
Mercedes: C looks cheaper than E

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

I will be interested in the 4 series, when the LCI hits. No denying that the profile is gorgeous. Like some others though, I can't stand how the lights meet the grille.

I have wondered if painting the outer grills body color might make people a bit less offended by the grille and headlight contact.

Originally Posted by krash

When I was test driving an F30 the other night, I was sort of thinking along the same lines. They had an M6 in the show room. Unfortunately, I made a mistake and sat in that first. Then I sat in the F30.

I'm still geting an F30 of course, but I sort of feel like there is a big drop from the 5, 6, 7 to the 3 in terms of luxury & quality of materials.

But then again, there is a HUGE GAP between a Chevy Malibu and a 335 too, so it's all relative...

Plus the 3's interior is comparable to the ATS and Mercedes' C class...Actually, I think it's even better. So it's very competitive in it's price class.

Have you sat in a new Malibu? The materials used in the mainstream family cars, or even in the subcompacts, are no longer cheap looking. The gap is not nearly as much as they used to be.

Originally Posted by SamS

Most people who crap on the F30 Nav placement have never used it. Especially combined with the HUD, the F30 Nav placement is much easier to see (it's higher on the dash) all the while not cluttering your line-of-sight with a massive hump.

As a former E92 owner, the old 'nav hump' is a failure in design as well as ergonomics.

You guys think the F30 Nav screen looks like a stuck-on afterthought? Try this new 2014 Mercedes CLA:

MB is going for retro funky look these days, people will either hate it or love it. BMW is taking a more conservative approach. The 5, 6, and 7 all have nav units with built in look. I guess they thought for the 3, they could let it loose a little.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Have you sat in a new Malibu? The materials used in the mainstream family cars, or even in the subcompacts, are no longer cheap looking. The gap is not nearly as much as they used to be.

hmmm...

Originally Posted by dtc100

MB is going for retro funky look these days, people will either hate it or love it. BMW is taking a more conservative approach. The 5, 6, and 7 all have nav units with built in look. I guess they thought for the 3, they could let it loose a little.

The 6 has basically a flat panel screen at the top in the center of the dash too...It's just dressed up a little more.

Originally Posted by krash

hmmm...

I bet some will say the Malibu interior is more luxurious. It is a matter of taste. What I am referring to is the materials used in the modern mainstream cars, they are no longer cheap looking.

Originally Posted by dtc100

I bet some will say the Malibu interior is more luxurious. It is a matter of taste. What I am referring to is the materials used in the modern mainstream cars, they are no longer cheap looking.

Yeah, actually, I'm sort of surprised by the Malibu. Not that I like it, but it seems much more upgraded than I ever expected.

Good critique plus I appreciate you're providing an alternative look. However I must disagree, the front fascia is the most interesting view of the F30. It accomplishes BMW's intent to visually make the car look wider and more aggressive. With that being said, was it the best solution for introducing the new generation of three series sedan? No! I feel BMW took an overly cautious approach to the re-designing the new 3ER. I would have preferred BMW introducing the car with an entirely new shape or form featuring the classic kidney grills as in the four series coupe and sedan, instead of giving the F30 a make-over.

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

Good critique plus I appreciate you're providing an alternative look. However I must disagree, the front fascia is the most interesting view of the F30. It accomplishes BMW's intent to visually make the car look wider and more aggressive. With that being said, was it the best solution for introducing the new generation of three series sedan? No! I feel BMW took an overly cautious approach to the re-designing the new 3ER. I would have preferred BMW introducing the car with an entirely new shape or form featuring the classic kidney grills as in the four series coupe and sedan, instead of giving the F30 a make-over.

It is a business decision I think. They did not want to be too bold. Below is a bold approach for the new design, the 2014 Lexus IS350 F sport:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Having owned an E93 and E90 as you do, I don't see how there is anything "budget" about the F30 vs. the prior generation. If you are talking about the $37,000 base model with its small wheels, lack of exterior touches, and small LCD screen perhaps, but a decently optioned Line car exceeds the E90 from a luxury/quality standpoint.

There is nothing "budget conscious" about the F30 interior. The materials, fit/finish are the equal of the E90, and the new design, lighting, audio system, and standard iDrive is a major upgrade.

For the most part, your typical F30 compared to an E90 has added exterior chrome, added black gloss, turn signals in the side mirrors, larger wheels, a 3-dimensional articulated grill, and a wider/lower stance. Strictly from a 'look' standpoint, the car appears more expensive, not cheaper.

BJ

fair enough. however let me correct you, I never had an E90. Had this been the case I would have left it alone 5 years ago when all the icy hot stuntaz started driving them.