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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 01-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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Yeah, I thought it was a bit misleading myself. I also want to see dyno's of the F10 n55 w/ flash tune, not just the F30 n55. My 535i is not my DD, so the down time would not be an issue for me. MiamiB will let me borrow his BMS stage 1 piggyback tune (used to be RambleJs) . I would eventually like to get the flash tune based on RambleJ's past experience. Again, I want to see that OE Tuning has spent time specifically on the F10 n55. I worry that some think that just because it is a n55 engine that it will be the same as offered in the more numerous F30.

I was wondering if a flash tune would be lost if a dealer does an update. I know coding is lost by dealer updates.
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2013, 03:23 PM
qadhi79 qadhi79 is online now
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Originally Posted by BigDeep1 View Post
Yeah, I thought it was a bit misleading myself. I also want to see dyno's of the F10 n55 w/ flash tune, not just the F30 n55. My 535i is not my DD, so the down time would not be an issue for me. MiamiB will let me borrow his BMS stage 1 piggyback tune (used to be RambleJs) . I would eventually like to get the flash tune based on RambleJ's past experience. Again, I want to see that OE Tuning has spent time specifically on the F10 n55. I worry that some think that just because it is a n55 engine that it will be the same as offered in the more numerous F30.

I was wondering if a flash tune would be lost if a dealer does an update. I know coding is lost by dealer updates.
Flash tune is lost after a dealer update..so better if you can wait till they develop OBD2 tune..its stealthy as no additional hardware is installed and you can always flash the stock tune when going for service and flash the performance tune again when you are back..I did this a lot of times with my ML63 AMG and the dealer never detected anything
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2013, 03:57 PM
RambleJ RambleJ is offline
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Originally Posted by qadhi79 View Post
Flash tune is lost after a dealer update..so better if you can wait till they develop OBD2 tune..its stealthy as no additional hardware is installed and you can always flash the stock tune when going for service and flash the performance tune again when you are back..I did this a lot of times with my ML63 AMG and the dealer never detected anything
Whether you wait for the OBD tune or have your DME bench flashed is the same outcome. When I had the OE tune on my N54, i took my car in for several services (Big ones like turbo failure, water pump failure, transmission issues ) and the tune was never noticed or flagged. I never erased it, just dropped the car of as is.

And yes Deep if the dealership does a program update you will lose the flash. But OE will honor the wipe and reflash your car.
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Last edited by RambleJ; 01-11-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2013, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
And yes Deep if the dealership does a program update you will lose the flash. But OE will honor the wipe and reflash your car.
Thanks guys. That sucks to have down time after every dealer re-program. I would guess that would be almost a once or twice a year down time. It also takes effort to remove and ship this expensive brain. Oh well, as they say: gotta pay to play!!
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
When I had the OE tune on my N54, i took my car in for several services (Big ones like turbo failure, water pump failure, transmission issues ) and the tune was never noticed or flagged. I never erased it, just dropped the car of as is.
When I flashed my E90 with the Active Autowerke tune I took my car to the dealer for services and warranty repairs and the dealer never noticed the tune.

I'll be watching the development of this tune very closely since I'll probably buy it as soon as it becomes available and they can provide a dyno sheet of an F10.
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  #31  
Old 01-11-2013, 07:18 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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I personally prefer Burger tune.
Checkout my review here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=668861
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  #32  
Old 01-11-2013, 09:15 PM
wildcardz wildcardz is offline
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Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
I personally prefer Burger tune.
Checkout my review here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=668861
How can you say that you prefer the burger tune when you haven't used the OE yet? It's not even available yet.
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  #33  
Old 01-11-2013, 09:40 PM
smashhell smashhell is offline
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Originally Posted by wildcardz View Post
How can you say that you prefer the burger tune when you haven't used the OE yet? It's not even available yet.
Because from the specs they revealed it seems to be about the same gain(or less) as Burger tune.
But the Burger tune is cheaper.
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  #34  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:07 PM
qadhi79 qadhi79 is online now
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Let me tell you the difference. The burger tune or similar tunes that require you to install the "tune" by connecting it to engine electronics are actually messing up with your engine. The ECU relies on data collected by several sensors installed in the car and these "tunes" feed incorrect values to these sensors. Yes, they give you hp and torque but you get a lot of visible and invisible trouble codes during the process. These so called "tunes" do not require a reinstallation after dealer upgrade as they never actually write anything to ECU since they work by feeding retarded values all the time!

A bench tune or OBD2 tune is an actual performance remap of how the engine performs and replaces the stock map. Since tunes directly access the ECU, you get more power and a lot of torque as these tunes have the potential of changing certain values not accessible by the "retard tunes".

Personally I would never install burgertune or anything similar..no offense..they do work but I prefer getting a real remap tune for the reasons mentioned above.

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  #35  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qadhi79 View Post
Let me tell you the difference. The burger tune or similar tunes that require you to install the "tune" by connecting it to engine electronics are actually messing up with your engine. The ECU relies on data collected by several sensors installed in the car and these "tunes" feed incorrect values to these sensors. Yes, they give you hp and torque but you get a lot of visible and invisible trouble codes during the process. These so called "tunes" do not require a reinstallation after dealer upgrade as they never actually write anything to ECU since they work by feeding retarded values all the time!

A bench tune or OBD2 tune is an actual performance remap of how the engine performs and replaces the stock map. Since tunes directly access the ECU, you get more power and a lot of torque as these tunes have the potential of changing certain values not accessible by the "retard tunes".

Personally I would never install burgertune or anything similar..no offense..they do work but I prefer getting a real remap tune for the reasons mentioned above.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Bimmer App
Wow, great explanation!! It is too bad that there have not been any true ECU re-flash tunes for our beloved F10 n55.

FWIW, I would still use the Burger tune. It's not perfect, but it gives you performance gains with no visible codes at a true value. When OE Tuning or any other company has a legitimate OBDII flash tune at a price point hopefully less than $1k, I will be all over it. I love the Cobb "flash tuner" design. They just need to get it applied to our step-child n55 platform.-

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/66260...t-flash-tuner/
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  #36  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:02 AM
qadhi79 qadhi79 is online now
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Originally Posted by BigDeep1 View Post
Wow, great explanation!! It is too bad that there have not been any true ECU re-flash tunes for our beloved F10 n55.

FWIW, I would still use the Burger tune. It's not perfect, but it gives you performance gains with no visible codes at a true value. When OE Tuning or any other company has a legitimate OBDII flash tune at a price point hopefully less than $1k, I will be all over it. I love the Cobb "flash tuner" design. They just need to get it applied to our step-child n55 platform.-

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/66260...t-flash-tuner/
OBD2 tunes would cost around $600-$700 plus the cost of OBD2 flasher. OETuning, Eurocharged, etc use Dimsport MyGenius device so its going be less than $1k for the whole package which typically includes the OBD2 flashing device and 4 tunes of your choice.
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:26 PM
RambleJ RambleJ is offline
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Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
Because from the specs they revealed it seems to be about the same gain(or less) as Burger tune.
But the Burger tune is cheaper.
Apparently you do not understnd the difference between a flash tune and a piggy back. As stated earlier in this thread, a piggy back send false data to the comp through the sensor relays making the comp increase certain things such as boost. This has an end result of more power and torque in a roundabout way. A flash tune goes into your ECU and rewriites the data tables to give you a complete tune.
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RambleJ View Post
Apparently you do not understnd the difference between a flash tune and a piggy back. As stated earlier in this thread, a piggy back send false data to the comp through the sensor relays making the comp increase certain things such as boost. This has an end result of more power and torque in a roundabout way. A flash tune goes into your ECU and rewriites the data tables to give you a complete tune.
I'm with ramble here. I'm not new to piggyback tuning, I had an apex i fuel management piggyback computer on a 600 whp car and I didn't liked the way the piggyback system works, fooling the ECU by giving false sensor readouts for the computer to compensate with more boost and fuel. Needles to say I change to a standalone setup (MOTEC)

By the OE tuning flash been only a $136 diference from burger tuning stage 2 is a no brainier for me, and hopefully OE also changed the cooling maps like Dinan, that will be a big plus. I respect others decitions in choosing burger tuning, I guess that is a good thing having different types of tunes to choose for. To each their own
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Last edited by Mr. Grumpy; 01-14-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2013, 04:33 AM
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Coming from a cheaper car culture with whole lot more tuning support at least in the states, OBDII are the way to go. It leaves the end user with so many options to adjust depending on the situation, including fuel grade, emissions testing etc...etc. It also leaves the option to go back to stock if problems arise, plus you are not changing the signals, you are changing the source programing which is far safer.
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  #40  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:07 PM
wildcardz wildcardz is offline
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So this OE tune will be OBDII? Meaning we won't have to remove ECU and mail in?
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  #41  
Old 01-16-2013, 02:40 PM
RambleJ RambleJ is offline
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So this OE tune will be OBDII? Meaning we won't have to remove ECU and mail in?
Not yet... maybe I will reach out to OE and see if I can be a vendor for Texas..
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  #42  
Old 02-05-2013, 01:53 PM
wildcardz wildcardz is offline
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Any update on this?
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  #43  
Old 02-05-2013, 02:11 PM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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A legitimate flash tune is always preferred over a piggyback system. The problem now is that it isn't available for the F10 yet and those that are needs you to remove the ecu and ship it out to them. The ECU is also mounted under the intake manifold on this car so its not easy to get to which is done on purpose by BMW.

That said, flash tunes also opens up a whole different can of worms and you really need a lot of R&D for it to be safe to use. Its not as simple as just upping the boost and you are done. Lots of things to change or the car will trigger its own fail safes/fault codes. A company as big as COBB still took almost a year after being released to really iron out some kinks. I bought the Cobb N54 tune the day it was available so I know some of the strange issues it had.

I wouldn't want any average joe try a flash tune on my 70K BMW potentially bricking it.

Hopefully ESS, OE tuning, COBB and Dinan will come through sometime this century with something special for us.

Alan
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  #44  
Old 02-05-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
Hopefully ESS, OE tuning, COBB and Dinan will come through sometime this century with something special for us.

I spoke with a Dinan rep 2 months ago and they said that they're not even close to release their tune, they're still trying to crack some of the codes.

The F10 535 DME has proven to be a tough nut to crack.
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Last edited by Mr. Grumpy; 02-05-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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  #45  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:00 PM
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I just emailed Jeremy at OE Tuning. I will keep you posted

FYI: Terry at Burger Motorsports has a new update for the stage 2 piggyback tune. He found out the F30 and F10 n55 share the same CAN info.
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  #46  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:02 PM
wildcardz wildcardz is offline
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Do you think the MY14 LCI will have any impact on this process? I heard that some of the developers didn't want to invest time and energy early on because there wasn't much demand, but F10s and F30s are pretty plentiful now.
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  #47  
Old 02-05-2013, 05:27 PM
RambleJ RambleJ is offline
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Originally Posted by BigDeep1 View Post
I just emailed Jeremy at OE Tuning. I will keep you posted

FYI: Terry at Burger Motorsports has a new update for the stage 2 piggyback tune. He found out the F30 and F10 n55 share the same CAN info.
I have been saying that the f30 and f10 are very very similar.. This will be like the e90 and e60, we will get to piggyback off of the f30 tuning and updates.
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