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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 01-12-2013, 03:14 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Originally Posted by hufington View Post
Why do people not appreciate what they have and belittle great cars so easily? I wonder about the driving skills and expectations of one who calls a 550 the worst car ever. Not credible at all.
If that's the worst car ever, what should people who drive Kias, Hyundais,etc. feel about their cars? I guess this tread was started intentionally to create some drama. We should consider ourselves lucky to have the opportunity to own/lease and drive an F10.
The sad part is that I recently rented a Hyundai Sonata and I found the HANDLING was much better than my F10. No boat like suspension, sharp throttle response and good steering feedback. Yes, everything else loses out to the F10.

But when you call the F10 BMW an ultimate DRIVING machine, it's a slap in the face.

A car is just a car. There's no big deal in criticizing it, especially for people that actually own one. If there is a handful that have the same dislike for the same aspects for the car, maybe it's credible? I do agree that calling it the worst car ever is a little exaggerated though.

Last edited by douggie; 01-12-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2013, 03:19 PM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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Originally Posted by douggie View Post
The sad part is that I recently rented a Hyundai Sonata and I found the HANDLING was much better than my F10. No boat like suspension, sharp throttle response and good steering feedback. Yes, everything else loses out to the F10.
lol what? I've drive Sonatas all the time. Steering is over boosted, light, and has zero feel. Feels like a Camry.
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2013, 03:40 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Most people on this forum feel the same way the OP feels, they just don't like it when someone switches to the other team then calls our baby ugly.

On the other hand, not everyone wants the same thing in a car. Saying the F10 drives like a Lexus is humorous for two reasons. One is that it is only a criticism if you don't like the way a Lexus drives - lots of folks do like the way a Lexus drives. Second reason is that is does not drive like a Lexus. I traded a 2010 GS350 for my BMW. The BMW drives better from an enthusiast viewpoint. I agree the F10 is not the drivers car the previous generation was (sorry, I'll never remember all these codes that ya'll use). But it's still a competent car, and if you live in Houston like I do, there really isn't much need for a sports sedan anyway. I know every curve within 150 miles of Houston. Only about ten of them are within 50 miles of Houston (and no, I'm not telling where they are). Point being that not everyone has the same needs in a car. I like a car that handles well and is composed as a daily driver, but I prefer a compromise that does not beat me up on my daily commutes.
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Last edited by jjsC6; 01-12-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:02 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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lol what? I've drive Sonatas all the time. Steering is over boosted, light, and has zero feel. Feels like a Camry.
Not sure what generation you drove, but the 2012 sonata was decent. The 2012 Camry did not have the boat like suspension as well.
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:23 PM
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TGray5 TGray5 is offline
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Just bought a 550i M sport, but test drove the Audi S4 and A6 before making the purchase and they are very nice driving cars, but even at $1,000 below invoice on the S4, my lease payment was going to be identical to a pretty much fully loaded 550i M sport, except that the Audi required $2,000 drive off and the BMW drive off was zero...so can't imagine how much more the payment would have been on the A7..I'm guessing at least 25% more.
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  #31  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:58 PM
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Let me give you guys a different perspective:

I've driven an A7, and marveled in how well it drove "Like a Go Cart", etc. Motor feels insanely strong, etc. etc. Unfortunately, those (IMO ugly) looks are a blatant turn off and the frontal headroom is minimal so it was immediately out of consideration as my "next car".

I came from an M-B, and although I haven't driven the A6, I know based on researching Tests between the 535i and A6 (and driving the A7), the 535i feels vastly more solid (which is quite a feat because I found the Audi VERY tight, yet this isn't a knock against the Audi as much as it is a plug for the F10 chassis), much quieter, much more luxurious, more coddling and isolated, not to mention much more attractive as the A6 looks a little mundane to me and I've never found the "Audi look" particularly sexy. Now, knowing that would drive many BMW purists straight to the other end of the spectrum, *I* was the target audience for the F10.

Motor Trend said "But whether this $63,245 Alpine White 535i with an M Sport Package stumbled into second place is moot. At the end of an arduous weeklong test, we scored it higher than the Audi, and here's why: better ride (silkiest of the group), quieter interior (quietest of the group), smoother engine (smoothest of the group), engaging steering, more comfortable and supportive seats, and an overwhelming sense of solidity. Whereas the A6 tried really, really hard to feel like a $60,000 automobile, the BMW didn't even break a sweat.
Much of the 5's air of expensiveness comes from its 7 Series' underpinnings, which, alas, make the 535i feel like its bigger and heavier sibling. It is no longer an upsized 3, but rather a downsized 7. While we prefer the former, there is a plus side to the latter. Says Evans: "The embodiment of what I think of when I think German. Very solid, substantial. Buttoned-down and refined, no-nonsense." From Lieberman: "All that solidity equates to one hell of a nice, smooth ride. 80 mph feels more like 40 mph, and 90 mph feels like a totally responsible, safe cruising speed."
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2HoQgycvT


I wanted something more lively than my E-Class, yet I didn't want to sacrifice ONE BIT in luxury/refinement. The 5er answered my calls in that respect. Not only does it top even the E-Class in smoothness, isolation, comfort and pure refinement, but for someone like me, it feels downright "racy", and that's not an exaggeration (I came from a 2011 E350).

I've been an M-B purist for enough time in my pretty young life to still think a LUXURY SEDAN first and foremost should be non-sacrificing in LUXURY, comfort and refinement. However, lately I wanted something more lively and sporty. The A6 is too far on the other end of the spectrum, I find some interior materials/design are too basic and/or "cheap-ish" and aren't on par or as "coddling" as the F10's (no stitching in key areas where the BMW and M-B do have is a big turnoff), and I although having not driven it, was turned off by constant Reviewer tests saying that it's "louder in cabin", "not as solid feeling", "more tinny/flimsy", than the 5er, which made it a no go considering I already preferred the F10 styling both inside and out by a good margin, and wanted to get back to my "roots" with the BMW brand and 5-Series.

Put it this way, I didn't want the E60 for the same reasons I didn't consider the A6, as there were other options in the market I found more to my liking from what I want out of a 4-Door Luxury Car, not to mention more attractive alternatives. However, this time around I wanted more of a balance, and IMO what the F10 brings to the table is a drastic attempt by BMW to do "everything all at once". Some people will hate that because they prefer an extreme, but to someone like me, it makes this car literally the best thing on 4-wheels I could have asked for. I ADORED my W212 E-Class, and I still love that body-style (pre-facelift), but the F10 did what I think BMW intended it to do: Made ME go "WOW".

Carry on.
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Last edited by K-A; 01-12-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggie View Post
The sad part is that I recently rented a Hyundai Sonata and I found the HANDLING was much better than my F10. No boat like suspension, sharp throttle response and good steering feedback. Yes, everything else loses out to the F10.

But when you call the F10 BMW an ultimate DRIVING machine, it's a slap in the face.

A car is just a car. There's no big deal in criticizing it, especially for people that actually own one. If there is a handful that have the same dislike for the same aspects for the car, maybe it's credible? I do agree that calling it the worst car ever is a little exaggerated though.
http://gifb.in/uKsV
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:07 PM
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love the gif. priceless
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  #34  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:14 PM
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K-A K-A is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggie View Post
The sad part is that I recently rented a Hyundai Sonata and I found the HANDLING was much better than my F10. No boat like suspension, sharp throttle response and good steering feedback.
I have a good response for this, hold on, but it's gonna be long and well though out so you better have your A-Game on when you have to come back to refute it.

... Wait...

..... Wait for it.....

It's coming.................

......


........LOL.........
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  #35  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:19 PM
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Here's my point of view: I had a 2011 535, Sport, and pretty much fully loaded. I loved how the car looked, I bought it before doing a test drive because I bought one of the first ones ever produced. Custom ordered. And as much as I wanted to love the car, I didn't. There were many things that I didn't like, for example, as Needsdecaf said, it was always wallowing all over the road, had a tendency to veer to the right and it felt floaty. I was very disappointed. On top of that, the bluetooth was horrible (I spend nearly 2 hours on the car a day, most of the time on conference calls from and to work), so that was a BIG issue.

After struggling with it for a year, I was able to trade it in for another custom ordered 2012, this time M-Sport (with Dynamic Dampers), and also fully loaded with new goodies, like Combox (waaaay better bluetooth) and heads-up-display.

There is simply no comparison. I LOVE how this one drives. The power delivery is smooth and plentiful. The suspension does what you want it to do (Comfort+, Comfort, Sport, Sport+), drives straight like an arrow, and the sound quality of bluetooth is outstanding. Nobody knows I'm calling from my car.

I've had many, many brand new cars before (over 30 of them) including other BMW's, M-Benz, Porsche, Audi, Cadillac, Ford, Land Rover, Saab, etc. Lots of variety along the way. And of all of them, this is the car I've enjoyed the most bar none. I absolutely love this car, from the way it looks, the way it drives, the luxury inside, etc.

After 14 months and over 17,000 miles, I'm still in love with this car.

And by the way, when I was mad at my 2011, I test drove the A6 and A7, and as much as I wanted to "punish" BMW by purchasing something else, they didn't feel as luxurious or refined as the F10. Here's one little thing to compare: Look at the cheap hard plastic on the center console between the front seats. That would look and feel cheap on a Hyundai. Enough said.
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  #36  
Old 01-12-2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_c View Post
Here's my point of view: I had a 2011 535, Sport, and pretty much fully loaded. I loved how the car looked, I bought it before doing a test drive because I bought one of the first ones ever produced. Custom ordered. And as much as I wanted to love the car, I didn't. There were many things that I didn't like, for example, as Needsdecaf said, it was always wallowing all over the road, had a tendency to veer to the right and it felt floaty. I was very disappointed. On top of that, the bluetooth was horrible (I spend nearly 2 hours on the car a day, most of the time on conference calls from and to work), so that was a BIG issue.

After struggling with it for a year, I was able to trade it in for another custom ordered 2012, this time M-Sport (with Dynamic Dampers), and also fully loaded with new goodies, like Combox (waaaay better bluetooth) and heads-up-display.

There is simply no comparison. I LOVE how this one drives. The power delivery is smooth and plentiful. The suspension does what you want it to do (Comfort+, Comfort, Sport, Sport+), drives straight like an arrow, and the sound quality of bluetooth is outstanding. Nobody knows I'm calling from my car.

I've had many, many brand new cars before (over 30 of them) including other BMW's, M-Benz, Porsche, Audi, Cadillac, Ford, Land Rover, Saab, etc. Lots of variety along the way. And of all of them, this is the car I've enjoyed the most bar none. I absolutely love this car, from the way it looks, the way it drives, the luxury inside, etc.

After 14 months and over 17,000 miles, I'm still in love with this car.

And by the way, when I was mad at my 2011, I test drove the A6 and A7, and as much as I wanted to "punish" BMW by purchasing something else, they didn't feel as luxurious or refined as the F10. Here's one little thing to compare: Look at the cheap hard plastic on the center console between the front seats. That would look and feel cheap on a Hyundai. Enough said.
Where BMW goofed is by seemingly delivering atrociously faulty initial-year F10's. Some of the issues with 2011's I'm reading about are horrifying and I'm saddened for the drivers of them.

I was so weary of the initial issues I didn't even want to consider an F10 until not 1 but 2 years were under its belt, i.e 2013's.

I've driven 2011, 2012, and 2013 M Sport F10 535i's. Now, granted these weren't back to back.

Upon learning that my 2013 M Sport is the first F10 year/combo to apparently have the new "all steel (no tech) M Sport Suspension" it made me think that perhaps my initial notion of "this feels a lot tighter and more connected than the previous F10's I've driven" wasn't all in my head I'd love to know just what BMW intended to do differently with this suspension, but to me so far it seems like "make it sportier/tighter" was it.
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  #37  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:58 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Is this a fair comparison? The A7 should be compared to the 6 Gran Coupe - which just based on looks (and price) blows away the A7. I think Audi makes great cars, but not to the luxury level that BMW makes their cars. The interiors always seem to be plain me. Like the toyota camry of interiors. Upscale but plain.

ON a separate - Is there an uglier car in production than the A7? Its like they had extra materials and just kept adding to the back end. Just My opinion.
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  #38  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:00 PM
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TGray5 TGray5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Is this a fair comparison? The A7 should be compared to the 6 Gran Coupe - which just based on looks (and price) blows away the A7. I think Audi makes great cars, but not to the luxury level that BMW makes their cars. The interiors always seem to be plain me. Like the toyota camry of interiors. Upscale but plain.

ON a separate - Is there an uglier car in production than the A7? Its like they had extra materials and just kept adding to the back end. Just My opinion.
agree on the tail...that thing is ugly. Front is beautiful though.
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  #39  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:02 PM
kerri13 kerri13 is offline
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Help

i have a 95 bmw 525i, it will not turn ober and changed the battery everything lights up then bi=ut will not hold charge, someone told me its y starter relay, where are the fuses located? is it under the hiid next to the fuses for the lights and etc?
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  #40  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:20 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Originally Posted by TGray5 View Post
agree on the tail...that thing is ugly. Front is beautiful though.
Mrs D calls it a droopy butt car, which means it falls into the unacceptable class.
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  #41  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:02 AM
solstice solstice is offline
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The A7 is different and furthermore it's a hatchback. This is a turn off for many. I think it's rather stylish. I bet it's inspired by a car from another VAG brand. You who don't like the sloping back do you also find this one fugly?

http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/phot...400_photo.aspx

I wouldn't mind one but a nice one sell for about a million at actions.

Last edited by solstice; 01-13-2013 at 12:06 AM.
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  #42  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:36 AM
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I bet it's much more likely they needed something to fill in the gap between the existing corporate siblings: Passat CC and the Panny.



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  #43  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:54 AM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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Wow, a lot of back and forth between people with strong opinions.

My original intent was not to be provoking but just to state my observation and comparison of two brands of vehicles.

Clearly, I overstepped my opinion about the F10 being the worst car ever. Clearly that is not true, but I am a very big fan of BMW's especially my last 5er (the E60) and therefore the bold statement which I humbly retract.

As I stated before I find this board and those on it to be above the norm and really appreciate the advice i received. I will stand on my belief that the current F10 is not a drivers car.

I am not married to the A7 either. It is a wonderful car. To say I lose credibility that I did not pan the seats is stupid. Nobody ever has said that the A7 seats are good, infact its one of the biggest complaints on the audi forums. I do not like them. But, as a rational person I also do not cum over the F10 seats knowing how good the E60 were before them.

As much as it hurts me and others, BMW really missed the mark on the new F10 for those that love the BMW driving feel, specifically those that are the ones that would spend time on these forums! However, obviously they have a hit, sales are great.

And for those that think the A7 is ugly, good for you. You have your opinion. It is not for everyone. Not that it matters but interestingly there is not a day, and I mean it, that I don't get a thumbs up from passing drivers or a nice car remark from people when my car is parked. I have never had that before, nor do I seek it, nor does it matter to me, just a fact.

My post was not to upset, pick fights, or be an A.. I can see how my comment about best car ever was inappropriate.

I really look forward to being back in a BMW (with side bolsters!).

Last edited by mikeriley; 01-13-2013 at 12:57 AM.
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  #44  
Old 01-13-2013, 12:55 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex_c View Post
Here's my point of view: I had a 2011 535, Sport, and pretty much fully loaded. I loved how the car looked, I bought it before doing a test drive because I bought one of the first ones ever produced. Custom ordered. And as much as I wanted to love the car, I didn't. There were many things that I didn't like, for example, as Needsdecaf said, it was always wallowing all over the road, had a tendency to veer to the right and it felt floaty. I was very disappointed. On top of that, the bluetooth was horrible (I spend nearly 2 hours on the car a day, most of the time on conference calls from and to work), so that was a BIG issue.

After struggling with it for a year, I was able to trade it in for another custom ordered 2012, this time M-Sport (with Dynamic Dampers), and also fully loaded with new goodies, like Combox (waaaay better bluetooth) and heads-up-display.

There is simply no comparison. I LOVE how this one drives. The power delivery is smooth and plentiful. The suspension does what you want it to do (Comfort+, Comfort, Sport, Sport+), drives straight like an arrow, and the sound quality of bluetooth is outstanding. Nobody knows I'm calling from my car.

I've had many, many brand new cars before (over 30 of them) including other BMW's, M-Benz, Porsche, Audi, Cadillac, Ford, Land Rover, Saab, etc. Lots of variety along the way. And of all of them, this is the car I've enjoyed the most bar none. I absolutely love this car, from the way it looks, the way it drives, the luxury inside, etc.

After 14 months and over 17,000 miles, I'm still in love with this car.

And by the way, when I was mad at my 2011, I test drove the A6 and A7, and as much as I wanted to "punish" BMW by purchasing something else, they didn't feel as luxurious or refined as the F10. Here's one little thing to compare: Look at the cheap hard plastic on the center console between the front seats. That would look and feel cheap on a Hyundai. Enough said.
Thanks for the useful information. So it seems that if you had one without dynamic dampers, and especially the 2011s, you'll feel the floaty suspension.
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  #45  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Is this a fair comparison? The A7 should be compared to the 6 Gran Coupe - which just based on looks (and price) blows away the A7. I think Audi makes great cars, but not to the luxury level that BMW makes their cars. The interiors always seem to be plain me. Like the toyota camry of interiors. Upscale but plain.

You must have not seen the interior of the Audi A8. Beats anything BMW has ever put out.

Quote:
ON a separate - Is there an uglier car in production than the A7? Its like they had extra materials and just kept adding to the back end. Just My opinion.
Why are BMW fans so concentrated on the A7, but ignore BMW's own failures? 5GT? 3GT? new 1 series? all hideous
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  #46  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:08 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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how about we compare Yale to Harvard, see how that conversation goes
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:50 AM
Naijadoc Naijadoc is offline
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Originally Posted by hufington View Post
why do people not appreciate what they have and belittle great cars so easily? I wonder about the driving skills and expectations of one who calls a 550 the worst car ever. Not credible at all.
If that's the worst car ever, what should people who drive kias, hyundais,etc. Feel about their cars? I guess this tread was started intentionally to create some drama. We should consider ourselves lucky to have the opportunity to own/lease and drive an f10.
+1
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  #48  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:54 AM
Sophisto Sophisto is offline
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You must have not seen the interior of the Audi A8. Beats anything BMW has ever put out.



Why are BMW fans so concentrated on the A7, but ignore BMW's own failures? 5GT? 3GT? new 1 series? all hideous
Yes that is a couple of failing BMW cars, do not forget the X6, extremely hideous as well.
The A7 should be compaired to the 6 series, not the 5, so why we are discussing that car all the time beats me. Someone choosing the looks of the A7 over a 6 series, well,
I am so sorry for you for not being able to drive a 535D Touring....

Last edited by Sophisto; 01-13-2013 at 04:55 AM.
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2013, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hufington View Post
If that's the worst car ever, what should people who drive Kias, Hyundais,etc. feel about their cars? I guess this tread was started intentionally to create some drama. We should consider ourselves lucky to have the opportunity to own/lease and drive an F10.
You should go check out the Kia, Hyundai, Honda, etc forums online. Every time I lurk on one, I can feel the brain cells inside me dying.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:02 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophisto View Post
Yes that is a couple of failing BMW cars, do not forget the X6, extremely hideous as well.
Yup, X6 also. upcoming X4 too

Quote:
The A7 should be compaired to the 6 series, not the 5, so why we are discussing that car all the time beats me. Someone choosing the looks of the A7 over a 6 series, well,
6GC is the best looking BMW in a long time. Proportions are spot on.

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I am so sorry for you for not being able to drive a 535D Touring....
I'm still waiting
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