Here's another ATS vs 3 Series Comparison

Originally Posted by dtc100

Maybe GM's way to attract a few remaining manual drivers by giving them a big price break. If auto is a must, you do have to pay $44k MSRP to get LSD.

Then honestly, the appealing one to me is the base car for $35k. I think it gets less appealing/competitive as the price begins to line up with the F30.

If they could have given me a 6mt 2.0T with an LSD for about $299 a month, I may be on another forum. I wound up not even leasing as my M-Sport would have been like $500 a month.

Then either you had some horrible car made during octoberfest and then hidden in the lot with the normal cars, or I'm sorry to say this: you did a horrible job maintaining it.

I'm by no means an expert but around 20 people at work here have e90s (and the touring version is it e91?) all from 2007 and 2008 and none of them had any of the complaints/problems you describe.

Originally Posted by ilhan1103

Then either you had some horrible car made during octoberfest and then hidden in the lot with the normal cars, or I'm sorry to say this: you did a horrible job maintaining it.

I'm by no means an expert but around 20 people at work here have e90s (and the touring version is it e91?) all from 2007 and 2008 and none of them had any of the complaints/problems you describe.

Funny you mentioned. I feel partially responsible for the leather condition of the driver's seat. Most of the time I drive in jeans and rarely clean it. However the issues with the steering wheel, window control trim and exterior window trim (glossy sport package trim) wearing off are very common. You can do a quick search on any E90 forum and find out for yourself. These are not major issues but still unacceptable IMO. BTW my car is 2009 MY LCI with early 2009 built.

Originally Posted by Reedo302

My 1999 M Coupe interior was in better shape in 2010 than the interior of my 2003 Chevy Suburban was in 2005.

Gotta agree here. My 2005 545 interior looks pretty much new except for a few high-touch spots getting a little shiny. My 2004 Explorer looks like an old car inside, even though it's in good condition.

I realize 1978 was a lifetime ago...but my first car was a '78 Chevy Monte Carlo, which I got in 1986, making it 8 years old. My 545 has an in-service date in 2004, making it eight years old also. Setting aside mechanical reliability, the appearance of age between the two cars is, frankly, dramatic. The Monte's headliner had fallen out, the material on the seats was disintegrating, and the paint was completely oxidized. I know that GM is doing a better job now, but until these cars turn eight or ten years old I'm not sure how much better and my personal experience is what it is.

Originally Posted by ilhan1103

Then either you had some horrible car made during octoberfest and then hidden in the lot with the normal cars, or I'm sorry to say this: you did a horrible job maintaining it.

Yeah, those results are not typical at all. Sounds like this guy lives at the beach and leaves his windows down all night. Or something.

Originally Posted by WJGreer

Gotta agree here. My 2005 545 interior looks pretty much new except for a few high-touch spots getting a little shiny. My 2004 Explorer looks like an old car inside, even though it's in good condition.

I realize 1978 was a lifetime ago...but my first car was a '78 Chevy Monte Carlo, which I got in 1986, making it 8 years old. My 545 has an in-service date in 2004, making it eight years old also. Setting aside mechanical reliability, the appearance of age between the two cars is, frankly, dramatic. The Monte's headliner had fallen out, the material on the seats was disintegrating, and the paint was completely oxidized. I know that GM is doing a better job now, but until these cars turn eight or ten years old I'm not sure how much better and my personal experience is what it is.

Yeah, those results are not typical at all. Sounds like this guy lives at the beach and leaves his windows down all night. Or something.

Quick search to prove how wrong you are:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=623918

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=432757

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=534401

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=366248

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=563875



I am not even going to post complaints from other forums but there are plenty more.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

Quick search to prove how wrong you are:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=623918

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=432757

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=534401

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=366248

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=563875



I am not even going to post complaints from other forums but there are plenty more.

No sale. Internet forums are 95% people bitching about bad experiences they've had. The content of the posts not at all represents the broad ownership experience.

Originally Posted by WJGreer

No sale. Internet forums are 95% people bitching about bad experiences they've had. The content of the posts not at all represents the broad ownership experience.

Yeah they all made it up.

Recently Cadillac has been rated much higher than BMW in JD Power's new car satisfaction survey. But the reality is, we don't drive theses cars for reliability and durability reasons. Most of them are short term leases. Fun driving is what they are about.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

Yeah they all made it up.

I'm sure they didn't make it up. My point is that if a car's satisfaction rating were 99.95%, the remaining .05% would be hugely overrepresented on an internet forum.

Originally Posted by Reedo302

I have looked at the ATS, and I am fine with the design. I don't find it to be some amazingly beautiful car, but it's not hideous either. The issue I have with the modern Cadillacs is that it seems like they took pictures of an F117 stealth fighter bomber and said "Hey, let's make it look like that!". They basically took a giant clay mould and chopped a bunch of edges and off-angle lines into it, then put it into production. I look at the ATS, as well as the CTS and STS and wonder if the purpose is to defeat surface to air missiles.

Excellent observation.

I believe that, with a radar absorbing clear-coat, this Scourge of Munich will present a radar profile too small to detect.

i thought they treid to make it look ugly and boring, for old people.

Originally Posted by chris328

i thought they treid to make it look ugly and boring, for old people.

And they did an excellent job at that

Originally Posted by chris328

i thought they treid to make it look ugly and boring, for old people.

As opposed to BMWs which are styled to be staid and safe for the older end of middle-aged people.

Pick your poison.

I sat down in a 370Z the other day. Nice car, really, and superbly priced for the level of performance you get. But, seriously, the interior of that car looked like it was aimed at a 21 year old. It looked like a transformer that hadn't transformed yet.

So, maybe I'm the staid, middle-aged guy BMW is aiming at. I like what they do better.

I went to the Hampton Roads International Auto Show today and decided to check out the ATS. It wasn't a real looker. I think they had the base model on the floor for display. The thing is there were so many elderly people surrounding the car that I could barely get a chance to sit in the thing. Cadillac has a reputation that will take decades to turn around. You can even see a walker the lady was using to get around in the photo. This is a sporty Cadillac, not sure if it would be driven that way.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

I went to the Hampton Roads International Auto Show today and decided to check out the ATS. It wasn't a real looker. I think they had the base model on the floor for display. The thing is there were so many elderly people surrounding the car that I could barely get a chance to sit in the thing. Cadillac has a reputation that will take decades to turn around. You can even see a walker the lady was using to get around in the photo. This is a sporty Cadillac, not sure if it would be driven that way.

Love it.

"Look Laverne, it's an inexpensive Cadillac! I think on our fixed income we can afford the $299 a month. I'm getting that HurryCane I saw on TV. It folds down so it'll fit in the trunk. Let's go to the all-you-can-eat early bird at Mabel's, soak our dentures, and talk it over."

BJ

'Boring' isn't the adjective I would use.

Originally Posted by Saintor

'Boring' isn't the adjective I would use.

BJ was right about many seniors looking at the ATSs at auto shows. However, seniors are the most affluent demographics in the US now, especially those looking at luxury brands.

I have said this many times, for ATS to change Caddy's image, they need to have competitive leases. Those who just enter job market often cannot afford a 3 series, and since the 3 series can sell for more because there are plenty of established buyers out there who are willing to pay for it, it will be out of reach for many younger drivers.

Here Caddy has an opening, unintended maybe, but whether they can see it or not is questionable.

BTW, I would not call ATS boring, it stands out quite apart from many other brands. But it still lacks options. In this super competitive segment, they need to learn from the boss, provide more trims and special order items, such as performance parts. They are not nearly as resourceful as BMW in this regard.

Originally Posted by dtc100

BTW, I would not call ATS boring, it stands out quite apart from many other brands. But it still lacks options. In this super competitive segment, they need to learn from the boss, provide more trims and special order items, such as performance parts. They are not nearly as resourceful as BMW in this regard.

I can agree to some extent. Maybe the car isn't boring, but what makes it so attractive to the senior crowd? Is it the crest, or are they actually drawn to the design? I'm not sure they see the car, sit there and say to themselves "boy I'm sure this thing handles like it's on rails".

If they were to test drive the car and feel how stiff the setup is, would they walk away? I walked up to the car with an open mind, and my wife (who insists on never driving a Cadillac) thought it looked okay. It doesn't stand out from the rest, and that may be what it needs. The XTS right next to it had the average crowd gathered around it.

I just thought it was weird to see the ATS surrounded by that crowd, of course all the kids surrounding the CTS-V's right next to it wasn't helping either. I just don't think it's the looks that will attract the target segment, it's the way it drives. But in order to get them inside the car it has to have the looks.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

I can agree to some extent. Maybe the car isn't boring, but what makes it so attractive to the senior crowd? Is it the crest, or are they actually drawn to the design? I'm not sure they see the car, sit there and say to themselves "boy I'm sure this thing handles like it's on rails".

I will say the 321HP 3.6 engine that doesn't sound like a Civic. It makes all the difference how the car feels. I'll venture to say that I would take an ATS 3.6 over a 328i (but not the 335i) for slighly less.

Originally Posted by boramkiv

If they were to test drive the car and feel how stiff the setup is, would they walk away?

My bet is once they sat in it, they walked away.

Originally Posted by dtc100

My bet is once they sat in it, they walked away.

As promised DTC, the Q50 is out

Originally Posted by boramkiv

I went to the Hampton Roads International Auto Show today and decided to check out the ATS. It wasn't a real looker. I think they had the base model on the floor for display. The thing is there were so many elderly people surrounding the car that I could barely get a chance to sit in the thing. Cadillac has a reputation that will take decades to turn around. You can even see a walker the lady was using to get around in the photo. This is a sporty Cadillac, not sure if it would be driven that way.

OK, I just KNOW that you put that wheeled walker there and stuffed your grandma into the car, I just KNOW it, deny it if you will.....

Originally Posted by Kamdog

OK, I just KNOW that you put that wheeled walker there and stuffed your grandma into the car, I just KNOW it, deny it if you will.....

Originally Posted by boramkiv

I went to the Hampton Roads International Auto Show today and decided to check out the ATS. It wasn't a real looker. I think they had the base model on the floor for display. The thing is there were so many elderly people surrounding the car that I could barely get a chance to sit in the thing. Cadillac has a reputation that will take decades to turn around. You can even see a walker the lady was using to get around in the photo. This is a sporty Cadillac, not sure if it would be driven that way.

How may 3 series are driven anything other than sedately? Most are bought for the badge and the owners have moved up from Camry's and Accord's. Yes Cadillac has an image problem but who cares as long as the car drives well? BMW's image to many is pretty snobbish.