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  #26  
Old 07-04-2012, 05:20 AM
rickmckee730d rickmckee730d is offline
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Great find , maybe my electronics shop can follow the instructions, i certainly can't

Last edited by rickmckee730d; 07-04-2012 at 05:22 AM. Reason: wrong post
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  #27  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:49 PM
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bump
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2012, 03:31 AM
AceFX AceFX is offline
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Top effort PAPER. Being an IT Engineer myself this all makes good sense. Great find by you man.....
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  #29  
Old 08-07-2012, 06:13 PM
olegmedinskiy olegmedinskiy is offline
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Hay cool stuff I found a lot about thet on Russian forums I'm fixing my l7 soon ordered all the stuff I need

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  #30  
Old 09-02-2012, 10:05 PM
DriftGirl DriftGirl is offline
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Found a guy today that got me the chips needed....my L7 (Subs) seems to work in the mornings, like the board needs to be re-flowed...i dunno

They were free, so I may give this "fix" a try...Just wish there were clear pix of the solder points.

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  #31  
Old 09-19-2012, 05:53 PM
TylerZ06 TylerZ06 is offline
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how can I tell if the amp is bad or not? Some of the speakers crackel and some dont.. It seems to cut out at times and I thought the speakers where blown but now I just dont know.. I dont want to go buy replacement speakers since people say the stocks are pretty good. I also dont get much if any bass from the subs under the rear seats. I was thinking about replacing them with some rockford shallow 8's. Input is appreciated!!!
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  #32  
Old 11-11-2012, 08:06 AM
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Hey paper. That was a great fine on the logic seven repair. I tried to go on the Russian link that you included in the forum but I was in able to translate . However the repair was a success. I'm looking to repair my ask unit. Any pics , suggestion or links you can fwd me to out me in the right direction. Preferably type of chip and chip pin location ? Thanks in advance for your assistance ...
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by second 7 View Post
Hey paper. That was a great fine on the logic seven repair. I tried to go on the Russian link that you included in the forum but I was in able to translate . However the repair was a success. I'm looking to repair my ask unit. Any pics , suggestion or links you can fwd me to out me in the right direction. Preferably type of chip and chip pin location ? Thanks in advance for your assistance ...
this is the pic of the ASK Unit chips that need to be replaced & the chip #
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  #34  
Old 11-29-2012, 04:56 AM
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Thanks you very much. Very appreciative.... For everything .

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  #35  
Old 01-06-2013, 02:18 PM
BimmerBeast01 BimmerBeast01 is offline
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Does anyone know a good place in NYC that does repairs to the logic 7 amp?
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:51 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Nice information!

My AMP finally blew tonight.... Well at least I think it has, my idrive has been playing up intermittently every now and then for a month or so.

Tonight I got in the car and there is music playing but only for a second, then stops for a second then plays for a second etc... at very low volume and crackly. music only come out the front door speakers.

The idrive keeps reverting back to the radio menu, the TV functions dont work it wont select a channel, I can select ipod tracks with a few attempts but they wont play unless you keep trying! and the ASK wont play CD's! Also the MMI wont shut off after I have removed they key!

INPA cannot communicate with the AMP so im assuming thats the issue? It sounds more serious than just the capacitors or amplifier IC's going down and more like the actual MOST interface itself is rebooting. Or could the AMP be rebooting as one of the caps are short and its PSU is overloading and trying to restart?

Will pull it out and loop the MOST bus and see if it is indeed the problem!

Stuart
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  #37  
Old 01-09-2013, 11:11 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Pulled the AMP last night, looped the fibre bus and idrive is now working correctly and I have sound again! (Sounds completely crap as expected!)

Anyway took the amp apart to see if I could identify anything obvious.



Caps don't look suspect visually, which I kind of expected as it was working perfectly up to the point when it suddenly failed.

I will get the caps on the ESR tester at work to confirm if they are good or not.

Interestingly the amp has already been replaced at least once, this one was made in Q1 of 2006.

Upon closer inspection the amplifier PCB shows evidence of water damage, this has caused corrosion between the pins of the IDC board connector.





The symptoms I am having is resetting of the MOST bus every second or so, with audio only coming out of the speakers driven by the ASK unit (front door mids and tweeters, and the rear mids) also after removing the key from the ignition the MMI will stay powered and not shut down.

The amp is constantly interrupting the MOST bus as if the MOST controller is continually resetting. This leads me to believe the amplifier part is ok and it's a control issue, which almost certainly means a new amp!

I have been inspecting the controller PCB and I have noticed a Maxim watchdog/brown-out supervisor IC, I'm wondering if this is what's resetting the controller every second because of a low supply voltage condition possibly caused by the corrosion on the board connector?

I will power it up on the bench and get a scope on it see what's going on tomorrow, clean up the corrosion and hope it sorts it out!

I will update on progress for those of you interested, may be useful for some of you.

Stuart
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  #38  
Old 01-11-2013, 04:03 PM
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I hope by cleaning the corrosion your Amp
Starts functioning properly .
Good luck

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  #39  
Old 01-12-2013, 03:54 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Thanks PAPER,

I have cleaned the board up but no luck as yet. One of the processors is not kicking the watchdog so it keeps resetting.

The reason for this is either a duff processor or a fault elsewhere on the board. There is a MOSFET on the amplifier card that's getting very hot, (in my first pic of the PCB its the one on the lower left in the corner) it looks like its controlled by the processor card and is used to power the amplifier up once the processor card has been woken up by the MOST bus.

I'm guessing there is a fault elsewhere with either of the amplifier ICs that's drawing excessive current. Examination with a thermal camera has yet to determine anything.

Pretty gutted really, seems I've been really unlucky and got a much more serious problem. It won't be as simple as replacing caps and amplifiers as I had hoped!

Stuart

Last edited by stuartjohn24; 01-12-2013 at 03:57 AM.
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  #40  
Old 01-13-2013, 04:25 PM
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Sorry to hear cleaning didn't solve your problem .
Keep us posted on your progress

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  #41  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:11 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Right then....

Been messing around with this at lunchtime today, removed all inductors and capacitors from the amplifier card to eliminate anything there.

I fired the amp up and still a fair bit of current being drawn, reset line on processor card still being pulled low by the watchdog IC every 1.2 seconds.



Decided to have a poke around the board with the scope, noticed the processors were doing "something" so tried the thermal camera on the processor card.



Noticed the EEPROM cooking itself! Checked the 5V rail and found it to be over 9V!

Anyway long story short... The component getting hot on the amplifier card in the corner was the MOSFET for the 5V power supply. When I originally started testing the card the output voltage from the MOSFET circuit was 12V, I didn't think this was abnormal. Little did I know it should have been 5V!

Luckily the three processors and RAM all run on 3.3V and have not been over voltaged.

I therefore tried running the processor card from a separate 5V bench supply.

This provided some hopeful results, the processor is now kicking the watchdog IC and it's no longer resetting every second or so.

I will investigate whats going on with the 5V supply and take it from there.

There is a slim chance it's repairable if the EEPROMS are not damaged. (I don't have the code, and I can't imagine it's easy to get hold of!)

Stuart

Last edited by stuartjohn24; 01-14-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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  #42  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartjohn24 View Post
Right then....

Been messing around with this at lunchtime today, removed all inductors and capacitors from the amplifier card to eliminate anything there.

I fired the amp up and still a fair bit of current being drawn, reset line on processor card still being pulled low by the watchdog IC every 1.2 seconds.



Decided to have a poke around the board with the scope, noticed the processors were doing "something" so tried the thermal camera on the processor card.



Noticed the EEPROM cooking itself! Checked the 5V rail and found it to be over 9V!

Anyway long story short... The component getting hot on the amplifier card in the corner was the MOSFET for the 5V power supply. When I originally started testing the card the output voltage from the MOSFET circuit was 12V, I didn't think this was abnormal. Little did I know it should have been 5V!

Luckily the three processors and RAM all run on 3.3V and have not been over voltaged.

I therefore tried running the processor card from a separate 5V bench supply.

This provided some hopeful results, the processor is now kicking the watchdog IC and it's no longer resetting every second or so.

I will investigate whats going on with the 5V supply and take it from there.

There is a slim chance it's repairable if the EEPROMS are not damaged. (I don't have the code, and I can't imagine it's easy to get hold of!)

Stuart

VERY NICE !!! Glad you have a clue of what it might be . I hope it all turns out
good & repairable for you . Must be Nice to have all those tools at work
As I recall you made yourself a bench tester for the MMI also
( that's a great helpful tool you made , I need to try & find some time to make
a bench tester or even buy 1 if I can find 1 for sale . Some 1 was selling 1 they
made last year but I contacted him to late
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  #43  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:47 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Thanks PAPER,

Yeah it has its benefits, most of this car is electronics so im comfortable with that!

Im busy reverse engineering the entire amplifier card, I'm tempted to re-lay the PCB and fit the replacement TDA8563 and TDA1562 amplifiers properly, been playing around quickly and it looks pretty straightforward. Could even design in some proper heat sinking and cooling or fit some higher powered amps for the subs!



Will think about doing that if I can fix my amp! one step at a time! Hopefully the EEPROMS aren't completely fried! I may be begging for someone to read the code from the IC's for me!

Anyway...

The test box thing is great, been running the webasto park heater with it in the garage, works well.

Thats interesting, be nice to know what that one was like compared to mine, Ideally it would be best to fit a used CAS if I can find one cheap enough! so I can start coding modules too.

Stuart
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  #44  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:41 PM
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The unit was small & had a few options .
Oh & he had a CAS hooked up to it . Not
Sure what else as everything was in a housing ,
But he did say it was used to code modules .
As I recall 1 pic had a cluster hooked up &
Another had an MMI

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  #45  
Old 01-19-2013, 05:21 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Hi Paper,

Yeah I will try and get hold of an old CAS or working LM, I guess he's using the CAS to 'wake' modules. I just send the terminal status CAN message using an arduino and CAN shield.

Anyway, I am still working on this! I have been busy reverse engineering the amplifier card to try and work out what has failed.

Here is the schematic I have drawn of the power supply and control part of the amplifier card:



It roughly works like this:

Constant battery voltage regardless of ignition status is present at T1, Q1 and pin 2 of the ribbon cable connector.

When the optical bus is woken, the previous module transmits light to the amplifier, the circuit on the processor card 'wakes' the amplifier (more on that later) by pulling pin 15 of the ribbon cable connector to ground/0V.

When this happens T5 switches battery voltage through two resistors (R14 & R17) and to the zener diode D3 which regulates the voltage to 10V. This now switches on Q1 the main power MOSFET.

Q1 now switches on and the output quickly tries to reach the battery voltage, however D2 starts conducting at around 5V, this switches on T6 which in turn tries to switch off Q1, this has now formed a regulator. This is what generates the 5V for the processor card.

T6 was shorted so the regulator circuit didn't work. I have replaced T6 and I now have 5.1V!

More to come...
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  #46  
Old 01-19-2013, 06:06 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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T1, T2, T3 and T8 appear to form part of a protection circuit, I'm sot sure exactly, I haven't been clever enough to work it out yet, analogue electronics is not my expertise!

The circuit is connected to the MOSFET's on the output stage by the main connector.

The amplifier card receives pre-amplified analog audio from the processor card via the ribbon cable.

I have powered the amplifier card up without the processor card and it fires up OK when pin 15 is pulled low, all looking good.

However connecting the processor card it seems to be powered up all the time! Measuring pin 15 and its pulled low all the time.

Inspecting the processor card pin 15 is pulled low by the circuit highlighted and labeled '7' in the image below:



Circuit - Description
1 - 4 channel digital to analogue audio converter, this surprisingly only appears to be controlling/decoding the center speaker! audio wise anyway.
2 - 4 channel digital to analogue audio converter, also appears to be controlling the fibre interface.
3+4 - EEPROM
5+6 - Static RAM
7 - 'Wake Up' circuit and schmitt trigger inverter, possibly to filter MOST data and send to processor (2)
8 - DSP (Digital signal processor) this performs the decoding of the digital audio data to determine which channel the sound comes from.
9 - System clock circuit, this generates the timing for all three processors.
10 - This is a DC-DC voltage converter, it supplies + and - supplies to the pre-amplifiers 12 and 13.
11 - Watchdog and brown-out supervisor IC, this is the IC resetting the processors every 1.2 seconds.
12 - Audio pre-amplifier, IC on the right is the pre-amp for the subwoofers, the IC on the left is the pre-amp for the rear door speakers.
13 - Audio pre amplifier for the center speaker.
14 - I2C serial EEPROM, My guess is this stores the current equaliser settings that you set using the idrive.

The IC next to 14, is an I2C temperature sensor, its output drives the fan circuit on the amplifier card. The fan circuit is a mess, one forum stated that the fan speed increases with volume, I cant see that being the case, the advised fix if this is faulty tells you to fit entirely the wrong type/gender transistor!

Anyway...

The circuit was covered in a green sticky glue, I removed that and immediately smelled something burned!



I found the transistor labeled '1BW' looking a bit crispy, this is the transistor that pulls pin 15 to ground to switch the amplifier on when it receives the optical data.

The transistor was short causing the amplifier to be powered all the time, this may be why the idrive wouldn't shut down when the key was removed and kept the car awake!

It looks as though some over voltage or surge condition has occurred and damaged a number of components/circuits on both boards. Im still hopeful this can be repaired!

Anyway I replaced the transistor and the amp now shuts down and powers up only when light is present at the fibre connector.

Processor is still resetting every second or so when powered up. Interesting, when running the processor card from only 5V and 3.3V it seems to work OK and the processors are running.

I suspect some feedback from the amplifier card is shutting it down or there is something up with the 12V rail on the processor card.

Stuart

Last edited by stuartjohn24; 01-19-2013 at 12:55 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-21-2013, 01:20 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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For those of you following...

I have been playing around with this again today, to cut a long story short the amplifier card power supply circuit works ok now after the regulator repair.

However the processor card has still been resetting, I have been playing around checking address lines and data lines on the processor marked '1' in my previous post and suddenly the card started working again.

Probing the board with the scope in the area of the RAM IC (5 in the picture above) seems to fix it, it looks like a dry solder joint fixed by slight pressure of the probe on the board or the added capacitive influence of the scope probe wiring on one of the address lines stabilises it.

The amp stayed powered up for at least two minutes with a torch aimed at the fibre connector!

The picture below shows the processor (2 in the photo) kicking the watchdog IC (11 in the photo) every 976.8 micro seconds, that's basically 1000 times a second! The watchdog will wait a maximum of 1.2 seconds before resetting the processors if no pulse is received from the processor.



I will investigate what exactly is causing the board to 'fix' itself, I'm hoping its a dry joint or corrosion under the RAM IC that I can clean and touch up with a soldering iron.

Anyway will have another look tomorrow, I hope to report some good news and get some bass back in the 7 pretty soon!

Stuart
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  #48  
Old 01-22-2013, 01:04 PM
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Wow Stuart you been busy . I need to make
a mental Note to myself to remember to check
this topic & section of the site more often .

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Last edited by PAPER; 01-22-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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  #49  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:03 PM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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Well... Things started looking up! But... I noticed following further testing that some of the address lines between the processor, EEPROM and RAM were held low during some power-ups on random occasions. Sometimes the address lines would work intermittently, or do nothing for several power-ups. This became more and more frequent, I tried freezer spray on areas of the board to see if that changed things.

Spraying freezer spray onto the processor instantly makes it start working, sadly this points to the processor (1 in my picture above) itself being at fault. Pretty annoying, however being determined to fix this to save myself the cost of a new AMP I tried some other things as I have nothing to lose now.

Considering the failure of the main power supply regulator circuit and the subsequent over voltage of the 5V rail I started again with the EEPROMs, they seem to be working as some code is being read so that CPU kicks the watchdog. I removed the EEPROM labelled 3 in the picture and tested again, The address lines now have clean signals on them and I have tried 30+ power-ups using the fibre port and cycling the main power supply and it works perfectly every time.

Im wondering wether the EEPROM is heavily loading the processor address or data lines causing it to hang or over current or the chip select and output enable function of the EEPROM is not working and its writing data when the processor or RAM is trying to. Hopefully the EEPROM may be readable using a bench programmer, fingers crossed and I will program a new one.

Otherwise I will be on here begging for someone to read the code for me!

Stuart
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  #50  
Old 01-26-2013, 03:55 AM
stuartjohn24 stuartjohn24 is offline
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I have pulled the EEPROMS and managed to successfully read the code from them.

To my surprise I've had the EEPROM code on my laptop all along! The E65 data folder containing all the software for flashing modules in WinKFP has the amplifier software hidden away!

I have managed to extract the binaries from the files and successfully match them up with the HEX data pulled from the EEPROMS. I have used a program to compare the data to see if the data in the EEPROMS are damaged. Converting some of the HEX lines of code reveals the same software version and build date, however there are a few very minor differences....



You can see on line two that the first byte is 55 in the EEPROM, but it should be FF as shown from the disassembled winKFP file. Also address 105 has 16 bytes different, oddly the EEPROM just has 07 in every location, the other EEPROM is the same in that respect.

The rest of the file is identical, there are 208 pages comparing a total of 128 thousand bytes, would be time consuming doing that manually!

Anyway there is one exception, the winKFP file only has data at the beginning and very end of the EEPROM, there is a huge empty block in the middle, however most of this is occupied on the EEPROM, the reason for this appears to be a holding space for updating software, when you try and update the amp software using winKFP it will load the data to the free space an once all the data has been transferred correctly and the checksums match the amp will reboot and copy that data to the start of the EEPROM, this is the application code. The code at the end off the EEPROM I think is the boot loader. Anyway now I've sussed out the EEPROM software I'm going to flash some new EEPROMS and hope for the best!

I'm after a favour though, the newer amps don't have the epoxy covered processors, but have proper packages, does anyone have a picture of the newer amplifier PCB's or know the part number written on the processors?

Cheers

Stuart
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