Help me strip out some options from my build

Originally Posted by woodswatchco

BJ,
I appreciate all your posts on here but just so you know.... There are people out there who want their sport sedans to lean more towards the sport side than the luxury side. I tried to read the manual for the 328i and all the tech, idrive instructions made my head hurt. I can't believe how complicated it is to do simple things and all the options with idrive. I honestly wish BMW made an "old school" version or the 3 series. They could probably take 200lbs of electronics off the car and lower the price by $3000. I already think the X1 is a prime example of this. Less electronics and the older "platform" make the base price $6000 less and you still get the same engine and transmission. I ended up going with an M Sport manual with Harmon Kardon and red leather. I value going fast, bright colors, a great stereo. I wouldn't even care if the car had idrive. Also my comfort limit on spending was about $40k. I ended up at $41K give or take. Enjoy your loaded beauty. Some of us just can't spend that much and still appreciate BMW.

Don't get me wrong- the F30 is a great car even in its base configuration.

What I am saying is that, from a performance standpoint, what used to be the E46 or E90 in its base configuration you now need to pay for. The base E90 came with a super-stiff suspension, no body roll, whipped through the turns. The base F30 comes with a comfortable suspension that's awesome for every day driving but would disappoint the traditional 3 Series owner used to the E46 or E90 base setup. Softer, body leans in hard turns, power steering is a lot more numb.

In order to replicate the E46 or E90 performance feel one has to get an expensive Sport line option. Some would even say that that's not enough, have to get the Adaptive M Suspension atop that. That wasn't the case in years past. Back then, you got that "standard". You could buy a stripped E46 or E90 with zero options and have a killer road warrior. No more.

Great car, but there's been a change that people don't talk that much about. You need to spend more $ to get the road feel back. BMW took that away to appease those who found the base E90 suspension too rough (raises hand).

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

"Driving" is not taking a hairpin turn at 80 MPH. "Driving" is taking the kids to travel baseball games, taking the wife to the mall . . .

A depressing view.

F30 as dream crusher, akin to a mini van.

Originally Posted by krash

Yeah, if you're talking about the 5, that just adds to how ridiculous it is to buy a stripped down 4-cyl 528, without a nav and a rear view camera for $48,000. It would take a complete lack of common sense to do that. All you're buying is the badge, and quite frankly, you're getting seriously ripped off at that point. I'd be a 1000x happier in a Dodge Charger RT/MAX.

I disagree. BMW has never been about equipment. In C&D comparo, stripped down BMW often win over loaded competitors.

A 48000$ 528i would be a terrific buy (if it had the N52). It makes more sense than a 48000$ 328i, unless you value gadgets.

There is a reason why in December, BMW sold 8385 5-series, more than any competitors.... of the 3-series!

Originally Posted by Saintor

That's more commuting than driving.

Not it is not. That's why the 335i is still there. Not as a "factory performance car", but rather as a "factory fun-to-drive machine", where pleasure is above efficiency. And not only a commuter. I think that you need a Lexus. BMW are not for you.

Again, the average American drives at 28 MPH. That means that as much time as he's driving 80 MPH he's driving 20 MPH. You wouldn't know this because you live in a foreign country with thousands of miles of windy roads, a country BMW is not catering to.

Buying a 335i no-Line is laughable. Can't even imagine a 335i on the base suspension, would handle like a pogo stick.

BMW is morphing more towards Lexus than Porsche. The F30 is bigger, wider, softer, has a springy suspension, has true power steering, has a quiet cabin, comes with many base features, has something called "Comfort" mode, offers a line called "Luxury". Wake up. You can only remain in denial for so long.

Oh, you might want to take an F30 for a test drive before invading every thread with your bad advice and incorrect assumptions. You know, you might learn something.

BJ

Buying a 335i no-Line is laughable. Can't even imagine a 335i on the base suspension, would handle like a pogo stick.

Well, that's what base 328i have. Is it laughable?

The F30 base suspension is a bit too soft ) and lacks rigor (like the E90, specially on 16"). That's why that there is a Sport / M-Sport option.

Originally Posted by Elk

A depressing view.

F30 as dream crusher, akin to a mini van.

We own F30's because they are the best of both worlds. Sporty yet luxurious. That's the 3 Series value proposition, always has been.

But by removing the "sporty" suspension from the base model and making you pay for it, changes the dynamic of the audience. You need to come up with another $3,000+ for a similar driving feel to the E90 when you factor in the new standard options and the Sport line and the DHP. That limits the audience. Used to be if you could scrape together $349 a month you could get a car missing a ton of standard Honda features but get killer handling. No more. Now you're at $449 at a minimum.

That's all I'm saying.

BJ

Originally Posted by Saintor

Well, that's what base 328i have. Is it laughable?

The F30 base suspension is a bit too soft ) and lacks rigor (like the E90, specially on 16"). That's why that there is a Sport / M-Sport option.

The 328i pushes the limits of the base suspension in hard turns and strong acceleration so, yes, I'm saying that a 335i on the base suspension is likely too much in very hard conditions as a real "performance enthusiast" might drive it. Go ask them.

And you're making my point for me, thank you, when you talk about the Sport and M-Sport options. What used to be free of charge on an E90 is now pay-as-you-go on the F30. So when we discuss the base models, they're not just stripped of tech features and creature comforts; they're now stripped of crisp sport suspensions too.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The 328i pushes the limits of the base suspension in hard turns and strong acceleration so, yes, I'm saying that a 335i on the base suspension is likely too much in very hard conditions as a real "performance enthusiast" might drive it. Go ask them.

And you're making my point for me, thank you, when you talk about the Sport and M-Sport options. What used to be free of charge on an E90 is now pay-as-you-go on the F30. So when we discuss the base models, they're not just stripped of tech features and creature comforts; they're now stripped of crisp sport suspensions too.

BJ

The Sport pack was as needed on the E90 that it is needed on the F30, as I said. And wonder of wonders, that's a DRIVING-related equipment. And when mentioned that in C&D comparo, stripped down 3-series won, that was with sport pack, *of course*. So no, you have no point.

Originally Posted by Saintor

The Sport pack was as needed on the E90 that it is needed on the F30, as I said. And wonder of wonders, that's a DRIVING-related equipment. And when mentioned that in C&D comparo, stripped down 3-series won, that was with sport pack, *of course*. So no, you have no point.

Again, if you'd bother to take a test drive you'd realize that the base F30 suspension feels nothing at all like the base E90 suspension. You'd also realize that the Sport line F30 suspension is less grippy than the Sport package E90 suspension.

You drive a 7 year old 328i. You haven't driven an F30 in your life. You have a car with a value of $4,800. You don't belong in a forum or a thread filled with people ready to spend $48,000.

It's best if you stop responding to my posts. You'll have to take a test drive before I respond to you again. It's for the good of the forum.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Again, if you'd bother to take a test drive you'd realize that the base F30 suspension feels nothing at all like the base E90 suspension. You'd also realize that the Sport line F30 suspension is less grippy than the Sport package E90 suspension.

You drive a 7 year old 328i. You haven't driven an F30 in your life. You have a car with a value of $4,800. You don't belong in a forum or a thread filled with people ready to spend $48,000.

It's best if you stop responding to my posts. You'll have to take a test drive before I respond to you again. It's for the good of the forum.

BJ

Irony here is that I paid my last BMW 42540$ with no financing. So, don't try make lessons about affordability when you are LEASING*. Please. That's just... irrational. BTW, I drove the N20 before probably anybody else here, various F30 too and yes, did you drive a F30 335i before getting that 328i? Oh wait, you drive at only 28mph.

(*disclaimer: not that I have anything against leasing).

IMO this has got to be the hardest thing to answer How can anybody give a honest answer when everything is personal preference and what the purchaser can afford For me these posts are a bunch of BS. What I like or dislike the next guy might not.
cheers
vern

If you're looking for the best engine/drivability/handling for the money, you shouldn't be looking at a 3 series.

So any arguments about money for gadgets/comforts people may or may not prefer seems kind of silly.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

BMW is morphing more towards Lexus than Porsche.

BJ

Originally Posted by Saintor

Irony here is that I paid my last BMW 42540$ with no financing. So, don't try make lessons about affordability when you are LEASING*. Please.

(*disclaimer: not that I have anything against leasing).

Leasing costs more than buying. Are you the King of the 80's Stereotypes or what?

Your out-of-pocket on your car since Fall of 2006 is $42,540 minus the $4,800 it's worth today if you sold it or $37,740. That's a monthly payment of $449 per month.

My out-of-pocket leasing my cars since Fall of 2006 is $50,820 or $605 per month.

I've spent $13,080 more than you have in the same time period, could buy 3 of your 2007 328i's for that much if I wanted to.

I'm not sure if you're living in a time warp or if things in Canada are just bass-ackwards. Either way, please stop commenting in a thread about options and features on a car that you have no knowledge of, just a bunch of twisted 2003 type thoughts that aren't relevant or factual anymore. You're giving prospective new owners the wrong impression of the car and really bad advice, especially about what the base model drives and handles like.

BJ

Originally Posted by vern

. . . everything is personal preference and what the purchaser can afford . . .

Exactly. Moreover. a BMW is neither the best bang for the buck or the most gadgets for the money.

No one but you can decide the where the best yuck/buck ratio is.

Originally Posted by Elk

Exactly. Moreover. a BMW is neither the best bang for the buck or the most gadgets for the money.

No one but you can decide the where the best yuck/buck ratio is.

Yes, if you want the best bang for your buck or the most gadgets for your money, you're definitely on the wrong forum.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Leasing costs more than buying. Are you the King of the 80's Stereotypes or what?

Your out-of-pocket on your car since Fall of 2006 is $42,540 minus the $4,800 it's worth today if you sold it or $37,740. That's a monthly payment of $449 per month.

My out-of-pocket leasing my cars since Fall of 2006 is $50,820 or $605 per month.

I've spent $13,080 more than you have in the same time period, could buy 3 of your 2007 328i's for that much if I wanted to.

I'm not sure if you're living in a time warp or if things in Canada are just bass-ackwards. Either way, please stop commenting in a thread about options and features on a car that you have no knowledge of, just a bunch of twisted 2003 type thoughts that aren't relevant or factual anymore. You're giving prospective new owners the wrong impression of the car and really bad advice, especially about what the base model drives and handles like.

BJ

I don't really know or care if you just don't know how to manage your money, realize that you bought a more expensive car. BTW, don't make sound that 605$/mo is a lot of money (rather on the lower spectrum of luxo-market, a loaded 335i is 1200$/mo here and still in the entry-level segment), it isn't and I won't entertain your nonsense and invalid comparison that doesn't hold water.

In any way, you are a clown and please replace your BJ initials for BS.

Some of the coolest BMW technologies are yet to be available on F30, e.g., 6WB, "Multifunctional instrument panel".

Originally Posted by Saintor

I don't really know or care if you just don't know how to manage your money, realize that you bought a more expensive car. BTW, don't make sound that 605$/mo is a lot of money (rather on the lower spectrum of luxo-market, a loaded 335i is 1200$/mo here and still in the entry-level segment), it isn't and I won't entertain your nonsense and invalid comparison that doesn't hold water.

In any way, you are a clown and please replace your BJ initials for BS.

I can afford any car I want. Any car. I choose to be smart and not burn money on a depreciating asset.

You started this tangent by making the accusation that because I was leasing I wasn't spending as much as you did on your car which is patently false. Those who buy cars, keep them for 7 years, and then sell them aren't "exceptional BMW buyers". They are just figuring out a way to drive a luxury badge for less money. Those who lease cars, turn them every 3 years, and keep on leasing, are "exceptional BMW customers". They aren't looking for cracks in the system. They are spending luxury money and are embracing it.

If I leased your exact configuration at the same moment you bought yours, I'd still be spending more money than you. Leasing isn't how people cheat their way into BMW's; buying and keeping them forever is.

I'm not a clown, I don't appreciate the personal attack. What I am is smart. Can't help you with that.

BJ

Originally Posted by exl_ent_v6

2013 BMW 328i xDrive Sedan ($38,850) ($53,725 with options)
+Sport Line ($2,500)
+Mineral Grey Metallic ($550)
+Cold Weather Package ($950)
+Dynamic Handling Package ($1,000)
+Lighting Package ($900)
+Premium Package ($3100)
+Technology Package ($3100)
+Sport Automatic Transmission with Paddles ($500)
+Harman Kardon Sound System ($875)
+Automatic High Beams ($250)
+Park Distance Control ($750)
+Rear-View Camera ($400)

Delete everything above.
Add:
335i RWD sport line jet black with DHP and Sport auto.
If you really have to, get heated seats.
My rationale: does a better stereo and cameras make up for the inline 6 vs turbo 4, no matter how good N20 is, its not best suited for this car. Also, with 335 you get some other things as standart, moonroof, adaptive lights, and spot line is 1,700 on 335 vs 2,500 on 328, so the real $ difference is only 2 or 3k. I currently have xdrive after 2 RWD, e90 and e60, and do not recomend xdrive. Takes too much away from handling. Also, the e60 and e90 were 528 and 328, eventhough they were rated with less power, they felt better than current 328. I would not get a 328 as my next car unless it goes back to 6 inline engine.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

This ties back to the misperception of the F30.

Back in the day, you could get a stripped E46 and still wind up in an extremely responsive enthusiasts car that handled well and gave you a lot of value for the buck.

Today, the stripped F30 doesn't have that same type of enthusiasts suspension and completely lacks most of the creature comforts found on other cars in lower classes at half the price. Today, to replicate that E46 stripper you have to spend thousands of dollars on suspension upgrades and packages. The times have changed, and the 3 Series is not what it once was. You now have to pay to get more just like all other luxury cars.

What is happening quite often now is that people don't understand this. They think that being noble and buying a stripped F30 is closer to the 'core' of what the BMW 3 Series is all about. Unfortunately, they would be very wrong about that. Not only do you have to pay for all the tech goodies and comfort features, but now you have to pay for the sports performance too.

It's putting people either in a car that disappoints them or a car that is too expensive for them. That's why this particular conversation gets so controversial.

BJ

could not agree more

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The average American drives 15,000 miles per year at an average of 28 MPH on a combination of residential streets and public highways.

"Driving" is not taking a hairpin turn at 80 MPH. "Driving" is taking the kids to travel baseball games, taking the wife to the mall, commuting at rush hour. You can take a sport suspension and throw it out the window in those conditions. You need a good audio system, a navigation system, satellite radio, backup camera, and park distance sensors to have "enthusiasm" for typical driving conditions.

Put another way, drivers have the need to open their trunk with their right foot far more than they have the need to use it on the accelerator. Funny thing about people who can afford $50,000 German luxury cars. They can afford $15,000 Miata's, Civic's, and E36's as weekend cars for the type of fun you subscribe to.

There used to be a time that you got A+ Powerup credit on Bimmerfest for your throwback attitude; wrong forum for that now. The dinosaur myth of the 3 Series as a factory performance car with a badge are long over. Move on. BMW has.

BJ

Can you explain why do you need a bmw to sit in traffic or take your kids to the game? Is it just to show off to your neighbors, or do you get it because you expect certain level of performance from the car? For a skilled driver who takes pleasure in driving, the dynamics of the car in a bumper to bumper traffic are no less important than at 90mph, imo. Why would one pay 50k for a german "sport" sedan, better yet a "bechmark" of what a sport sedan should be, and then have to buy a 20k car to have "real driving fun"? I drive 7 days a week. Why should only 2 of those days be fun? Not sure what i am missing? BMW made their mark as a driving machine company, and that is why people were willing to pay the premium. Now they are trying to become more like lexus or merc, a luxury car copmpany, while capitalizing on their past reputation. It will only work for so long. When it comes to the level of luxury, they are behind their main rivals, imo. Handling was their nitch where very few could compete with them. There are many more competitors in the luxury segment.

BMW is classy, Nuff said. If you don't wana look classy go buy a Toyota lol Nuff said.

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Performance will.come with how much you want to come in box, BMW is always classy tho. Chick magnet......

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Originally Posted by leephoto

BMW is classy, Nuff said. If you don't wana look classy go buy a Toyota lol Nuff said.

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At some point you have to decide whether you are buying a car or a suit.

CA