DHP - Is It Active Steering?

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

If you drove a car that you thought had DHP and couldn't notice a difference between modes, then the car you were driving didn't have DHP. It's not subtle.

When my wife was driving our 335, I switched between the various modes on her. The difference blew her away even though she is not normally into these kind of things.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

If you drove a car that you thought had DHP and couldn't notice a difference between modes, then the car you were driving didn't have DHP. It's not subtle.

See, this is where I feel like a yutz.

I went out yesterday and worked really hard to feel the difference. It was raining so couldn't push things and so I just tried to feel a difference on various road surfaces. In some cases I might imagine I felt a difference but if there was one, it was indeed subtle.

Yes, I have DHP; yes, it is configured to be active in Sport mode; and yes, I crawled under to check for shipping blocks.

Can someone give me some simple directions for actions to take - types of roads to drive, or how hard to push the car - that will make me jump up and say: "Ah ha! Now I feel it!"

As a side note, do not compare the steering feel of other cars with totally different setups.

I read stuff like, "Well I test drove a base e90 on 16" wheels with last generation run-flat all-seasons, a soft suspension, and a standard steering wheel and it's steering feel felt SO MUCH WORSE/DISCONNECTED/LIGHT than my f30 on modern summer-tire run-flats, a sport suspension, and a sport steering wheel."

Originally Posted by danderer

Can someone give me some simple directions for actions to take - types of roads to drive, or how hard to push the car - that will make me jump up and say: "Ah ha! Now I feel it!"

If you don't feel the car stiffen up then there is something wrong with the car or you just aren't in tune with what it's doing.

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

As a side note, do not compare the steering feel of other cars with totally different setups."

Good point! I have been guilty about doing that too in comparing the steering of our last E46 to our F30.

Originally Posted by danderer

See, this is where I feel like a yutz.

I went out yesterday and worked really hard to feel the difference. It was raining so couldn't push things and so I just tried to feel a difference on various road surfaces. In some cases I might imagine I felt a difference but if there was one, it was indeed subtle.

Can someone give me some simple directions for actions to take - types of roads to drive, or how hard to push the car - that will make me jump up and say: "Ah ha! Now I feel it!"

Take you car on a stretch of a winding road in your area, preferably with hills and when traffic is light and try it on the different modes and then see if you can feel the difference.

Drive over a speed bump in comfort then in sport.

Originally Posted by NordicBob

Take you car on a stretch of a winding road in your area, preferably with hills and when traffic is light and try it on the different modes and then see if you can feel the difference.

Originally Posted by Kar Don

Drive over a speed bump in comfort then in sport.

Thanks. Did both of the above and couldn't feel any real difference.

Took the car to my CA (who is a better driver and knows BMWs a bit more than I) and it was his feeling that 1) the car did indeed feel like it had Adaptive M (we knew that, just confirming that he felt it) and 2) he also perceived no difference between Comfort and Sport modes.

There is an open question if there SHOULD be a perceptible difference - based on info from here and other places my answer is "yes there should".

It should be a very noticeable difference. In my case as soon as I turn on sport mode and the suspension tightens up I can feel every little crease and heave in the roadway... which I cannot feel on comfort mode. You might just not have as much sensitivity to it. I've driven cars with very stiff sport suspensions for over 15 years, the difference is night and day. If you can't notice it then I'd say you wasted your $$.

Dealership is still researching but they report they had another employee drive a car they had on the lot with DHP. The report: "He couldn't tell the difference on that car either."

So I now have 3 people (one being me) reporting on two different cars that they feel no difference.

Strange.

*facepalm*

Originally Posted by danderer

Dealership is still researching but they report they had another employee drive a car they had on the lot with DHP. The report: "He couldn't tell the difference on that car either."

So I now have 3 people (one being me) reporting on two different cars that they feel no difference.

Strange.

If you can't feel a difference, how do you even know it's equipped or doing anything?

The entire point of having multiple modes/options is so that you can FEEL a difference. If you can't, they may as well be fake buttons.

At the same time, many people are prone to the placebo effect of their own expectations. This can exaggerate what they believe they notice. A good example is how many people think a sport suspension has dramatically increased their handling ability, while in reality it's actually decreased their car's abilities due to inferior dynamic suspension geometry.

One of my favorite examples of that is sway bars: Often times people like sway bars because they remove body roll and perhaps increases neutrality. And very frequently as well, the installation of the sway bar actually decreases the limits of the car because the tire contact patch is now no longer optimized when the car is loaded.

Originally Posted by danderer

Dealership is still researching but they report they had another employee drive a car they had on the lot with DHP. The report: "He couldn't tell the difference on that car either."

So I now have 3 people (one being me) reporting on two different cars that they feel no difference.

Strange.

Thanks for your update.

Out of curiosity, which models did these people drive that felt no difference: Sport Line, M-Sport?

Since the person at the dealership could not "tell the difference" and you state that they are "still researching," in what way are they investigating it? Have they reported these findings to BMW or are they checking out the cars that the drivers could not feel the difference?

I find it strange that BMW would market and charge $1000 for something that has no effect? Could these cars be defective in some way?

Bob

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

If you can't feel a difference, how do you even know it's equipped or doing anything?

The entire point of having multiple modes/options is so that you can FEEL a difference. If you can't, they may as well be fake buttons.

At the same time, many people are prone to the placebo effect of their own expectations. This can exaggerate what they believe they notice. A good example is how many people think a sport suspension has dramatically increased their handling ability, while in reality it's actually decreased their car's abilities due to inferior dynamic suspension geometry.

One of my favorite examples of that is sway bars: Often times people like sway bars because they remove body roll and perhaps increases neutrality. And very frequently as well, the installation of the sway bar actually decreases the limits of the car because the tire contact patch is now no longer optimized when the car is loaded.

No placebo affect here, thanks. As soon as the car is put into sport mode I can feel the all of the frost heaves and pavement joints as the area where I live has concrete slabs instead of glassy smooth asphalt. There are also several road dips, where, at the same speeds, the car goes over those dips feeling completely 100% different if it is in sport, vs comfort. I'm not "imagining" that, it's obvious.

Additionally, the car is much easier to toss into the corners when it is in sport mode than when it is in comfort mode.

I am highly skeptical that there's anything wrong with any of these cars... other than people who simply don't care about how the car drives. I once had a car with a broken seat frame, you could feel the broken frame tapping around under the seat... it was OBVIOUS, but two different mechanics at my Audi dealer "couldn't feel a thing". After I insisted they look at it more closely they took the seat apart and discovered the frame was broken. Duh.

Originally Posted by danderer

Dealership is still researching but they report they had another employee drive a car they had on the lot with DHP. The report: "He couldn't tell the difference on that car either."

So I now have 3 people (one being me) reporting on two different cars that they feel no difference.

Strange.

I thought I'd go back and close the loop on this one.

• I couldn't feel any difference between Comfort and Sport/Sport+ modes in the suspension.
• Had my CA drive the car and he agreed there was no difference.
• Was told someone else at the dealership had driven a different car with DHP and they reported no difference.
• BMW NA said to have it brought in for service.

In the interim I was able to create a couple situations where I thought I felt a difference, though less than I would have expected.

• Service department test-drove the car yesterday and reported it felt correct. They went through the system and reported everything - sensors and struts - were working correctly.
• Service manager took me out for a drive afterwards. Again in several situations I felt a difference, though the manager did agree the difference isn't all that great.

My conclusion: It works, but my expectations were too high.

Originally Posted by danderer

I thought I'd go back and close the loop on this one.


My conclusion: It works, but my expectations were too high.

Out of curiosity, which F30 model do you own?

I own an F30 without Adaptive Suspension. But when put in Sports or Sports + mode, the steering and throttle responses and the shifting point have changed and they are very obvious. So I cannot imagine the Adaptive Suspension changes to be so subtle??!

I have also driven Audi TT with Magnetic Ride, and the difference between "Normal" and "Sport" was very obviously, so again, I would expect BMW active suspension to perform similarly.

Originally Posted by NordicBob

Out of curiosity, which F30 model do you own?

2013 no-line 328 xDrive.

Originally Posted by ks200906

I own an F30 without Adaptive Suspension. But when put in Sports or Sports + mode, the steering and throttle responses and the shifting point have changed and they are very obvious. So I cannot imagine the Adaptive Suspension changes to be so subtle??!

Agreed on the throttle/shift points. And of course subtle is in the eye of the beholder - maybe I'm just dense/insensitive. That wouldn't surprise anyone who knows me..

Originally Posted by danderer

Agreed on the throttle/shift points. And of course subtle is in the eye of the beholder - maybe I'm just dense/insensitive. That wouldn't surprise anyone who knows me..

Bingo.