Help me strip out some options from my build

Originally Posted by leephoto

BMW is classy, Nuff said. If you don't wana look classy go buy a Toyota lol Nuff said.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Bimmer App

some of us do not need a car to be classy, some us will not look classy no matter what they drive

Originally Posted by PK2348

Can you explain why do you need a bmw to sit in traffic or take your kids to the game? Is it just to show off to your neighbors, or do you get it because you expect certain level of performance from the car? For a skilled driver who takes pleasure in driving, the dynamics of the car in a bumper to bumper traffic are no less important than at 90mph, imo. Why would one pay 50k for a german "sport" sedan, better yet a "bechmark" of what a sport sedan should be, and then have to buy a 20k car to have "real driving fun"? I drive 7 days a week. Why should only 2 of those days be fun? Not sure what i am missing? BMW made their mark as a driving machine company, and that is why people were willing to pay the premium. Now they are trying to become more like lexus or merc, a luxury car copmpany, while capitalizing on their past reputation. It will only work for so long. When it comes to the level of luxury, they are behind their main rivals, imo. Handling was their nitch where very few could compete with them. There are many more competitors in the luxury segment.

My parents owned a 1981 7 Series, was the first car I ever drove, just loved it. Years went by, I did pretty well on my own, started driving 3 Series myself, loved them just as much. BMW is just my brand, can't really tell you why other than it is of high quality, the design is just gorgeous, it drives like a dream, and it sends a positive message about me to those who see me in it.

I drive the 3 Series because it is the perfect blend of luxury and sport. However, I'm in a fairly narrow niche of owners who drive the 3 Series because its is a practical and inexpensive car for my social/financial standing. While many of my contemporaries drive $100,000 cars and feel I should too, I like being in a $50,000 car as it's all I need. The 5 is too big, the 1 is too small, the 3 is just right.

As far as BMW's own strategy, the car tells the story. You pay more, you get more. You want a track-worthy ride, you get a Sport line and add DHP and Adaptive M Suspension. You want a sumptuous ride, you get a Luxury line and add the Technology and Premium packages. BMW isn't giving the sporty ride for free anymore. It's still there, you just need to pay for it. I guess they're finding that the no-Line customer just wants the badge and that the Sport customer has the money to pay more.

That's how BMW attacks Lexus and Mercedes Benz. That's the strategy. Soften the ride, increase the dimensions, add more standard equipment. The baby-boomers have been the bread-and-butter of the 3 Series, they're older now, harsh suspensions feel great in the corners when you're 40 but don't help herniated discs when you're 60. The car doesn't start as a sport sedan that then struggles to be a luxury sedan; other way around now.

BJ

Originally Posted by leephoto

BMW is classy, Nuff said. If you don't wana look classy go buy a Toyota lol Nuff said.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

At some point you have to decide whether you are buying a car or a suit.

CA

Or, BMW is trying to make the car the suit. Pick one that fits, pick the style that's right for you, choose the cut that sends the right message, done.

BMW's have been status-symbols since the 1980's. The whole yuppie thing, movies like "Pretty In Pink", rock songs, rap songs, TV shows, everywhere. It's been carefully cultivated by BMW themselves, pretty brilliantly in fact. BMW stands behind the Ultimate Driving Machine, pop culture stands behind the Ultimate Status Symbol, and you wind up with a car that's both.

As the other poster said, if one doesn't want to look classy, one shouldn't buy a classy car. If one doesn't want to be seen in a shallow status symbol, one should stop buying them. If one gets upset when people perceive them as "arrogant rich yuppies", well, buy a car from a brand that says "humble poor working class" and problem solved. There are lots of Kia's on the road for drivers who want to lay low, be "of the people", and avoid stereotyping.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

My parents owned a 1981 7 Series, was the first car I ever drove, just loved it. Years went by, I did pretty well on my own, started driving 3 Series myself, loved them just as much. BMW is just my brand, can't really tell you why other than it is of high quality, the design is just gorgeous, it drives like a dream, and it sends a positive message about me to those who see me in it.

I drive the 3 Series because it is the perfect blend of luxury and sport. However, I'm in a fairly narrow niche of owners who drive the 3 Series because its is a practical and inexpensive car for my social/financial standing. While many of my contemporaries drive $100,000 cars and feel I should too, I like being in a $50,000 car as it's all I need. The 5 is too big, the 1 is too small, the 3 is just right.

As far as BMW's own strategy, the car tells the story. You pay more, you get more. You want a track-worthy ride, you get a Sport line and add DHP and Adaptive M Suspension. You want a sumptuous ride, you get a Luxury line and add the Technology and Premium packages. BMW isn't giving the sporty ride for free anymore. It's still there, you just need to pay for it. I guess they're finding that the no-Line customer just wants the badge and that the Sport customer has the money to pay more.

That's how BMW attacks Lexus and Mercedes Benz. That's the strategy. Soften the ride, increase the dimensions, add more standard equipment. The baby-boomers have been the bread-and-butter of the 3 Series, they're older now, harsh suspensions feel great in the corners when you're 40 but don't help herniated discs when you're 60. The car doesn't start as a sport sedan that then struggles to be a luxury sedan; other way around now.

BJ

seems like you're more concerned with how other people "feel" about you, then the road "feel" we used to have in a base bmw. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy. i care for how the car feels when i drive it, not what others think of me. granted the build quality , level of engineering, reliability and service are factors as well. I can afford more than one 100k car, but if i did it would just be a silly waste. and anyone who judges me or others by how expensive their car is, i just dont take seriously

Originally Posted by PK2348

seems like you're more concerned with how other people "feel" about you, then the road "feel" we used to have in a base bmw. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that if it makes you happy. i care for how the car feels when i drive it, not what others think of me. granted the build quality , level of engineering, reliability and service are factors as well. I can afford more than one 100k car, but if i did it would just be a silly waste. and anyone who judges me or others by how expensive their car is, i just dont take seriously

Yeah, you're trying to get into the whole class-warfare thing and I'm just not in the mood. For some reason there's this underlying refusal to believe that a BMW is a status-symbol in some people's minds and some dislike for those who embrace that.

It's a car. You love yours, I love mine, we're all good.

As far as the loss of road "feel", that stuff worked when I was in my 20's, doesn't fly anymore here in my 40's. Single guy, rolling around, driving like a maniac, it was fun. But then I grew up, got a big job, got a wife, got kids, they don't like the harsh suspension, they don't like when dad drives like an immature kid, makes my 11 year old nauseous. So, for me, I was thinking of walking away from BMW and trading my E90 in for another brand when word hit the street that BMW softened up the suspension, created a "Luxury" line, had something called a "Comfort" mode, had an adjustable experience switch to flip the car from 'safe' to 'sport' when dad wanted to be naughty, I was sold.

The legendary BMW sport feel is still there. You just need to pay for it. Get a Sport line, get the DH Package, get the Adaptive M Suspension, the 3 Series is better than ever. One for you, one for me, full of win. If I ever want to play some Styx and pretend that I'm 17 again, I'll just buy a nice E36 M3 as a weekend plaything and that'll be that.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Leasing costs more than buying. Are you the King of the 80's Stereotypes or what?

Your out-of-pocket on your car since Fall of 2006 is $42,540 minus the $4,800 it's worth today if you sold it or $37,740. That's a monthly payment of $449 per month.

My out-of-pocket leasing my cars since Fall of 2006 is $50,820 or $605 per month.

I've spent $13,080 more than you have in the same time period, could buy 3 of your 2007 328i's for that much if I wanted to.

I'm not sure if you're living in a time warp or if things in Canada are just bass-ackwards. Either way, please stop commenting in a thread about options and features on a car that you have no knowledge of, just a bunch of twisted 2003 type thoughts that aren't relevant or factual anymore. You're giving prospective new owners the wrong impression of the car and really bad advice, especially about what the base model drives and handles like.

BJ

You are not very good in finance either. First of all, you paid more, but bmw also gave you few cars instead of just one. Second, you paid more because you're paying interest. becasue in essense you borrowed the purchase price from the bmw financial, and you pay them back in monthly payments and then at the end by returning the car. It's a fairly simple amortization schedule if you're familiar with it. When your lease is over BMW owns your car and most likely has to sell at a car auction at whatever it brings in. They would much rather get a check from you upfront for the full purchase price. The interest built in to your payments also reflects the risk of the car overdepreciating when the lease is over. So you paid BMW to retain the risk of ownership. Anytime financial risk can be eliminated is good for business, as it removes uncertainty. Long term reliability and long term owners are important as it has direct effect on what they get for the car when your lease is over.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Or, BMW is trying to make the car the suit. Pick one that fits, pick the style that's right for you, choose the cut that sends the right message, done.

BMW's have been status-symbols since the 1980's. The whole yuppie thing, movies like "Pretty In Pink", rock songs, rap songs, TV shows, everywhere. It's been carefully cultivated by BMW themselves, pretty brilliantly in fact. BMW stands behind the Ultimate Driving Machine, pop culture stands behind the Ultimate Status Symbol, and you wind up with a car that's both.

As the other poster said, if one doesn't want to look classy, one shouldn't buy a classy car. If one doesn't want to be seen in a shallow status symbol, one should stop buying them. If one gets upset when people perceive them as "arrogant rich yuppies", well, buy a car from a brand that says "humble poor working class" and problem solved. There are lots of Kia's on the road for drivers who want to lay low, be "of the people", and avoid stereotyping.

BJ

3 series only conveys status to the poor. The wealthy know that true status only comes from an S class or up. The uberwealthy don't care about cars. Kennedy drove a Saab.

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

3 series only conveys status to the poor. The wealthy know that true status only comes from an S class or up. The uberwealthy don't care about cars. Kennedy drove a Saab.

+1

Judging status by someone's material possessions, be it cars, watches, clothes etc., is a really poor indication of wealth by and large. I learnt pretty quickly that there are a ton of people out there making low six figures, having the Rolex, BMW, Armani suit etc. but with no meaningful net worth. Even houses aren't great indicator, a lot of people making decent money are still mortgaged to the hilt.

Originally Posted by PK2348

You are not very good in finance either. First of all, you paid more, but bmw also gave you few cars instead of just one. Second, you paid more because you're paying interest. becasue in essense you borrowed the purchase price from the bmw financial, and you pay them back in monthly payments and then at the end by returning the car. It's a fairly simple amortization schedule if you're familiar with it. When your lease is over BMW owns your car and most likely has to sell at a car auction at whatever it brings in. They would much rather get a check from you upfront for the full purchase price. The interest built in to your payments also reflects the risk of the car overdepreciating when the lease is over. So you paid BMW to retain the risk of ownership. Anytime financial risk can be eliminated is good for business, as it removes uncertainty. Long term reliability and long term owners are important as it has direct effect on what they get for the car when your lease is over.

You basically just agreed with BJ. His whole point is leasing is more expensive. You pay a premium to get into a brand new car every 3 years and never worry about a car out of warranty. Yes, you end up paying more in interest, and you always have a car payment -- that's the premium.

Originally Posted by PK2348

You are not very good in finance either. First of all, you paid more, but bmw also gave you few cars instead of just one. Second, you paid more because you're paying interest. becasue in essense you borrowed the purchase price from the bmw financial, and you pay them back in monthly payments and then at the end by returning the car. It's a fairly simple amortization schedule if you're familiar with it. When your lease is over BMW owns your car and most likely has to sell at a car auction at whatever it brings in. They would much rather get a check from you upfront for the full purchase price. The interest built in to your payments also reflects the risk of the car overdepreciating when the lease is over. So you paid BMW to retain the risk of ownership. Anytime financial risk can be eliminated is good for business, as it removes uncertainty. Long term reliability and long term owners are important as it has direct effect on what they get for the car when your lease is over.

I run a $300M division of a Fortune 500 company, have a dual-income SVP wife, own two homes, have 4 kids whose college funds are secured, am on track for an early retirement mid-50's, have no debt whatsoever (aside from minimal mortgages for tax purposes), and have a 7-figure net worth that makes me blush. So, yeah, I think I am actually "very good in finance" thank you very much. Might want to think twice before insulting strangers on the internet next time.

Your rambling high-school version of how leasing works is really thoughtful of you, but you're proving my entire point: If you pay more you can get a new car every 3 years, eliminate the loss of owning a depreciating asset, and eliminate the variability of service and repairs completely. Those who buy a $45,000 BMW, keep it for 7+ years, and then sell it off are the ones who are being thrifty, driving the financial equivalent of a $20,000 car for that span. Lecture them. Tell them that they're in over their heads, shouldn't be owning a BMW they really can't afford.

BJ

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

3 series only conveys status to the poor. The wealthy know that true status only comes from an S class or up. The uberwealthy don't care about cars. Kennedy drove a Saab.

The Average American family makes $51,000 a year. They can't afford a BMW because the $500 lease payment is almost as much as their mortgage. Those aren't "poor" people. Those are just average people.

The wealthy know that true status comes from an impressive job title, strong investment portfolio, high net worth, early retirement, paid college educations, summer homes, and family vacations. The cars don't count. I know several multi-millionaires who are very happy in their 3 Series', Odyssey's, and Yukon's. I've got several friends in their AMG's and Porsche's, no knock on them, I'd do the same thing if I wanted to, I'd rather be smarter with my money.

BJ

Originally Posted by KLC

You basically just agreed with BJ. His whole point is leasing is more expensive. You pay a premium to get into a brand new car every 3 years and never worry about a car out of warranty. Yes, you end up paying more in interest, and you always have a car payment -- that's the premium.

Bingo.

It's 2013. There is no point in owning cars anymore. If most of us on this forum are paying $350-$450 in a lease payment that's not really a lot of money. I pay $700 for gas/electric, $400 for TV/phone/internet, $300 for mobile phones, $800 for groceries. You can't tell me that a car is not the same thing as any of these other monthly outlays. All are necessary to live your life every month.

Not sure why the $400 lease payment is put on this uber pedestal vs. these other things. No one is screaming that we should "own" our utilities, pay for 7 years in advance to save a few dollars; we just pay the bill when we get it. Your car? Same thing. It's a necessary expense, just another utility. It's not some investment, there is no way to game the system. Those who purchase and-keep their cars forever could be leasing a $199 Honda and be in new cars but they choose to drive an aging BMW instead. Their choice, but financially it's the same thing.

Whip out your monthly budget, pick a number for car payments that works, pick the appropriate lease that fits your lifestyle. I'm at $1200 for both cars. That's my monthly budget. My BMW is $539. I'll lease for the rest of my life at or near that level, the 3 Series and it's ultimate service warranty ensures I won't spend a dime on maintenance, I won't hold debt in a depreciating asset, I'll be in a brand new car every 3 years.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

The Average American family makes $51,000 a year. They can't afford a BMW because the $500 lease payment is almost as much as their mortgage. Those aren't "poor" people. Those are just average people.

The wealthy know that true status comes from an impressive job title, strong investment portfolio, high net worth, early retirement, paid college educations, summer homes, and family vacations. The cars don't count. I know several multi-millionaires who are very happy in their 3 Series', Odyssey's, and Yukon's. I've got several friends in their AMG's and Porsche's, no knock on them, I'd do the same thing if I wanted to, I'd rather be smarter with my money.

BJ

I read a story in the NY times about a woman, homeless in Cheyenne, who was struggling to pay a $450 truck payment. Just. Plain. Nuts.

I like my E92 because of the way it drives. I don't think it conveys any status at all because, basically, a homeless person could own one.

Also status does not equal wealth. Article III judges don't make a lot.

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

3 series only conveys status to the poor.

Oh boy, here we go again...

Yeah, we know, the 3 Series is a peasant car. It's a car for the masses. It's just like a Volkswagen, the "People's car".

People everywhere can afford it. It's common. Everyone has one.

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

I don't think it conveys any status at all because, basically, a homeless person could own one.

Are you stupid or something?

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

Also status does not equal wealth. Article III judges don't make a lot.

Agree, and I don't know why people keep wanting to go down this road.

If you are driving an F30 you are in the conversation. It's up to each individual to lead a responsible financial life. But these endless lectures from self-righteous kids about "I don't have any respect for people who drive a BMW and wear a Rolex because life shouldn't be judged by perception", well, welcome to America bub. Ever hear of Capitalism?

BJ

Originally Posted by krash

Oh boy, here we go again...

Yeah, we know, the 3 Series is a peasant car. It's a car for the masses. It's just like a Volkswagen, the "People's car".

People everywhere can afford it. It's common. Everyone has one.

Originally Posted by krash

Are you stupid or something?

I don't know about you but I live in one of the most expensive counties in the country and I can drive 10 minutes and see over a dozen BMW's, MB's, the works.

But I can also drive 20 minutes and see a neighborhood where the newest car is from 1999 and there's not a luxury car in sight. I drive through and people are looking at me like I arrived from outer space.

I don't know if it's funny or frightening how out of touch with reality some of the posters in here are when it comes to what the typical American family looks like.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I don't know about you but I live in one of the most expensive counties in the country and I can drive 10 minutes and see over a dozen BMW's, MB's, the works.

But I can also drive 20 minutes and see a neighborhood where the newest car is from 1999 and there's not a luxury car in sight. I drive through and people are looking at me like I arrived from outer space.

I don't know if it's funny or frightening how out of touch with reality some of the posters in here are when it comes to what the typical American family looks like.

BJ

Yep, some people are totally clueless and absolutely have no idea what the macro economic realities are in this county.

There is a reason why the overwhelming majority of people buy used cars instead of new cars. And there is a reason why the top selling cars are the Camry, Civic, Corolla, Malibu and Fusion. It's money, or the lack thereof. The masses are buying cars for $25,000 or under.

You can't get into a BMW 3 Series without paying atleast $40,000. A $40,000 car is way out-of-sight for most 90% of the population.

Let me add here for the umpteenth time: there is no harsh ride in any line or mode in the F30 328i. Can't speak for the 335i.

I know many people ordered without test driving due to lack of availability and made decisions based on the E90, but that myth needs to go away.

Originally Posted by krash

Yep, some people are totally clueless and absolutely have no idea what the macro economic realities are in this county.

There is a reason why the overwhelming majority of people buy used cars instead of new cars. And there is a reason why the top selling cars are the Camry, Civic, Corolla, Malibu and Fusion. It's money, or the lack thereof. The masses are buying cars for $25,000 or under.

You can't get into a BMW 3 Series without paying atleast $40,000. A $40,000 car is way out-of-sight for most 90% of the population.

Exactly. And yet we sit here arguing over what the definition is of a "poor" person.

I shudder to think what a truly poor person would make of this forum. Bunch of rich guys and privileged offspring trying to act all "unaffected" and "humble" is about as insincere as it gets.

"I hate it when people show off in their BMW's because it makes me feel like I'm a pretentious yuppie when I'm not, I'm like a normal person, I have really good values, this is just a car that anyone can afford." Yeah, tell that to the guy who repairs your toilet, let me know what he thinks of you, Mr. Unaffected.

BJ

Originally Posted by exl_ent_v6

Guys, I have a quote pending from a broker on the 328i x-drive. I know I over built the car and it's going to come back over my budget. I even had them get prices with US v. ED maybe I can save a few bucks and go on vacation!

Here's what I submitted... take a look and help me narrow down some options. Don't just say "get rid of this you don't need it" help me understand why I really don't need or want it.

2013 BMW 328i xDrive Sedan ($38,850) ($53,725 with options)
+Sport Line ($2,500)
+Mineral Grey Metallic ($550)
+Cold Weather Package ($950)
+Dynamic Handling Package ($1,000)
+Lighting Package ($900)
+Premium Package ($3100)
+Technology Package ($3100)
+Sport Automatic Transmission with Paddles ($500)
+Harman Kardon Sound System ($875)
+Automatic High Beams ($250)
+Park Distance Control ($750)
+Rear-View Camera ($400)

It would help to know what your budget is, otherwise knowing what to strip out to get into your budget is impossible. What monthly payment are you comfortable with? I would figure that out, and then remove whatever options get you into that range. Also, if a well equipped 3-series is out of your budget, then perhaps consider getting a 1-series instead. A fully loaded 128i comes it quite a bit lower, and you can get a well optioned 135i, or even a 135is under 50k.

I would keep the highlighted ones. Also, as someone else stated, you can get into a nicely equipped 335 for a price close to this, and some of these options are standard (ex. lighting) on a 335. If there are any additional keeps, I would go with the parking. I have the DA package instead of the Parking, and I would have preferred to have the PDC and RVC.

For the tranny, skip the AT, and go with the 6MT. You're getting a sport line. drive it like a sports car. Also, remove the X-drive and go with RWD. Save 2K right there.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I run a $300M division of a Fortune 500 company, have a dual-income SVP wife, own two homes, have 4 kids whose college funds are secured, am on track for an early retirement mid-50's, have no debt whatsoever (aside from minimal mortgages for tax purposes), and have a 7-figure net worth that makes me blush. So, yeah, I think I am actually "very good in finance" thank you very much. Might want to think twice before insulting strangers on the internet next time.

Your rambling high-school version of how leasing works is really thoughtful of you, but you're proving my entire point: If you pay more you can get a new car every 3 years, eliminate the loss of owning a depreciating asset, and eliminate the variability of service and repairs completely. Those who buy a $45,000 BMW, keep it for 7+ years, and then sell it off are the ones who are being thrifty, driving the financial equivalent of a $20,000 car for that span. Lecture them. Tell them that they're in over their heads, shouldn't be owning a BMW they really can't afford.

BJ

This is too funny. I have to agree with a previous post in which you were referred to as a certain staff member of a travelling circus.

"I have enough money to last me the rest of my life, unless I buy something."

"My grandfather use to say 'Don't watch your money, watch your health'. While I was watching my health someone stole my money.
I found out later it was my grandfather."

Jackie Mason

Originally Posted by krash

Yep, some people are totally clueless and absolutely have no idea what the macro economic realities are in this county.

There is a reason why the overwhelming majority of people buy used cars instead of new cars. And there is a reason why the top selling cars are the Camry, Civic, Corolla, Malibu and Fusion. It's money, or the lack thereof. The masses are buying cars for $25,000 or under.

You can't get into a BMW 3 Series without paying atleast $40,000. A $40,000 car is way out-of-sight for most 90% of the population.

You missed my point. You can get into a BMW for $400 a month. That's the same as a Camry or what the F150 the guy fixing your toilet drove. Of course there are people who cannot afford any car payment but that's not part of the discussion. I don't see any point comparing a new car to a 1986 Olds Cutlass. NTTAWWT. My commuting car is closer to that and I love it. And -- I cast no judgment on people based on what they own or can afford, and I am not saying anyone here does either.

Some people are fooled into thinking a 3 series is a status symbol. It ain't. Great handling car for a reasonable price. Ain't no big deal.

Sigh.

For me...

I do well, but I have not "arrived". My F30 is not that kind of car. It is however a good match for where I am in life, i.e, nice house, nice income, management/sr level career wise, early 30's+no kids yet, but a lot more to go. My "I've arrived" car will not be a BMW-and certainly not a 3 series.