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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:56 AM
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Mark K Mark K is offline
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Very interesting thread. I think this might be the only country where consumers complain about having more choices (see some posts above).

By the way, there will be minimum 4 engine choices when new diesel specs are made public. Great time to be shopping for a new BMW 3 series.

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  #27  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:58 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
This will be BMW's best-selling 3 Series within two years.BJ
I agree, the 320i will sell at least as well as the 328. There is a significant segment of this market that will be perfectly happy with a 180 hp/200 lb-ft tq motor, especially with all that torque available at 1,250 rpms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
For $3-4k less the 320i can grab lots of sales from competitors in the targeted range.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
Yeah, they'll sell a lot of these. No doubt. No doubt at all.

Contrary to what a lot of people on the 'fest believe, a 328 is a real financial stretch for most people. This opens up an entirely new market segment for would be BMW buyers, a real huge market segment...
Bingo! Right on the money! (pun intended )

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Might also signal the end of the 335i completely. The 328i is only a hair less performance positive than the 335i right now is anyway. The 328i can become the top-of-the-line, the 320i the new bottom.

BJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfox335i View Post
The 335 isn't going anywhere.

The 328 doesn't touch the 335 in regards to performance. I don't care about 60 times and the quarter, however in regards to driving feel, the 328 was laggy and weak, which was the primary reason I went with the 335 over the 328.

This model doesn't make much sense to me either, 4K drop for losing 60HP? I don't get it, but I understand BJs point. It allows those on the fence for a 328, an option to still get into a new BMW. I still say, if you can't afford the 3 series, drop to a 1, or find something else to drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Regarding the 335i, your guess is as good as mine. One way to look at this is that the 4 Series is a step up line as well. So perhaps the 335i will only be available in the 4 and not the 3. You never know.

$4,000 is a big deal as is $33,000 price point. Cadillac has its Buick. Acura has its Honda. Lexus has its Toyota. BMW has no step-down brand so it has to do the heavy lifting itself. What I thought might be the 2 Series sedan may never happen now. What would that cost, $25,000?

Very interesting indeed.

BJ
The six isn't going anywhere. The 3er is still the top of the market performance, sport sedan and there is a significant segment of that market that wants the six cylinder motor.


-------------------------------------------------
I would say this is a good move for BMW. And I'm thinking there is a possibility this could open the door to a 1er sedan without a six cylinder. I can envision a 1er sedan offering the 120 and the 128 and no 135.

I'm sure this motor will also make its way into the X1.

It could also enable BMW to bring the Z4 back "down market" and into more affordable territory. BMW took the Z4 up market considerably with the new model and it has had a pretty negative effect on sales. There are a lot of roadster buyers who would be satisfied with this new motor in a Z4 at a lower price.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 01-14-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:58 AM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
A 330i and a 340i are inevitable.
Fixed.
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:01 AM
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tturedraider tturedraider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim330i View Post
Stay tuned for more pictures after the press conference!
Tim, would you ask if this car and the coupe are going to be at the Chicago Auto Show next month, please?
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  #30  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:02 AM
emtrey emtrey is offline
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This is disgusting. They will offer the M sport steering wheel on this "entry level" car BUT won't even sell me one for my 335 sportline ( I have tried). I have owned 9 BMWs and never been so disappointed in their control freak positioning of these cars.

Come on BMW----be true to your core customers and STOP trying to compete with every single car that comes out near your product's market.

Last edited by emtrey; 01-14-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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  #31  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
Wonder what the reason is for the 320 - the 328 and 335 serve the low and high end 3 series models.
At $38,000 base, a 328i is no longer "low" end.

Therefore, a 320i at $33,000. That puts it right where the "new" meat is. Consider this: A BMW 3-Series cheaper than an Honda Accord (V6, though).

And by the way, I would bet that the 180hp are at the wheels. This is like a 210hp/220lbs-ft engine.
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  #32  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:07 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
Wonder what the reason is for the 320 - the 328 and 335 serve the low and high end 3 series models.
The base F30 328 is now almost $37K. That's hardly a "base" model. However, 180 hp is weak. 200 would have been much better.
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  #33  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Vida_ View Post
Interesting. I wonder how big the market is for these
Huge. Not like most 328i buyers get the car to do 0-60 sprints.
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:25 AM
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Seems like we're going to see a ton of F30s on the road by year's end
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:28 AM
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More pictures of the 2013 F30 320i posted to the Bimmerfest gallery here - http://www.bimmerfest.com/bmw-photos...MW-320i-NAIAS/
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  #36  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Vida_ View Post
Seems like we're going to see a ton of F30s on the road by year's end
Yeah, and pretty soon 320i folks will dominate this forum.
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:35 AM
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BMW needs 335i in the segment to keep the competition on its toes, sorry a 328i cannot touch G37 performance, but can easily shut G25's.
The same with the ill fated ATS, MB C-class 250/350, the re-badged Toyota's IS 250/350. The only outsiders are VW group in this segment - A4 is a 328 rival, and the S4 is more positioned towards the M division competition.
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  #38  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:38 AM
pilotman pilotman is offline
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1) will you be able to somewhat affordably and easily "chip" this engine?

2) if the base price is $33k with bluetooth, etc standard....and nobody (at least on this board) pays MSRP for a BMW....what will deals look like?

For example, what will a $500-$1,000 over European delivery deal look like on this car......$29-$30k out the door?
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  #39  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:09 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
BMW needs 335i in the segment to keep the competition on its toes, sorry a 328i cannot touch G37 performance, but can easily shut G25's.
The same with the ill fated ATS, MB C-class 250/350, the re-badged Toyota's IS 250/350. The only outsiders are VW group in this segment - A4 is a 328 rival, and the S4 is more positioned towards the M division competition.
First, the 328 can get very close to G37 performance, not to be a magazine racer but this does give a good foundation-much closer than the G25:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/


http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

So the 328 is within a couple tenths of the G37, but seconds faster in most measures compared to the G25.


Don't forget, the ATS brags about the lower starting price thanks to the 2.5L. So now BMW gets to bring the 320 in which is as fast or faster at the same price. The 320 is already sold in other countries so it's kind of a no brainer to bring it here. It's just a detuned N20.
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  #40  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
I predict there will be a 320, a 328 (or 330), and a 340. Also a 528 (or 530) and a 540.
I agree. Looks like some naming convention changes are coming.

120i (Base car), 130i (essentially the 128i), 1M (I'm thinking they drop the 135i as too much competition for the 3, low end 4 series price/sales)
220i (Base car), 230i (coupe 128i), M2?
320i (Base car), 328i => 330i, 335i => 340i, M3
430i (which would be the turbo 4), and 440i (which would be the turbo 6), M4?
528i => 530i, 530i => 540i, 550i, M5 stays the same
640i, 650i, M6 stay the same
740i, 750i, 760i stay the same

What do you guys think?
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  #41  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:25 AM
elistan elistan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Vida_ View Post
So besides the C250, what would be competing with the 320i? Higher end Accords maybe?
FWD Audi A4? Starting price is $32,500.
And it undercuts the 200hp IS250.

Last edited by elistan; 01-14-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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  #42  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:34 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan View Post
FWD Audi A4? Starting price is $32,500.
And it undercuts the 200hp IS250.
Yep.

So we now have:

TSX 2.4
Audi A4 FWD CVT
ATS 2.5
IS250
C250

The 320 will be pretty competitive with all of them. Do not get hung up on the 180hp rating, willing to bet it easily does 180+ to the wheels.

This is not much of a gamble at all for BMW. The G25 lasted only a year. BMW already makes and sells the 320 elsewhere. This might also explain the $350 price increase on the 328.
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  #43  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:51 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Yep.

So we now have:

TSX 2.4
Audi A4 FWD CVT
ATS 2.5
IS250
C250

The 320 will be pretty competitive with all of them. Do not get hung up on the 180hp rating, willing to bet it easily does 180+ to the wheels. This is not much of a gamble at all for BMW. The G25 lasted only a year. BMW already makes and sells the 320 elsewhere. This might also explain the $350 price increase on the 328.
If it did 180 HP at the wheels, BMW would have listed the HP much higher at the flywheel. Why would you think this is so?
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  #44  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
If it did 180 HP at the wheels, BMW would have listed the HP much higher at the flywheel. Why would you think this is so?
I think because BMW, along with others, have often underrated the BHP figures.

Can't wait to see the European Delivery invoice pricing on this car.

What will lease prices look like??? (CHEAP)
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  #45  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:05 PM
m8o m8o is offline
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With owners of 328i often seeing hiway mpgs in the low to mid (if not high) 30s, why would anyone be thinking about this?
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  #46  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:06 PM
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Technic Technic is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
If it did 180 HP at the wheels, BMW would have listed the HP much higher at the flywheel. Why would you think this is so?
The 328i puts ~240hp out at the wheels.
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  #47  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:06 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
If it did 180 HP at the wheels, BMW would have listed the HP much higher at the flywheel. Why would you think this is so?
Because of experience with the N20.

This 320 is detuned, but has nearly identical hardware, it's the exhaust and DME tune.

The N20 328 dyno's it's crank HP at the wheels, I would bet the de-tuned version does the same.

BMW likely releases crank ratings on FI engines in the worst case scenario, like heat soaked.

Edmunds.com dyno'd the ATS 2.0 and the 328 N20 on the same dyno, both manuals. One rated 272 crank, the other 240. The N20 made 1-2hp more to the wheels. Does not mean GM overrated the 2.0T, in fact it's SAE verified. It's that BMW is excessively cautious.
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  #48  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:08 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m8o View Post
With owners of 328i often seeing hiway mpgs in the low to mid (if not high) 30s, why would anyone be thinking about this?
The person thinking $33k and a $299 lease are within budget and that $37k and $329 are not.

This is not so much a car for people on this forum, it's the numbers shoppers and the people who would consider the IS250, ATS 2.5, A4 BASE CVT etc.
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  #49  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:10 PM
Tirpitz Tirpitz is offline
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This is a smart move by BMW. I bought an X1 because it was in my price bracket. Though I tried mightily there was no way I could get a 328 configured with the things I wanted at anything near the price I paid for the X1. A 320 would have let me get the new F30 technologies while keeping the price affordable for me. That isn't to say that I still wouldn't have bought the X1 instead because of the cargo advantages and the extra horsepower but it would have made me think about it.

If I wasn't leaning wagon I would not be in a BMW today because of the price of the 328. Perhaps I'd be driving a TSX or even the top end new Accord.
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  #50  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:13 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Now maybe it's just me, but the pictures of the interior of the 320i look like lower quality interior materials.

This makes me wonder if BMW is going to strip the 3-series a bit beyond just a detuned n26. Will it have less sound deadening, cheaper materials, etc. (i.e. the 1-series)
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