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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:55 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqa4life View Post
face the reality!

2013 honda accord EX-L V6 is loaded and has more features than the base 328i and invoice on the Accord EX-L V6 is only $28292. Plus it has almost 280HP. Beat the hell out of the base 328i.
Fully loaded Accord V-6 is $33-34k.

This is not news.

BMW has never positioned the 3 to seem like a value against the Accord and Camry.
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  #102  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Reality Check:

While Bimmerfest would lead you to believe that the roads are filled with 28 year old 335i M-Sport owners in their Estoril Blue F30's, the real world is something very different.

The typical 3 Series driver is a 48 year old. She's 50% female. 60% of them are leasing. 90% are driving vehicles without Sport line or sport anything. 80% are 328i's. And with the average at 48 years old, for every 29 year old male enthusiast there's a 75 year old female using the car to hit the beauty salon.

So the reason "why would anyone be thinking about this" is because the typical 3 Series driver has to ditch important options for the sake of hitting a monthly budget. You see a $349 car advertised on TV. You come in. You add a few options. Suddenly you're at $479. Then you're out the door, off to Audi and off to Acura.

The one thing BMW won't let you trade out of in their most affordable Sedan is the powerplant. The 328i is a beast, extremely powerful. Some might say it's overkill. Certainly a 75 year old female wouldn't notice if you trimmed off 50 HP, might even appreciate it. Oh, and she can save $4,000? And then add the Premium package or the Technology package? Touchdown.

BJ
+1 and in three to four years the CPO market will explode with more younger BMW drivers who can afford a 18k to 20k three to four year old BMW with some warranty.
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  #103  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:58 PM
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US gets the 320i
Canada gets the 328d .... next week.
http://www.salonautomontreal.com/upl...s-2013_901.pdf

Nice comparo that includes a 320i.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=1BJojoXnGoo
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  #104  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:00 PM
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I think the 320i is a good step and will still be a terrific drive. However, I'm more interested in something that has a compression ignition engine.
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  #105  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqa4life View Post
face the reality!

2013 honda accord EX-L V6 is loaded and has more features than the base 328i and invoice on the Accord EX-L V6 is only $28292. Plus it has almost 280HP. Beat the hell out of the base 328i.
There was a time that the most expensive Honda Accord was still cheaper than a base 3-Series.

No more. That's what I meant.
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  #106  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Technic View Post
There was a time that the most expensive Honda Accord was still cheaper than a base 3-Series.

No more. That's what I meant.
Funny all this Accord talk. On Saturday, I sold my '06 Accord sedan. At the time I bought it new, it was the most expensive 4cyl Accord you could buy. EX with leather/Navigation. I think MSRP was $26.5K. On Friday, I pick up the most expensive 3-series (AH3) one can buy.

A loaded 3-series is still 2X the price of a loaded Accord.
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  #107  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:09 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
It's always been that way, nothing is really going to change except there will be more people stepping down from the 328i and newer young people enjoying the BMW brand for the first time.

And just like 335i owners look down upon 328i owners, we 328i folk now have a new group of people to pick on.

Mr. and Mrs. Camry know one thing: a new BMW versus an old BMW. So the more the merrier I say, so long as there are boatloads of E90‘s out there my status is safe. Keep yours in good shape, ya hear?

I'm surprised you're even posting today. Ironic isn't it? On the very day that the Cadillac ATS is proclaimed North American Car of the Year, BMW launches a vehicle that will destroy it before it ever gets off the ground.

BJ
Your status is no longer because a lot of college grads will be driving the 320i looking just like yours. Before the 320i you might have a semi legit reason to look down on the E90s because indeed a lot of them are driven by 20 year olds.

But now you have to eat the same pills too soon. So come with me and give the ATS a look. Since most of the ATS drivers will be old, you actually will raise your status as someone making it earlier in life than those old farts.
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  #108  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L0rd NIk0n View Post
+1 and in three to four years the CPO market will explode with more younger BMW drivers who can afford a 18k to 20k three to four year old BMW with some warranty.
If I were the owner of, say, a 2007 or 2011 E90, today's news devalued my ride 30%.

Not only the old bodystyle working against it, but why buy used when you can lease new for peanuts?

BJ
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  #109  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Funny all this Accord talk. On Saturday, I sold my '06 Accord sedan. At the time I bought it new, it was the most expensive 4cyl Accord you could buy. EX with leather/Navigation. I think MSRP was $26.5K. On Friday, I pick up the most expensive 3-series (AH3) one can buy.

A loaded 3-series is still 2X the price of a loaded Accord.
... and there is a Ford Escape that is more expensive than a BMW X3.

S**t just got real.
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  #110  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:11 PM
Crzy'boutBimmer Crzy'boutBimmer is online now
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Wonder what bmw would do next? It would have been better releasing a 1-series.. instead of downgrading a 3'er.

Oh, well.. so they screwed with the 3'er.. hope they dont mess with the M3, M5, etc..plz leave at least 1 good thing alone... I know sales means a lot to you (bmw)... but Class is something ure cherished for!!

Amen.
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  #111  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Your status is no longer because a lot of college grads will be driving the 320i looking just like yours. Before the 320i you might have a semi legit reason to look down on the E90s because indeed a lot of them are driven by 20 year olds.

But now you have to eat the same pills too soon. So come with me and give the ATS a look. Since most of the ATS drivers will be old, you actually will raise your status as someone making it earlier in life than those old farts.
Your car is worth 30% less than it was this morning. I doubt you can afford the ATS now.

BJ
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  #112  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer View Post
Wonder what bmw would do next? It would have been better releasing a 1-series.. instead of downgrading a 3'er.

Oh, well.. so they screwed with the 3'er.. hope they dont mess with the M3, M5, etc..plz leave at least 1 good thing alone... I know sales means a lot to you (bmw)... but Class is something ure cherished for!!

Amen.
Price-wise, BMW kept the M5 at bay, but moved the M6 and M6GC deeper into the $100,000+.

I expect the M3 to stay close to the current E92 M3 price and go really nuts with the M4 and the M4GC prices.

To me, the new reality will be moving most of the M sales to the upcoming 1- and 2-Series. And they will reach the high $50K anyways.

I do not know how much ceiling BMW thinks they got, but for sure they had to get into the $25-$33,000 bracket for volume just because they will soon have an over abundance of cars at the $65,000-$110,000+ bracket that will not be sold at volume regardless of incentive.

The X1 and the 320i are just the first step.
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  #113  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Wonder what bmw would do next?
After a 320i/328i 4-cyl., why not a FWD 3-series.
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  #114  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:41 PM
JoeFromPA JoeFromPA is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Your car is worth 30% less than it was this morning. I doubt you can afford the ATS now.

BJ
Breaking news: Older, depreciated cars not massively further depreciated when a trim line is introduced on an existing model.
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  #115  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Your status is no longer because a lot of college grads will be driving the 320i looking just like yours. Before the 320i you might have a semi legit reason to look down on the E90s because indeed a lot of them are driven by 20 year olds.

But now you have to eat the same pills too soon. So come with me and give the ATS a look. Since most of the ATS drivers will be old, you actually will raise your status as someone making it earlier in life than those old farts.
On the bright side, now the "Luxury" 328i model is no longer the low man on the totem pole...the 320i is (Oh, I forgot the "no-line") I knew it was somewhere down near the bottom. The high school parking lots will now have lots of BMWs. But, that's not a bad thing at all. Many of those young drivers will be long term owners down the road.
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  #116  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Breaking news: Older, depreciated cars not massively further depreciated when a trim line is introduced on an existing model.
The current F30-328i will be the one to take the resale value hit because of the 320i.
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  #117  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:48 PM
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I cant wait to drive one of these.

6MT with leatherette, Roundel on the hood and RWD for 30k ish?

Dayum...
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  #118  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
After a 320i/328i 4-cyl., why not a FWD 3-series.
A MINI you mean?
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  #119  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeFromPA View Post
Breaking news: Older, depreciated cars not massively further depreciated when a trim line is introduced on an existing model.
The point is that if a 2011 E90 would have a future street price of, say, $16,000, some new college grad would have the option of leasing a brand-new 320i for a paltry $279. That $16,000 would buy him 57 months or practically 5 years in a brand new BMW instead. Not to mention the Ultimate Warranty, two new cars instead of one old one, etc.

BJ
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  #120  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:29 PM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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So much for the 3 series being a status symbol, any schmuck can now drop the daily Starbucks latte and lease one of these instead.
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  #121  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:35 PM
bzcat bzcat is offline
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Some of you are really over thinking this.

The existence of 320i allows BMW to move up the lease entry point on the 328i. Even by as little as $20 or $30 a month... at the volume they are doing, this is a significant profit driver. When you introduce a lower price option on an otherwise established product line, it is usually to signal to the consumers that the new middle priced option is the one they should go for. It's a tried and tested pricing strategy. You slice and dice the current 328i buyers... the ones looking for the stripper model will be very happy with 320i and the one that prefers lots of options will see that 328i still offers a compelling value proposition.

For sure BMW will carefully controlled the availability of 320i to the point so that it doesn't overtake the sale of more profitable 328i.

The end game here is raise the actual residual and/or lower the stated residual on the 328i (i.e. close the residual gap) so BMWFS doesn't have to eat $3,000 on each lease return.
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  #122  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
So much for the 3 series being a status symbol, any schmuck can now drop the daily Starbucks latte and lease one of these instead.
Here in Atlanta BMWs are a dime a dozen. They aint exactly a status symbol.

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Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
Some of you are really over thinking this.

The existence of 320i allows BMW to move up the lease entry point on the 328i. Even by as little as $20 or $30 a month... at the volume they are doing, this is a significant profit driver. When you introduce a lower price option on an otherwise established product line, it is usually to signal to the consumers that the new middle priced option is the one they should go for. It's a tried and tested pricing strategy. You slice and dice the current 328i buyers... the ones looking for the stripper model will be very happy with 320i and the one that prefers lots of options will see that 328i still offers a compelling value proposition.

For sure BMW will carefully controlled the availability of 320i to the point so that it doesn't overtake the sale of more profitable 328i.

The end game here is raise the actual residual and/or lower the stated residual on the 328i (i.e. close the residual gap) so BMWFS doesn't have to eat $3,000 on each lease return.
Good point.
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  #123  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:52 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Your car is worth 30% less than it was this morning. I doubt you can afford the ATS now.

BJ
As others have pointed out, not only is the used car market very hot now, the depreciation is not that bad for a 5 year old than your one year old. Although both of us lease, so any hit will be absorbed by BMWFS.

There is a recent survey of the ATS drivers showing there is a very good chance the average age of the ATS drivers is much lower than that of the F30 drivers. As I said BMW needs to lower the average age of its drivers. Introducing the 320i might help.

Can you imagine an average BMW driver older than a Caddy driver?
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  #124  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
After a 320i/328i 4-cyl., why not a FWD 3-series.
Why not 3 cylinders? Ohhh wait, never mind...
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  #125  
Old 01-14-2013, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Why not 3 cylinders? Ohhh wait, never mind...
Nothing wrong with 3-cylinder cars..... Ford's using the 1,0 litre turbocharged 3-cyl on the Fiesta and Focus (debuting in that order). I drove a VW Polo 1,2 TDI recently and it was fine and dandy as an urban/suburban car. Felt fine humming 3000rpm in 5th @ 160km/h. Returned the equivalent of 57 US mpg and I wasn't even trying or stopping the engine (the Auto Start-Stop is only avail on the BlueMotion model).

I guess it's all perspective and expectations.

Last edited by AzNMpower32; 01-14-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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