Question about Invoice

I am negotiating the price on a new 335is. I managed to get offer it to me at invoice, but the "at invoice" price was AFTER rebates and specials. I wanted them to do invoice THEN subtract the rebates but the dealer said that's not how it works and that he couldn't make any money that way. Is this typically how it's done, and is what he's telling me the truth? I'm pretty certain he could still make money but I'd like to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

He's full of it. Most people here are able to negotiate 500-1000 over invoice BEFORE any rebates are applied. Find a new dealer.

So is the amount the dealer makes based on a percent of the sale after rebates are applied, or before?

Originally Posted by zachoe

So is the amount the dealer makes based on a percent of the sale after rebates are applied, or before?

Before.......research "dealer hold back" and you will find out that even if they sell a new car at invoice, they still make money from BMW.

Originally Posted by xdriver

Before.......research "dealer hold back" and you will find out that even if they sell a new car at invoice, they still make money from BMW.

Good to know... Edmunds says BMW does not have holdbacks, though.

Be sure to negotiate an "out the door" price, rather than a percent of invoice. This way you avoid settling on a price and then getting hit with doc fees, training fees, MACO fees, etc. To do this, determine the price you are willing to pay, add some for tax if appropriate and then tell the dealer that you will pay $X for the car, "out the door" which includes the car, taxes, fees, license, etc. Once you've determined this number, it makes it easy for you to negotiate between dealers as well since it levels the field as they can't offer a lower price for the car and then make it back up with fees.

Originally Posted by zachoe

Good to know... Edmunds says BMW does not have holdbacks, though.

See post #10 from Bimmerfest founder and BMW CA John Shafer in this thread. BMW does not have holdbacks, but they do offer incentives to dealers that allow dealers to make profit on US delivery cars that are sold near invoice.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=668831

I offered $500 over invoice and then asked for incentives to be applied. Here's the response:
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$57560.00 for the car ( that is invoice)
Trade of 10000.00

$47560.00 is the taxable amount

$1426.80 is the tax

$540.95 is the tags and title and doc fee

Total to this point is : $49527.75

$10000.00 down and $2250 in rebates:

Total price out the door: $37277.75.
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Thoughts?

Le Mans Blue
Saddle Brown
Premium
Convenience
Nav
DCT
19" wheels
Harmon Kardon
Heated Seats

MSRP: $62,040

This entire thread belongs in the ask a dealer forum.

Originally Posted by xdriver

Before.......research "dealer hold back" and you will find out that even if they sell a new car at invoice, they still make money from BMW.

Not neccesarily true. Often the dealer is forced to participate in the rebate. The holdback (money that the "make" from BMW) is money that the dealer will get back at the end of the year. On the other hand the dealer is forced to pay "floorplan" expense (interest) on cars that they have in stock over a certain period of time. It is not easy to determine the dealer's actual cost. You will probably need to shop several dealers to determine what a "good price" is.

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

He's full of it. Most people here are able to negotiate 500-1000 over invoice BEFORE any rebates are applied. Find a new dealer.

+1 I smell a stealership.