Just Ditched My RFT 20' OEM Tires!!!

I went from the 20" OEM-RFT's to a set of Nitto Motivo's this last summer. I really like them. They improved the ride without sacrificing performance. They're all-season rated, but I switch over to winter tires on 19" so I don't know how they would perform on snow. Maybe best of all...They come with a 60,000 mile warranty that gives me the piece of mind that they're going to last longer then the 15,000 mile OEM-RFT's and I won't need to buy tires again next summer.

Originally Posted by 11leven

Think I'm the unlucky one.
Changed my 12xd 9kmiles 20" Dunlop to Conti DWS a month ago from a local American tire shop in Bay Area.
Started steering vibration and pulling to right immediately . Went back for a rebalancing which did not help either. After reading some posts here, forced them do road force balancing. this seems to be ok at low speed, but anything above 65mph felt the vibration.
Thought of doing alignment to first rectify the pull, and ended up with east bay BMW dealer who did the alignment with min toe as per my request- but could never let the car go straight- even after 5 trips and equal# of redoing alignments, 3 weeks in their possession two OEM tire change to identify the issue led to replacing control arm to change the camber, counter balancing and a whole lot of other things which i did not understand like negative left numbers to compensate right pull....

May be because I started bugging about the status of the car every day,
they finally concluded(talked me into )new tires are the culprit and asked to swap for a different set. American tire shop did swap for a different DWS set. Even after that nothing changed to pull nor the vibration.
All the numbers from the road force bal shows numbers below the allowable difference i.e less than ~026 inc- so no defect with tires as per tire shop and BMW blaming on tires. I don't understand any of those numbers either and just want to enjoy this 70k beast.
Do you guys see a pattern? Or just plain unlucky with these tires? simply swap for another set or go Mich lat HP's ?

It AIN'T the tires. It's the truck itself but you stated that none of this happened when equipped with the OEM run flats, right? Can't the dealership temporarily mount some run flats and verify their "beliefs"? I would be more than willing to bet that the "left pull" being sync'd with the tire replacement was coincidental.

I'm getting mixed reviews on the DWS... On TireRack reviews they mention that the sidewalls are too soft causing steering response being slower.
Any comments from some of you that already had them for a while?

Originally Posted by Kzang

I'm getting mixed reviews on the DWS... On TireRack reviews they mention that the sidewalls are too soft causing steering response being slower.
Any comments from some of you that already had them for a while?

Complete non-sense & I know tires and SUVs. Guys with the 7-series are running the DWS's and that thing is a BOAT (e.g. Heavy). I had the run flats on this one for the first 200 miles and moved to the DWSs without a single regret. PLENTY of strength in the sidewall for "throwing it" into a corner (if you like). Handles 98% as well as the run flats on dry and 200% better than them in the snow.

Originally Posted by Kzang

I'm getting mixed reviews on the DWS... On TireRack reviews they mention that the sidewalls are too soft causing steering response being slower.
Any comments from some of you that already had them for a while?

Kzang,

Agree with ndabunka Learned everything about the Conti DWS at xbimmers forum. Drove the OEM RFT for about 250 miles then changed to Conti DWS. I know it was only 250 miles, but wife likes the Conti DWS better than the Bridgestone (after 1500 miles). I read most of the reviews about the 20" OEM RFT and decided to order the X5 with a spare tire. As for the Tire Rack reviews for the Conti DWS, most of the reviews are for sedans. I didn't have much options for the 20" and Conti was the only tire maufacturer that have the 60-day customer satisfaction trial and 1 year Road Hazard Warranty. As for the OEM RFT, I'll put them back on 6 months before lease end.

If you decide to purchase Conti DWS, purchase from Sam's Club. For $15 per tire, you get install/balance/flat fix/additional road hazard warranty/tire rotation if all 4 are square for as long as you are a member. Or until the tire warranty runs out.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...660&highlight=


I did the same DWS swap in my 20 inch setup. FANTASTIC SWITCH and FANTASTIC TIRE, I completely agree, it's a different car.

11leven, maybe you got a manufacturer's defect, a bad install/balance, or maybe have an underlying suspension or wheel issue? Whatever the reason, you seem to be the minority experience even across other forums for different brands and models using this same DWS's, generally they are well loved by most! I'm sorry it didn't work out.

Posts 9 and 12 in the above thread talks about my experience in snow so far. If you live in a very rugged area with lots of snow, snow tires are certainly nice (although, I lived on the Canadian border for about 5 years with all seasons and front wheel drive, so I can't say "necessary"). However, for most of us, good all season's are absolutely more then competent.

On another note, I have no spare. So I've elected to add a mobility/repair kit under the floor in the back of the car. Other manufacturer's have eliminated the spare tire and only provide similar mobility kits, so no spare tire is becoming a more and more common occurrence anyway.

47 ft vs. 40 ft vs. 21 ft.

Now, imagine a car stopped at a traffic light 30 ft in front of you on an ice-covered road in the Winter...


P.S. Here's a different comparison on snow, rather than ice, from 30 mph:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=109

61 ft vs. 102 ft

The testing is great, but there's also an element of common sense and safety that you have to exercise in bad weather. I go to parking lots covered in snow/ice and periodically practice stopping distance, loss of traction, etc, so I have some idea what to expect on the roads. Especially at the beginning of the winter, so I can see the difference tire wear has made. Then, I try and stay "that" far away from danger.

The point, if you've put yourself in a position to be 30 feet from a stopped car at a light in the snow/ice traveling 30MPH, YOU SCREWED UP!

And you can't simply say "sometimes it happens" because when the weather is bad it's your job as the operator to do everything you can to make sure it doesn't happen. If you know your car/tires capabilities and take the responsibility to heart, excellent all season tires are more then adequate for most snow and winter conditions.

Originally Posted by clinkinfo

The testing is great, but there's also an element of common sense and safety that you have to exercise in bad weather. I go to parking lots covered in snow/ice and periodically practice stopping distance, loss of traction, etc, so I have some idea what to expect on the roads. Especially at the beginning of the winter, so I can see the difference tire wear has made. Then, I try and stay "that" far away from danger.

The point, if you've put yourself in a position to be 30 feet from a stopped car at a light in the snow/ice traveling 30MPH, YOU SCREWED UP!

And you can't simply say "sometimes it happens" because when the weather is bad it's your job as the operator to do everything you can to make sure it doesn't happen. If you know your car/tires capabilities and take the responsibility to heart, excellent all season tires are more then adequate for most snow and winter conditions.

That is true in some sense. I am more worried about the other drives with there 75k all season ties on a minivan driving too fast while talking on the phone. That is when I want dedicated winters compared to M+S. Then again dedicated season tires vs All season debates will always happen. The ones who cheated tire/rim companies from buying a senseless extra set of tires vs the best performance for both seasons.

ps. I have been running winter/summer sets as long as I can remember and I actually pay less for tires in the long run.

Originally Posted by clinkinfo

The point, if you've put yourself in a position to be 30 feet from a stopped car at a light in the snow/ice traveling 30MPH, YOU SCREWED UP!

Read more carefully what you quoted. There is nothing at all in the quote which implies in any way being 30 ft away from a stopped car at 30 mph.

The first test, from which the quote of being 30 ft away was taken, was done at 10 mph, not 30 mph.

Originally Posted by Penguin

Read more carefully what you quoted. There is nothing at all in the quote which implies in any way being 30 ft away from a stopped car at 30 mph.

The first test, from which the quote of being 30 ft away was taken, was done at 10 mph, not 30 mph.

I didn't say it did. The hypothetical 30 foot example provided was obviously IMPLYING you can't stop in time without winter tires. My point, don't be 30 feet away and unable to stop if you need 42 (at whatever speed or conditions you choose). Problem solved.

Originally Posted by MRV99

That is true in some sense. I am more worried about the other drives with there 75k all season ties on a minivan driving too fast while talking on the phone. That is when I want dedicated winters compared to M+S. Then again dedicated season tires vs All season debates will always happen. The ones who cheated tire/rim companies from buying a senseless extra set of tires vs the best performance for both seasons.

ps. I have been running winter/summer sets as long as I can remember and I actually pay less for tires in the long run.

No question, other drivers and situational awareness of their locations and control (or lack of) is important.

And I respect your choice to run dedicated seasonal tires, certainly there's nothing wrong with that. I think those of us who choose to run all seasons get a little tired of hearing how we are doing something wrong, despite many of us having no issues whatsoever with all season performance. It tends to feel like less of a debate, and more of a "talking to".

Originally Posted by clinkinfo

I didn't say it did.

I said, and you quoted: "Now, imagine a car stopped at a traffic light 30 ft in front of you on an ice-covered road in the Winter."

You replied, "The point, if you've put yourself in a position to be 30 feet from a stopped car at a light in the snow/ice traveling 30MPH, YOU SCREWED UP!""

Now, where did I ever get the idea you were referring to my scenario....


But I would agree, and expand upon your comment. Forget the ice and snow, f you've put yourself in a position to be 30 feet from a stopped car at a light in any road conditions traveling 30MPH you screwed-up, as a vehicle travels about 45 feet in one second at 30 MPH. Under your 30 MPH scenario, it won't matter what tires you have on the vehicle.

Originally Posted by RockChips

Whats the deal with people having dedicated winter tires? I never did this.

As others have noted, you are much safer driving in winter conditions on dedicated winter tires. What most folks fail to realize is that you also will SAVE MONEY.

If you are put more than 30,000 miles on a vehicle before you dispose of it, you will need to replace tires at least once. For most folks, this means buying a second set of All Seasons to replace the ones that came on the car at delivery. But as Dunderhi noted, A/S tires are by definition a compromise. They are "acceptable" in a wide range of conditions, but excel at none.

Instead of buying a second set of A/S tires when the OE tires need replacing, many of us buy a set of dedicated winter tires, putting them on the car every November, and taking them off every April. This is no more expensive than buying that second set of A/S tires, and you will optimize your braking and cornering (i.e. your safety) on snow and ice.

The best set-up is to mount the winter tires on a dedicated set of winter wheels. This avoids the cost of mounting and balancing 2x/year when you change over, and gives you an honest-to-goodness full size spare when you need one. And when you are done with the car, you can throw the winter wheels on Craigslist or the BMWCCA classifieds and get back half what you paid for them.

Now if you routinely get 50,000 miles out of a set of OE tires and never need to replace them before you return the car, the financial side of my argument is moot.

Originally Posted by quackbury

As others have noted, you are much safer driving in winter conditions on dedicated winter tires. What most folks fail to realize is that you also will SAVE MONEY.

If you are put more than 30,000 miles on a vehicle before you dispose of it, you will need to replace tires at least once. For most folks, this means buying a second set of All Seasons to replace the ones that came on the car at delivery. But as Dunderhi noted, A/S tires are by definition a compromise. They are "acceptable" in a wide range of conditions, but excel at none.

Instead of buying a second set of A/S tires when the OE tires need replacing, many of us buy a set of dedicated winter tires, putting them on the car every November, and taking them off every April. This is no more expensive than buying that second set of A/S tires, and you will optimize your braking and cornering (i.e. your safety) on snow and ice.

The best set-up is to mount the winter tires on a dedicated set of winter wheels. This avoids the cost of mounting and balancing 2x/year when you change over, and gives you an honest-to-goodness full size spare when you need one. And when you are done with the car, you can throw the winter wheels on Craigslist or the BMWCCA classifieds and get back half what you paid for them.

summers get about 15-20K miles
550/545 Winter setup: Clean 18" OEM rims 800(used), rubber 1000, TPMS (245), M/B 60 = $2150. 5 seasons out of them, sold for 1000.00. Total winter cost 1150.

E53 Rims OEM 18" (550), rubber (800), M/B (60) = $1450 4 seasons sold for $800.00 total winter cost $650