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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:58 PM
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alewifebp alewifebp is offline
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They had plenty of 318's sold back in the day. I drove one pretty extensively, and it was slooooow.

Those that want a tighter, lighter BMW can purchase a 1.
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  #27  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:49 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodonx View Post
To be honest, I am not too worried about the 180 hp. What I am worried is where BMW is heading. Softer car, no lightweight technology, worse handling, no soul.

Remember E90 320si. That is one exciting car even with 173 hp.
I think you have to remember that every car company is bringing out the smaller engines in order to get their overall MPG numbers down. Many of these cars/engines are offered in Europe and sell reasonably well. It all depends on what you need.

I wouldn't worry too much.
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  #28  
Old 01-16-2013, 08:44 AM
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1985mb 1985mb is offline
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Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
You don't have to convince me that government regs have changed - I know an enormous amount about cars and the regulations they are facing. But that is NOT what is causing BMW to change the dynamics of their cars. First of all, every manufacturer is faced with the same challenges. But horsepower and fuel economy are both getting better - not worse. I get that manufacturers are going to more fuel efficient engines - but performance across the board is getting better, not worse. Hell, cars are not even getting heavier because manufacturers are using more light weight materials and better structural engineering.

Honestly I'm not even sure what your point is. BMW is clearly going a different direction with their cars (at least leaning a little further to the right). Read the comparison tests between the 2013 Lexus GS350 and the BMW 535. Lexus is up against the same government regulations, but that car is now the benchmark for handling and overall driving dynamics in it's class.

BTW, I'll repeat that I'm not knocking BMW. I traded a 2010 Lexus for my 550 and have no regrets. I just don't think you can make a case that government regulations are the issue beyond the fact that they are now offering a smaller, more fuel efficient engine. But that has not been your point all along as best as I can tell.
My point was that BMW's entry level offerings have always been underpowered on paper. Wasn't so long ago that BMW's I6s were making 170-180-190 hp. People could point to any number of Toyota, Honda, Acura, Subaru, Mistubishi, etc. products as being more powerful (for less money).

This isn't anything new. This isn't a sell out.

The "It ain't an E36 any more" lament is just pointless. Nobody is making an E30/36 any more. Nobody, not BMW, not any other OEM. Might as well lament nobody making Elans any more.

Not to mention calling a 2013 F30 320i "BMW Selling Out" is ludicrous when you have had, just to name a few examples, BMW producing the following cars just to add volume (and make some more money):
  1. The Isetta...and then Rover
  2. 318i and 318Ti compact
  3. 528e and other eta/efficiency models
  4. X5 and every other X SUV/people carrier that followed
  5. A 5 series (F10) platform that is by all accounts no longer the driving benchmark in its class (first time ever)
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  #29  
Old 01-16-2013, 12:48 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1985mb View Post
My point was that BMW's entry level offerings have always been underpowered on paper. Wasn't so long ago that BMW's I6s were making 170-180-190 hp. People could point to any number of Toyota, Honda, Acura, Subaru, Mistubishi, etc. products as being more powerful (for less money).

This isn't anything new. This isn't a sell out.

The "It ain't an E36 any more" lament is just pointless. Nobody is making an E30/36 any more. Nobody, not BMW, not any other OEM. Might as well lament nobody making Elans any more.

Not to mention calling a 2013 F30 320i "BMW Selling Out" is ludicrous when you have had, just to name a few examples, BMW producing the following cars just to add volume (and make some more money):
  1. The Isetta...and then Rover
  2. 318i and 318Ti compact
  3. 528e and other eta/efficiency models
  4. X5 and every other X SUV/people carrier that followed
  5. A 5 series (F10) platform that is by all accounts no longer the driving benchmark in its class (first time ever)
Somewhere along the line I think you have confused my response with somebody else's. I've never said BMW is selling out, and I have never said that anyone is or isn't making cars like they did in the past. My only point is that they are doing it for marketing reasons, not because of any sort of government regulations.

What you are saying here is a whole different discussion.
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  #30  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:00 AM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
Somewhere along the line I think you have confused my response with somebody else's. I've never said BMW is selling out, and I have never said that anyone is or isn't making cars like they did in the past. My only point is that they are doing it for marketing reasons, not because of any sort of government regulations.
I will agree with this. I just want to add that the answer is not "go buy 1 series" (even though it is true at least when talking about current 1 series coupe - awesome car). I believe there might be a very good chance in near future that we will be able to buy a "true" BMW again under the Triumph (or some other) nameplate. Not BMW anymore, that ship has sailed quite some time ago.

However, in order for Triumph (or other) to exist, BMW has to have a large number of mass (and, by definition, mediocre) product that people buy covering all sectors of the market. As soon as "i" series establishes itself on the market and 1 series switches to FWD platform, we can expect an outlier to come out, whatever that is. All told, we are talking around 2017. Not really that far into the future.
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