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Originally Posted by dtc100

Toning it down is not a surprise, to young people or not, the CTS style is too edgy. Toning it down for the Chinese? Really? Just say you don't like the style, but don't stretch it.

The CTS and it's "origami" form factor has been around since 2007, very long in the tooth.

The ATS shouldn't have cloned this old design. Instead, should have broken new ground as the very first car of the new Cadillac design language. GM blew that opportunity, played it safe, it looks like a brand new old car which is the antithesis of what the younger crowd is looking for.

Good idea, lots of market share to borrow from others, but really bad execution.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Stats.

BJ

Yeah, after two months and when their volume model 2.0T did not even start production. Why don't you look at the Dec 2011 column? ATS was really dead there you know.

Yay, i get to be a big boy in my 328i now... But very aggressive and savy business move by BMW though. I don't see why this should bother anyone.

Originally Posted by Chris90

Cadillac has a tough job. If you told me I had to compete against the 3 series, as well as the A4/S4, the C class, plus all the Japanese, I’d be looking for a new job. They want to market the car for young people, but they toned down the styling to to the state of blandness, to avoid offending Chinese buyers. Then they set the pricing as high as BMW. I mean who, really, is going to buy this car? It doesn’t have the beautiful design of BMW, Audi or MB, nor does it have the great reputation of Lexus or Infiniti. Nor is it a bang for the buck bargain like Infiniti or Acura.

Outside of old Americans who grew up driving muscle cars, I don't really see who would ever buy a Caddy.

Case in point, this thread.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=638056

I actually like the ATS, and I really like the CTS coupe, and I really really like the V models.

Only problem for GM is that I prefer BMWs.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Yeah, after two months and when their volume model 2.0T did not even start production. Why don't you look at the Dec 2011 column? ATS was really dead there you know.

They had a ton of TV commercials, must have been 3x what the nearest competitor spent, print ads, front covers of all the major auto mags, still couldn't sell 3,000 units. Not saying that they were in great inventory shape, but please, that's not very good.

BJ

Originally Posted by krash

I actually like the ATS, and I really like the CTS coupe, and I really really like the V models.

Only problem for GM is that I prefer BMWs.

I can see someone in a Buick or a Ford who could aspire to be in a Cadillac. Blue collar, born-in-the-USA types, middle America.

But I can't see any BMW owner stepping down to a Cadillac, and for what? Just to save a few dollars and wind up in a baby CTS? Doesn't make sense for us. Wrong customers, wrong forum.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I can see someone in a Buick or a Ford who could aspire to be in a Cadillac. Blue collar, born-in-the-USA types, middle America.

But I can't see any BMW owner stepping down to a Cadillac, and for what? Just to save a few dollars and wind up in a baby CTS? Doesn't make sense for us. Wrong customers, wrong forum.

BJ

Yeah, I'm not saying I'd ever get one. I definitely prefer BMWs, no doubt. But I appreciate their products. They have actually turned things around quite a bit. You gotta admit, it wasn't too long ago when Cadillac wouldn't even be mentioned on a BMW forum. Now there are threads and threads talking about the ATS vs the 3. The fact that we're even having this conversation on the 'fest is testimonial to their progress. They're in the ballpark.

And the fact that so many posters here seem to be so threatened by the ATS and are so determined to denigrated it tells me that Cadillac is onto something.

CA

Originally Posted by krash

Yeah, I'm not saying I'd ever get one. I definitely prefer BMWs, no doubt. But I appreciate their products. They have actually turned things around quite a bit. You gotta admit, it wasn't too long ago when Cadillac wouldn't even be mentioned on a BMW forum. Now there are threads and threads talking about the ATS vs the 3. The fact that we're even having this conversation on the 'fest is testimonial to their progress. They're in the ballpark.

It's called a Guerrilla Marketing Campaign. You target a forum, you grease a poster, he posts repetitively, can be very effective.

It's the first new RWD car in this class in how many years? That's the problem with the ATS. It's designed to be "in the conversation". It's not designed for customers. It's a marketing project, not a great vehicle. If it were, it would be selling. We've been talking about this ridiculous Caddy for over a year, still not a single person is actually driving one or thinking of buying one. We had one person say he took a test drive and wasn't blown away, that's it. That's the sum total of thousands of posts on that ridiculous car.

BJ

Originally Posted by captainaudio

And the fact that so many posters here seem to be so threatened by the ATS and are so determined to denigrated it tells me that Cadillac is onto something.

CA

No, actually, we're just annoyed by the same poster who keeps bumping his ATS threads over and over again. It's not a car that anyone cares about. It has great entertainment value, for like an hour, and then it gets stale and we move on until Mr. Bump starts the loop all over again.

BJ

Originally Posted by captainaudio

And the fact that so many posters here seem to be so threatened by the ATS and are so determined to denigrated it tells me that Cadillac is onto something.

CA

To be fair, few posters here feel threatened by the ATS, maybe just one. But I can see how he kept saying we, we, we, or 98%, 2%, can give you that impression.

ive driven alotta caddies sure their nice but they are no.BMW

Sent from my XT557 using Bimmer App

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

It's not designed for customers. It's a marketing project, not a great vehicle.

BJ

This is what I keep telling a co-worker of mine about his stupid Toyota Prius. Actually, this is only a fraction of what I keep telling him...

Originally Posted by SamS

The F80 M3 won't even have the S65 V8 going for it, it'll be just another anonymous turbo I6.

While I find that disappointing as well, everyone has turbo V6s, who besides BMW has turbo inline sixes, Volvo S60? Anything else?

My point was, the CTS-V is special cause of that V8.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

It's called a Guerrilla Marketing Campaign. You target a forum, you grease a poster, he posts repetitively, can be very effective.

It's the first new RWD car in this class in how many years? That's the problem with the ATS. It's designed to be "in the conversation". It's not designed for customers. It's a marketing project, not a great vehicle. If it were, it would be selling. We've been talking about this ridiculous Caddy for over a year, still not a single person is actually driving one or thinking of buying one. We had one person say he took a test drive and wasn't blown away, that's it. That's the sum total of thousands of posts on that ridiculous car.

BJ

Does this statement resemble anyone else who constantly posts in this forum and this thread?

Originally Posted by dtc100

Toning it down is not a surprise, to young people or not, the CTS style is too edgy. Toning it down for the Chinese? Really? Just say you don't like the style, but don't stretch it.

Yeah, heard that a lot, that the ATS styling was toned down for China.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11211085...esign---report

Cadillac planning to tone-down its design - report

Hopes to increase its appeal in China

Cadillac's Art & Science design philosophy has been a hallmark of the brand ever since the CTS was introduced a decade ago, but a new report is indicating the company will soften its sharp lines and creases to appeal to a broader global audience - most notably China.

Reuters says the brand's distinctive styling is a turnoff in the People's Republic because of cultural leaning towards curvier designs such as those offered by Audi, BMW and Mercedes. This apparently ties into a Confucian concept that stresses harmony with smooth lines and soft curves.

Cadillac seems to agree as the brand's Chinese sales and marketing chief, Kevin Chen, has confirmed many buyers dislike the company's styling because it is too "bold" and "futuristic." This puts Cadillac in an awkward position because Chen said "If you ask our customers what's the motivation for choosing Cadillac, they would say design. If you ask Audi buyers why they don't choose Cadillac, they'd say it's too bold."

Despite this, Chen confirmed the brand will gravitate towards a "modern contemporary design" which will likely be more conservative.

Originally Posted by krash

This is what I keep telling a co-worker of mine about his stupid Toyota Prius...

Are you trying to help BJ with Prius as an example? The success of Prius is any car manufacture's wet dream. The fact we don't care for it is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Are you trying to help BJ with Prius as an example? The success of Prius is any car manufacture's wet dream. The fact we don't care for it is irrelevant.

I love how Prius owners glare at me when I'm driving my Suburban or Tahoe. I think I'll start asking them what green plan they have for disposing their batteries when the time comes.

Originally Posted by beden1

Does this statement resemble anyone else who constantly posts in this forum and this thread?

I am now curious how much grease BJ has on him and by who?

Originally Posted by dtc100

I am now curious how much grease BJ has on him and by who?

It does seem to be like a paid advertisement.

Originally Posted by beden1

I love how Prius owners glare at me when I'm driving my Suburban or Tahoe. I think I'll start asking them what green plan they have for disposing their batteries when time comes.

Many Prius drivers are in it so they don't have to spend much on gas, not for the environment. It is a legit goal. Prius also has very high resale value. BJ should have been driving a Prius, if he is true to his finance discipline.

Originally Posted by Chris90

Yeah, heard that a lot, that the ATS styling was toned down for China.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11211085...esign---report

Of course they like to say that. But Cadillac is really for the US market. Curve it up like an Audi is not going to help sell it in China. The XTS has a better chance.

I personally am not crazy about the ATS styling either, I agree it should be more aggressive, but not hard-edged aggressive.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Many Prius drivers are in it so they don't have to spend much on gas, not for the environment. It is a legit goal. Prius also has very high resale value. BJ should have been driving a Prius, if he is true to his finance discipline.

Yeah, I was just trying to change the subject, and wish I didn't even post that now. But I like a Prius about the same BJ likes the ATS.

Originally Posted by beden1

Does this statement resemble anyone else who constantly posts in this forum and this thread?

Currently 48 posts in this thread out of 350 or so.