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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:46 PM
fryntyr fryntyr is offline
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Mein Auto: 1991 BMW 525I
91 2.5l no vanos engine into a 95 single vanos

Has anybody put a 91 2.5l in place of later (95) 2.5l single vanos engine?

Will the computer work with it if so?

I have been told the trans is different as well, can I trnasplant both into the 95 and still work with the existing ECM.

Our 91 525I M50 was totaled with 124K miles and I can purchase a 95 525Iwith over 200k with a bad cylinder so Engine needs changed. The 95 has a rebuilt head on it as it was bad. The prior owner left it sitting for almost a year with water in the cylinder. The present owner said it had some pitting and but replaced the head anyways and has been running it as is. The bad cylinder has 70lbs of compression. This is why I'm thinking if I purchase it I can drop our good running motor out of our 91 in it.

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:54 PM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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If you have the car just swap everyrhing over...

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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #3  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:41 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Hmmm ........ I wonder if the EWS will cause a problem .... ????

If the 95 DME will not work with the non-vanos engine, then will have to do the EWS delete, but will the 413 red label DME (which is for vanos engines) work ?
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Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #4  
Old 01-14-2013, 08:32 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Hi there,

Read your post about the transplant questions.

Based on what you said, this is what I would do.

1. Keep the 95 vanos cylinder head. It has been remachined, which means it is better than your current 91 NV one.

2. Swop in the 91 NV block alone into the new car. The two blocks are the same. The 95 Vanos block has a bad cylinder...I am guessing that it will be too difficult/expensive to fix that and a block swop would be easier.

3. Swop in the 91 NV's exhaust cam into the 95 vanos head, the NV exhaust's lift and duration is greater, and the exhaust cams are cross compatible.

Here are some hard figures :

Motor.........IC/L.................EC/L

M50NV........240/8.8L..............228/9.7L
M50TU........228/9.0L..............228/9.0L
M52............228/9.0L..............228/9.0L
S50............252/9.3L..............244/9.5L
S52 (US M3)....252/10.2L.............244/10.2L

TU = Vanos.

4. Sell off your good NV cylinder head. The camshafts are not necessary. There will definitely be someone who wants to buy it eventually, but it might take you around 1 year to sell it off. Sell it for $500 + ground shipping, most workshops sell these for around $800. Or for a fast job goto BMW indy bmw workshops and offer to give it to them for $400, a clean $400 profit for them on parts for their next customer.

OR

5. Keep the cylinder head. If you ever run into trouble on your new car and need a new head, you can swop it in along with the vanos unit from the Vanos head. Or you can keep it, and sell if off independently if you ever sell of your current car.

6. Ideally, while doing all of this, rebuild your vanos unit with upgraded teflon seals. It will cost you $80 total or thereabouts, from Beisan systems. The vanos unit eventually gives trouble and causes rattling sounds etc and that's because the stock seals did not last for long mileages. The actual repair itself only takes 30 minutes and does not require an expert at all. Do this if you intend to keep your car for the long term.

7. If you stick to vanos, you'll have no trouble from your transmission due to compatibility issues. When it comes to old cars, less work is generally more peace as well.

8. Actually, I can't remember if its better to swop in the NV intake cam or the NV exhaust cam with your Vanos exhaust cam. Please do some research on this if you are keen, and if you find good links, do post them up here as well.

9. If you don't want to do all of this, then the 91 NV motor will work fine in the 95 Vanos car. You'll have to keep discard the vanos ecu (can be sold off) and retain the NV ecu. This will mean that you'll have to do the EWS delete/bypass procedure (search the forums), as the 95 car is equipped with an immobiliser system called EWS2 that synchs with the ecu and will not start if it sees a different ecu or a different key so all of that will need to be bypassed. Its a simple mod, takes people 30-45 minutes if they wish to be very careful.

You will also need to do some rewiring from the afm and possibly O2 sensors to the ecu. The two afms might be different and have different numbers of wires emanating from them. You'll have to google for something called the electrical troubleshooting manual for E34s to check out the various wiring diagrams and decide what can be done and how.

Good luck.



Roberto GS
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2013, 05:25 PM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Location: SW Mountains
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 980
Mein Auto: GTI
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
Hi there,

Read your post about the transplant questions.

Based on what you said, this is what I would do.

1. Keep the 95 vanos cylinder head. It has been remachined, which means it is better than your current 91 NV one.

2. Swop in the 91 NV block alone into the new car. The two blocks are the same. The 95 Vanos block has a bad cylinder...I am guessing that it will be too difficult/expensive to fix that and a block swop would be easier.

3. Swop in the 91 NV's exhaust cam into the 95 vanos head, the NV exhaust's lift and duration is greater, and the exhaust cams are cross compatible.

Here are some hard figures :

Motor.........IC/L.................EC/L

M50NV........240/8.8L..............228/9.7L
M50TU........228/9.0L..............228/9.0L
M52............228/9.0L..............228/9.0L
S50............252/9.3L..............244/9.5L
S52 (US M3)....252/10.2L.............244/10.2L

TU = Vanos.

4. Sell off your good NV cylinder head. The camshafts are not necessary. There will definitely be someone who wants to buy it eventually, but it might take you around 1 year to sell it off. Sell it for $500 + ground shipping, most workshops sell these for around $800. Or for a fast job goto BMW indy bmw workshops and offer to give it to them for $400, a clean $400 profit for them on parts for their next customer.

OR

5. Keep the cylinder head. If you ever run into trouble on your new car and need a new head, you can swop it in along with the vanos unit from the Vanos head. Or you can keep it, and sell if off independently if you ever sell of your current car.

6. Ideally, while doing all of this, rebuild your vanos unit with upgraded teflon seals. It will cost you $80 total or thereabouts, from Beisan systems. The vanos unit eventually gives trouble and causes rattling sounds etc and that's because the stock seals did not last for long mileages. The actual repair itself only takes 30 minutes and does not require an expert at all. Do this if you intend to keep your car for the long term.

7. If you stick to vanos, you'll have no trouble from your transmission due to compatibility issues. When it comes to old cars, less work is generally more peace as well.

8. Actually, I can't remember if its better to swop in the NV intake cam or the NV exhaust cam with your Vanos exhaust cam. Please do some research on this if you are keen, and if you find good links, do post them up here as well.

9. If you don't want to do all of this, then the 91 NV motor will work fine in the 95 Vanos car. You'll have to keep discard the vanos ecu (can be sold off) and retain the NV ecu. This will mean that you'll have to do the EWS delete/bypass procedure (search the forums), as the 95 car is equipped with an immobiliser system called EWS2 that synchs with the ecu and will not start if it sees a different ecu or a different key so all of that will need to be bypassed. Its a simple mod, takes people 30-45 minutes if they wish to be very careful.

You will also need to do some rewiring from the afm and possibly O2 sensors to the ecu. The two afms might be different and have different numbers of wires emanating from them. You'll have to google for something called the electrical troubleshooting manual for E34s to check out the various wiring diagrams and decide what can be done and how.

Good luck.



Roberto GS

And just for the record, how many swaps like this have you performed? I think this is extremely important when wanting to give such in depth advice. I want to know how much experience you have before taking your advice, the OP should be very concernd about this.
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  #6  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:26 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
And just for the record, how many swaps like this have you performed? I think this is extremely important when wanting to give such in depth advice. I want to know how much experience you have before taking your advice, the OP should be very concernd about this.
My mechanics have done this before. Basically, people do this if they cannot get their hands on M3 cams in time.

Google for m3 camshaft upgrade m50b25 or words to that effect. You'll find the NV cam swop discussed there. Everyone says you can You can even pm those who have done those DIYs if you need clarifications. The rest will be according to the limits of your native intelligence (or that of your mechanics).
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  #7  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:08 AM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Location: SW Mountains
 
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Mein Auto: GTI
Your mechanics... in other words... you have ZERO experience with this.

That should preface every post you make...
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'92 535i/5 '89 325ix/5
'98 750iL '86 325(e)/5
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  #8  
Old 01-15-2013, 05:59 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
Your mechanics... in other words... you have ZERO experience with this.

That should preface every post you make...
Response 1 : Nobody with any brains is going to strip their engine on the basis of one post by anyone, and will do mpre research both online and offline, unless they already have sufficient background to connect the dots themselves once they encounter a new idea.

Response 2 : Some of us possess the gift of recognising the obvious when they encounter it conceptually or observe others in action. The extreme example of this would of course be Tesla, who is reputed to have designed machines to completion in his head before putting pen to paper on the first blueprint which was then handed to engineers to fabricate. In over 30 years, his first prototype worked flawlessly on the first run.

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 01-15-2013 at 06:00 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-15-2013, 06:52 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Roberto, nothing in your ludicrous post pertains to OPs question. He is not concerned with hot cams or building a motor. He has two separate cars and wants to know what from one can go in the other.
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2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #10  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:32 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
Roberto, nothing in your ludicrous post pertains to OPs question. He is not concerned with hot cams or building a motor. He has two separate cars and wants to know what from one can go in the other.
The OP's basic questions had already been answered by others. I was merely unlocking value in his current assets, a concept that I'm sure you're familiar with being on wall street.

It would be ludicrous instead to expect him to wait to ask a question about something he likely knows too little to even conceive of the question.
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  #11  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:50 AM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
The OP's basic questions had already been answered by others. I was merely unlocking value in his current assets, a concept that I'm sure you're familiar with being on wall street.

It would be ludicrous instead to expect him to wait to ask a question about something he likely knows too little to even conceive of the question.
I have absolutely nothing to do with wall street. You assume my occupation. you assume my car's maintenance. you assume members' mechanical prowess. you assume future questions. Just stop. Anser the posed question. My job has nothing to dowith whther or not a NV M50 will swap into a factory VANOS car.
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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #12  
Old 01-15-2013, 11:19 AM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
I have absolutely nothing to do with wall street. You assume my occupation. you assume my car's maintenance. you assume members' mechanical prowess. you assume future questions. Just stop. Anser the posed question. My job has nothing to dowith whther or not a NV M50 will swap into a factory VANOS car.
Alright, I apologise for assuming that you're on wall street. I assumed as such because you're a finance graduate and being the padre, would naturally be drafted into the top echelons of an appropriate company. I apologise for invoking thinking that is natural to your domain's expertise and translating it to analogous situations elsewhere.

And do tell me how I can answer people's questions after you've become a moderator. I'll be all ears. Until then, I'll consider it a reasonable assumption that people who are considering swopping engines, wirings, trannys, and the like, would likely possess or have access to the basic competence to consider things like cam swops.


cheers,
Roberto GS
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2013, 08:17 PM
MySatinDoll MySatinDoll is offline
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Mein Auto: 1995 e34 S52b32/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
Alright, I apologise for assuming that you're on wall street. I assumed as such because you're a finance graduate and being the padre, would naturally be drafted into the top echelons of an appropriate company. I apologise for invoking thinking that is natural to your domain's expertise and translating it to analogous situations elsewhere.

And do tell me how I can answer people's questions after you've become a moderator. I'll be all ears. Until then, I'll consider it a reasonable assumption that people who are considering swopping engines, wirings, trannys, and the like, would likely possess or have access to the basic competence to consider things like cam swops.


cheers,
Roberto GS
You know... when I don't have anything constructive or helpful to say I usually shut my mouth or interject a joke just to keep things lively.

There's another person just like you on another forum. Only difference between you and he is that he's way more knowledgable than you. So regardless how people feel about him he still is respected. You on the other hand sound like a real douche-ka-bob. (no pun intended)

So unless your time here is one big joke. Walk away gracefully.
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95 e34 525 5 spd S52 Swap... The new Garden State Grocery Getter projekt.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:40 PM
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Monsignor Monsignor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MySatinDoll View Post
You know... when I don't have anything constructive or helpful to say I usually shut my mouth or interject a joke just to keep things lively.

There's another person just like you on another forum. Only difference between you and he is that he's way more knowledgable than you. So regardless how people feel about him he still is respected. You on the other hand sound like a real douche-ka-bob. (no pun intended)

So unless your time here is one big joke. Walk away gracefully.
Escorted* away gracefully

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1995 525iA 250k mi
2006 325i/6 57k mi
2003 350Z 88k mi

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  #15  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:27 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
Escorted* away gracefully

Sent from Joe's Galaxy Tab 2 via BimmerApp
He had a self-fulfilling prophecy when he told another member here about the little "give a man enough rope and he will hang himself". I knew it was coming. He had morphed into the quintessential troll.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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