Thrust arm ball joint stuck. Help!

ok, so last post on this. I got under the cat today, and checked the LCA and the whole tie rod assembly. The center tie rod, and pitman arm/idler arm are rock solid, the outer tie rods are completely gone. I took a quick video of the LCA's and how little they move. If I can avoid replacing a perfectly good part, my wallet will be very happy. Let me know what you think and if its worth it to replace them. Thanks in advance

Originally Posted by snowsled7

Do the inners and outers as a unit. Doing the uppers without the lowers and still having a problem should have been a lesson When you go to do this job, at a minimum, I would do uppers and lowers (control arms). If you are going to do tie rods, the inner and outers are the minimum. The idler arm, pitman arm and swaybar links completing a lower front end rebuild. Then you have the shock cartridges and upper strut mounts. On a 20 year old car, if you want it to drive as intented, this is the list you will have to work through. Welcome to BMW

This^^^^^^

I'm going to throw this out there because I noticed your geographical location.
Because your in New York City home of VW size Potholes.
If everything seems to be up to snuff.
Check and make sure you don't have a slight bend in one or more wheels. Also if you have larger, and/ or aftermarket wheels make sure you have hubcentric rings on your hubs.

Anyway... I haven't done this job since the summer. But Sled is spot on.( I used a old oem model fork too )

If the vibrations haven't stopped. Do the upper Control arms (I think you mentioned doing the LCAs already if not do those too)
Then progress to the tie rods,idler arm, pitman arm, sway links, and strut mounts.

I know how pocket change can get tight. But it is very possible that the front end needs attention if your not the original owner.
Doesn't mean you have a POS. It's a 20+yr old car. And unless otherwise spent a good amount of time in NYC.
It's an expected expense.

As well don't cheap out on your suspension parts.

Good Luck. If you were closer I'd give you an hand.

Originally Posted by MySatinDoll

This^^^^^^

I'm going to throw this out there because I noticed your geographical location.
Because your in New York City home of VW size Potholes.
If everything seems to be up to snuff.
Check and make sure you don't have a slight bend in one or more wheels. Also if you have larger, and/ or aftermarket wheels make sure you have hubcentric rings on your hubs.

Anyway... I haven't done this job since the summer. But Sled is spot on.( I used a old oem model fork too )

If the vibrations haven't stopped. Do the upper Control arms (I think you mentioned doing the LCAs already if not do those too)
Then progress to the tie rods,idler arm, pitman arm, sway links, and strut mounts.

I know how pocket change can get tight. But it is very possible that the front end needs attention if your not the original owner.
Doesn't mean you have a POS. It's a 20+yr old car. And unless otherwise spent a good amount of time in NYC.
It's an expected expense.

As well don't cheap out on your suspension parts.

Good Luck. If you were closer I'd give you an hand.

Thanks I could definitely use the help , I did the UCA's already but that only mitigated the shaking. I'll be doing the LCA's and tie rods this weekend. If that doesnt help I think I'm going to just get a new car

You are almost there Don't give up yet.

You didn't really think you were getting a BMW for a Toyota price did you? Next to watch, the cooling system Hopefully it is a manual trans or the auto is another thing to worry about

Good Luck

Originally Posted by Kain23

Thanks I could definitely use the help , I did the UCA's already but that only mitigated the shaking. I'll be doing the LCA's and tie rods this weekend. If that doesnt help I think I'm going to just get a new car

I'd stroll out to Queens and lend a hand.
Unfortunately the wife has other plans for me this weekend.

Which side of queens? Belt parkway, whitestone or 59th st bridge?

Originally Posted by snowsled7

Next to watch, the cooling system

Oh God... so true. but at least he has a updated Hvac system.
No searching looking for reliable final stage fan swords.
(one issue I deal with that makes me fly off the handle.)

Just let liquid wrench set all night. I used an old pickle fork between the thrust control arm and the steering knuckle, moved up the strut as far as it would go, and rapped the ball joint bolt the the nut on it with a long chisel and it popped loose

UPDATE: replaced tie rods, LCA, and end links, took car for an alignment and she still shaking when I brake. I am at a loss as to whats still wrong, and now i have a weird intermittent clunk somewhere. The BMW gods are not smiling on me.

dude, maybe this will make you feel better, probably not, but, its the Upper control arms that would affect the shaking, much more so than the LCAs...

Why didnt you do all 4?

Did the alignment shop have any suggestions?

So lets go back to brake rotors and tires... How long since new rotors, did you buy quality parts when you did the work?

Old tires can get wonky though usually you would feel this all of the time.

Shocks, upper strut mounts?

Wheel bearings usually start with a whump whump whump rythmic sound. Often when slowing because wieght is transfered forward. If they are really loose, shaking is definately possible. Jack up one front at a time and see if there is play when you try to move the wheel around, up/down, side to side.

snowsled, please read my post above^

He did the uppers by themselves intially, so all four are now new. (post #28)

Not sure what the problem is... cheap parts? Improper installatin of cheap uppers could definately be an issue...

Always hard to tell when you aren't there

Originally Posted by snowsled7

Did the alignment shop have any suggestions?

So lets go back to brake rotors and tires... How long since new rotors, did you buy quality parts when you did the work?

Old tires can get wonky though usually you would feel this all of the time.

Shocks, upper strut mounts?

Wheel bearings usually start with a whump whump whump rythmic sound. Often when slowing because wieght is transfered forward. If they are really loose, shaking is definately possible. Jack up one front at a time and see if there is play when you try to move the wheel around, up/down, side to side.

Did all work myself, used Meyle HD for everything. The tires have 5k miles on them, pads rotors are new. Wheels were balanced before the alignment. The only thing I did not do was shocks since they were done around 20k miles ago and are not showing any leaks or signs of wear. I thought of bearings but, I checked play and everything was good. the noise is more of a metallic clunk. Im going to go back and re-torque all the bolts just in case I missed something. Other than that I am at a loss.

One possibility is still brakes. Many times shaking isn't from a warped rotor but from pad transfer to the rotor creating a sticky spot. City driving can do this. Heavy braking from speed to a stop where you are at a dead stop with hot brakes for a couple of minutes.

When coming off hot laps at the track, the practice was to roll to a stop without applying the brakes. This keeps the pads off the rotors avoiding hot spots. Not much you can do in the real world, rolling to a stop isn't usually an option.

You could try having the rotors turned IF you can find a shop with a GOOD brake lathe and competant operator. Check with the guys in your local BMW club?

I think that that is a long shot. I only had that after my car sat for 6 months. Some seriously heavy braking fixed it.

I would look more towards shocks and mounts. OP take a picture of your strut mount fron the top side (under the hood). This could be worn in addition to a bad shock which could cause the clunking sound (my E28 has this problem).

The shaking could be an issue of the ball joint in the mount. It turns when the wheel turns thanks to the MacPhearson style asembly. If it is worn, the wheel can wiggle...

Originally Posted by Monsignor

I think that that is a long shot. I only had that after my car sat for 6 months. Some seriously heavy braking fixed it.

I would look more towards shocks and mounts. OP take a picture of your strut mount fron the top side (under the hood). This could be worn in addition to a bad shock which could cause the clunking sound (my E28 has this problem).

The shaking could be an issue of the ball joint in the mount. It turns when the wheel turns thanks to the MacPhearson style asembly. If it is worn, the wheel can wiggle...

Thanks, I'll be changing those both as soon as the wallet allows it. Good news is I re-torqued everything and the clunk is gone. Guess I missed one yesterday.

wich one? did you notice that one had more in it to give than the others?

dumb question time.

Did you do the Lower CAs under load. (I think its those you have to do Can't remember)

One of the two if not both have to be under load before torquing them down.
I can't remember which but thats what I had to do when I did mine.

As well front strut mounts/ glides. Have they been swapped out.

Good call on the brakes guys. That was my next thought. Warped rotor.

Originally Posted by MySatinDoll

dumb question time.

Did you do the Lower CAs under load. (I think its those you have to do Can't remember)

One of the two if not both have to be under load before torquing them down.
I can't remember which but thats what I had to do when I did mine.

As well front strut mounts/ glides. Have they been swapped out.

Good call on the brakes guys. That was my next thought. Warped rotor.

Not a dumb question... exactly what I was getting at when I brought up "proper" installation.

The lowers have indexing on the bushing end, and if the car is not properly wieghted before tightening the bushing will not last long.

Originally Posted by snowsled7

Not a dumb question... exactly what I was getting at when I brought up "proper" installation.

The lowers have indexing on the bushing end, and if the car is not properly wieghted before tightening the bushing will not last long.

I figured you were. Looks like we covered everything that could cause the issue.
Hope the OP understood. Now we wait.

OP IMVHO. OP get a bentley repair manual via paperback or PDF.
It will save you a lot of grief. That way you can hop online and use it as a reference to our answers and vise versa.

In for update.

Ok, just for clarity, here's what I changed when I first noticed the problem;
1-Brakes and rotors since it felt like warped rotors...no change.
2-UCA's per recommendations and Bentley manual..noticeable improvement, but still there.
3-LCA's ,tie rods and sway bar end links(since they looked shot). Again noticeable improvement, but still there.

Everything was torqued to spec with the car under load per Bentley. The clunk was the end link(the nut was a little loose, re-tightened, problem solved)

Once the wallet allows it I will replace the shocks and mounts and hopes that solves it. Again the shocks were replaced roughly 20-30K ago so I'm hesitant, but wont rule it out.

Thanks to everyone for their input and advice. This is a great forum.

Hmm.

So all of these things were replaced.

The vibration occurs while driving and /or braking?

hmm.
Just for my own resolve put the front of the car in the air so both front wheels are off the ground.

For each side, put you hands at 3 and 9 o'clock on the wheel.
Try shaking the wheel.

Repeat for the rear.
I say check the rear just to insure we're not trying to diagnois the wrong end of the car.

If there is any movement in the front wheels and you replaced the CAs, tie rods, rotors.
The last few things left that I can think of are center tie rod, idle arms, strut mounts, wheel hubs and lasty possible wheel bend.

Sorry, for the long delay in posting. I finally got a day to work on the car that wasnt snowing or 20 below out.

After taking the car in for an alignment after replacing all the other components, my mechanic said the strut mount was looking shot and we couldn't get the the passenger side wheel zeroed in on the machine. He said the strut was on its way out and thought this was the cause of the shaking when I break.
So long story short I replaced both strut inserts and mounts and my car is still shaking in the front end and through the steering wheel and pedal when I brake

I checked all wheel bearings and they're solid. No noise, no grinding or clicking. I'm at a loss as to what else it can be.

Can't remember if this has been mentioned in the thread (and please disregard if it has), but have you checked your brake rotors for trueness? If they are warped, they can cause your symptoms.

Are your rims the original rims or are you using rims from say a E39? E39 rims on an E34 car requires hub centric rings.