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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:45 AM
dtscaps dtscaps is offline
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2008 E70 4.8i service advice

Hello all, thanks for a great forum !

I had my oil and filter changed at the local dealership yesterday.
Talking to the SA about other recommended actions to take, he advised me to do a fuel system cleaning involving a disconnect of the fuel line and attaching a tank with special "solution" and let the car run on this for a while. (a $200 cost) According to him due to the ethanol in the fuel. He also recommended a brake fluid flush even though itís not due in the idrive system. Last brake fluid flush was august 2009. (a $170 cost)

Could you guys please share your opinions about this?

Car has 55000 miles on it.

Regards,
Henning
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:48 AM
smyles smyles is offline
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Definitely the brake fluid flush. As for the fuel system, I'd leave it alone if you have no issues, or if you still feel an urge, just use a pour-in-tank cleaner from walmart/autozone/etc.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:47 AM
digdesign digdesign is offline
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Sounds like snake oil to me. I wouldn't do either.
If you want to keep the fuel system clean run a bottle of Techron from Chevron every so often. But it's probably not needed.
What was his rationale for bleeding the brake system ahead of schedule?
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Last edited by digdesign; 01-17-2013 at 07:50 AM.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:52 AM
brown370 brown370 is offline
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Brake fluid and Transmission fluid should be changed every 2 years, because of breakdown and hydroscopity (moisture absorbing properties). Under CPO BMW changed both twice. As for the fuel if your cocerned add a can of Seafoam to your tank every oil change.
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:11 AM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Well you should be using PEA detergents regularly as BMW, Mercedes, Porsche manuals recommend.

I assume you use Techron, Redline SL1, or Regane regularly?

You will have better luck changing the fuel filter.
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:12 AM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brown370 View Post
Brake fluid and Transmission fluid should be changed every 2 years, because of breakdown and hydroscopity (moisture absorbing properties). Under CPO BMW changed both twice. As for the fuel if your cocerned add a can of Seafoam to your tank every oil change.

Seafoam is snake oil in my opinion.
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  #7  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:17 AM
digdesign digdesign is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brown370 View Post
Brake fluid and Transmission fluid should be changed every 2 years
I had no idea BMW recommended changing it so often, that seems excessive for a passenger car.
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  #8  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:24 AM
brown370 brown370 is offline
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That is interesting to me because, all the fluids are so called "long life". I guess they are not after all.

Oh, long life is a term used to authorize longer maintenance intervals, which save money when you provide no cost maintenance to your customer.
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(Previous rides)
04 BMW 645 CiC Auto
97 VW Jetta Jazz 5 SPD
06 Mazda 6 Grand Sport Auto
05 BMW X5 3.0 6 SPD
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  #9  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:31 AM
digdesign digdesign is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brown370 View Post
That is interesting to me because, all the fluids are so called "long life". I guess they are not after all.

Oh, long life is a term used to authorize longer maintenance intervals, which save money when you provide no cost maintenance to your customer.
Ha! If they could only create fluids that are long life for the first 3 years of ownership, then short life thereafter.
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  #10  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:04 AM
smyles smyles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brown370 View Post
Transmission fluid ... hydroscopity (moisture absorbing properties).
Dude, seriously? How can you get moisture in a closed, sealed system??
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:53 AM
brown370 brown370 is offline
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Sorry, I was referring to the brake fluid getting moisture in it, not the transmission fluid.
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11 Audi A5 2.0T 8 Spd Tripotronic w Sport Pkg, 19" Anthracite Wheels
12 VW CC 2.0T [/B] stock
05 VW GTI 1.8 T 5 Spd, Coilovers, Big Brakes,

(Previous rides)
04 BMW 645 CiC Auto
97 VW Jetta Jazz 5 SPD
06 Mazda 6 Grand Sport Auto
05 BMW X5 3.0 6 SPD
05 Infiniti G35 6 SPD
04 Volvo S60 "R" 6 SPD
99 Nissan Maxima 5 SPD
91 Nissan 300ZX 5 SPD
92 Honda Prelude Si Auto
76 Fiat Spyder 124 5 SPD
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2013, 11:12 AM
brown370 brown370 is offline
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As for long life transmission fluid. I changed some on a 2002 Lexus GS 300 with 125K on it. The Lexus dealer refused to change it for her because it was lifetime. When I drained it, it looked like conventional motor oil with 10K miles on it (jet black and thick).New fluid is clear and thin with a pink tint to it. I put some of the stuff that I drained in a bottle and gave it to her to take to the dealer. The dealer said they know but their hands are tied because they are not suppose to change the fluid. WTH

Anyway, since then I have never kept any fluid past the recommended change interval. I change my BMW engine Oil at 8K vs 15K-20K indicated by the condition based maintenance monitors in the car.

BTW, I am an auto technician and aircraft technician.
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11 Audi A5 2.0T 8 Spd Tripotronic w Sport Pkg, 19" Anthracite Wheels
12 VW CC 2.0T [/B] stock
05 VW GTI 1.8 T 5 Spd, Coilovers, Big Brakes,

(Previous rides)
04 BMW 645 CiC Auto
97 VW Jetta Jazz 5 SPD
06 Mazda 6 Grand Sport Auto
05 BMW X5 3.0 6 SPD
05 Infiniti G35 6 SPD
04 Volvo S60 "R" 6 SPD
99 Nissan Maxima 5 SPD
91 Nissan 300ZX 5 SPD
92 Honda Prelude Si Auto
76 Fiat Spyder 124 5 SPD

Last edited by brown370; 01-17-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:03 PM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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If you look at the service instructions for changing transmission fluid, they require a surgically clean environment.

Maybe someone can post them.

I wouldn't change transmission fluid before 100k.
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:06 PM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brown370 View Post
Brake fluid and Transmission fluid should be changed every 2 years, because of breakdown and hydroscopity (moisture absorbing properties). Under CPO BMW changed both twice. As for the fuel if your cocerned add a can of Seafoam to your tank every oil change.

I never heard about a dealer changing transmission fluid as part of regular maintenance.
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2013, 05:02 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtscaps View Post
Hello all, thanks for a great forum !

I had my oil and filter changed at the local dealership yesterday.
Talking to the SA about other recommended actions to take, he advised me to do a fuel system cleaning involving a disconnect of the fuel line and attaching a tank with special "solution" and let the car run on this for a while. (a $200 cost) According to him due to the ethanol in the fuel. He also recommended a brake fluid flush even though itís not due in the idrive system. Last brake fluid flush was august 2009. (a $170 cost)

Could you guys please share your opinions about this?

Car has 55000 miles on it.

Regards,
Henning

1. The fuel system cleaning is a rip off, IMO- unnecessary. The use of 'ethanol' is a half truth to confuse you and create fear. Fear and uncertainty are the most effective sales tools service advisors have.... Even **IF** Ethanol may damage components in the fuel system, how would cleaning it change the damage?

2. Change the Fuel Filter.

3. 55k miles, change the ATF. There are MANY, MANY threads on ATF, but generally BMW says it is lifetime fluid, but they also consider 100k miles to be the lifetime of the transmission. They recommend a change at 100k, just after the CPO/extended warranty is done...to late for issues with failing transmissions and new fluid to impact their bottom line.

4. Brake flush SHOULD be done under your BMW program. I seem to recall the fluid flush was not explicitly in the CBS so many dealers didnt do it. Every 2-3 years.
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:18 PM
dtscaps dtscaps is offline
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Thanks everyone for your insights.
I'll try and draw some conclusions with my limited skills.

I will cancel the fuel system cleaning.
I will do the brake fluid flush.
I'll ask for a quote on a fuel filter and ATF replacement. Anyone likes to suggest a fair price for this?
Are there any filters involved with the ATF replament ?
The car is out of warranty and not CPOed.

Thanks again,
Henning
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2013, 04:15 AM
smyles smyles is offline
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ATF replacement involves changing the transmission filter and altogether, if done right, is $$$, probably 500 or more. One thing to keep in mind, there's no established correlation b/w fluid change and gearbox longevity: live examples of 250+ K miles on original fluid coexist with broken ones where fluid was changed some way - and no one can say for sure (but obviously can speculate) whether it broke due to or despite the change. Also, often the issues are related to mechatronic parts (not fluid related), and you end up dropping the pan and changing some of the fluid anyway.

Last edited by smyles; 01-18-2013 at 04:17 AM.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2013, 07:47 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smyles View Post
ATF replacement involves changing the transmission filter and altogether, if done right, is $$$, probably 500 or more. One thing to keep in mind, there's no established correlation b/w fluid change and gearbox longevity: live examples of 250+ K miles on original fluid coexist with broken ones where fluid was changed some way - and no one can say for sure (but obviously can speculate) whether it broke due to or despite the change. Also, often the issues are related to mechatronic parts (not fluid related), and you end up dropping the pan and changing some of the fluid anyway.
The whole "there is no data" argument reminds me of the cigarette companies defenses for all those years.... "no data suggesting that cigarettes caused YOUR cancer"

I've read a few people talk about "Oh the fluid doesnt fail, it is some other part" (Hi JCL ) but the fact is that the correlation between fluid degradation, transmnission wear and fouling, and ultimate failures is well known IN GENERAL. But perhaps BMW has engineered aomething that has been impossible for the last 40 years....

So, to be clear: NO TRANSMISSION EVER FAILS DUE TO FLUID FAILURE.

Clear?

The primary failure is part wear and sludge build-ip leading to improper actuation with a resulting range of symptoms.

IMO

A


PS OP- the BMW dealer will almost surely talk you out of a fluid change. Find a good transmission shop with experience in these trannies. My 2 cents
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  #19  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:21 AM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Looks like official documentation from BMW:

http://www.bmw-planet.com/lib/Operat...ansmission.pdf
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  #20  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:24 AM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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It tells you the correct fluid to use.
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  #21  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:09 AM
dtscaps dtscaps is offline
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Thanks,

Looks like I need to order BMW Part No. 83 22 0 142 516. not sure about the quantity though.
Can anyone recommend a good trannie shop in SW Florida ?

Got a quote for the fuel filter change for $200. Sounds resonable?

Henning
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:57 AM
smyles smyles is offline
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Originally Posted by dtscaps View Post
Looks like I need to order BMW Part No. 83 22 0 142 516. not sure about the quantity though.
Looks like you've decided to do the fluid change anyway, so my advice would be to ask whatever shop you choose to tell you exactly how they will be changing it, and about the quantity too.
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  #23  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:13 PM
hilander hilander is offline
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@brown370 I know I am a little off the topic here but I want your advise on one thing, I have an X5 2007 4.8, I recently changed the water pump and expansion tank and ever since I lost heater power,
the car start in the morning heat start coming slowly and very week (warm and never hot knowing temp is set to 28 C) from both center vents, when I start driving the driver start giving out cold air and the passenger vet becomes very less warm. sometimes cold as well.

I was told by the service manager of BMW that this could be due to an air pocket! any idea how to effectively bleed the system?
thanks
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