Throttle Hesitation - DRIVING US NUTS!!!

here is the "official thread" regarding tip-in:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...light=throttle

Originally Posted by greyX1

here is the "official thread" regarding tip-in:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...light=throttle

Awesome, thanks for that link!!!!

I got my X1 xDrive28i about three weeks ago. I didn't notice the acceleration lag so much at first, but now it is starting to drive me crazy and feels dangerous when I am trying to pull into traffic. At its worse I think it is a few seconds from the time I push down the accelerator to anything happening.

Has anyone tried the Throttle Body Adaptation reset mentioned in this thread?

It looks like a software update fixed the 5 series acceleration lag issue. I am contacting my dealer about my X1. If enough of us speak up, hopefully BMW will release the same fix for the X1 series.

Originally Posted by schnieds

Awesome, thanks for that link!!!!

I got my X1 xDrive28i about three weeks ago. I didn't notice the acceleration lag so much at first, but now it is starting to drive me crazy and feels dangerous when I am trying to pull into traffic. At its worse I think it is a few seconds from the time I push down the accelerator to anything happening.

Has anyone tried the Throttle Body Adaptation reset mentioned in this thread?

It looks like a software update fixed the 5 series acceleration lag issue. I am contacting my dealer about my X1. If enough of us speak up, hopefully BMW will release the same fix for the X1 series.

I took my X1 into the dealership and had them reset the transmission adaptives. It seemed to have helped somewhat. I'll also try the throttle body adaptation reset tomorrow.

BMW has to take these complaints seriously eventually, so it'll certainly help if everyone bitches about it. FYI... I called BMW Canada, and they just made a note of it and referred me to the dealership.

Originally Posted by schnieds

Awesome, thanks for that link!!!!

I got my X1 xDrive28i about three weeks ago. I didn't notice the acceleration lag so much at first, but now it is starting to drive me crazy and feels dangerous when I am trying to pull into traffic. At its worse I think it is a few seconds from the time I push down the accelerator to anything happening.

Has anyone tried the Throttle Body Adaptation reset mentioned in this thread?

It looks like a software update fixed the 5 series acceleration lag issue. I am contacting my dealer about my X1. If enough of us speak up, hopefully BMW will release the same fix for the X1 series.

Yes, it's scary to drive with such an unpredictable throttle lag. It's hard to believe to say that my first ever feeling of driving an unsafe car is experienced in a brand new BMW!

The throttle body adaptation reset works, but only temporarily. The lag will come back in a few weeks.

Keeping my 2006 Explorer V8 is looking more attractive the more I read. I wonder if the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 8-speed will have the same problems? My guess is that the transmission is too light to handle the torque, due to the crazy CAFE regulations, so they slow application of the engine torque to prevent excessive warranty work on failed transmissions. There are several versions of the ZF 8-speed.

If you like your Explorer, get the new Explorer. It is much improved. The X1 is a completely different type of vehicle.

Originally Posted by nospam

If you like your Explorer, get the new Explorer. It is much improved. The X1 is a completely different type of vehicle.

I disagree completely - the new Explorer is front wheel drive, something I do not want, is way too wide, too long, weighs way too much, and can not even carry some of the things my 2006 Explorer easily carries, as they built big boxes on both sides of the cargo compartment. I tried the seats in a top of the line fully loaded Explorer Sport, and they were so bad that I did not even bother to drive it. Yuck!

The main problem with the X1 for me is that it may be too small, and this hesitation thing sounds like a multiple times per day nuisance. I do like that it can be had without navigation. The X1 would be easier to park, a significant issue for much of the work I do. The X3 coats way more, and has almost no practical increase in cargo capacity.

I'm tempted by the new longer version of the Hyundai Santa Fe which goes on sale in a few weeks, as I like the interior, the second row captain's chairs (even better than 40-20-40), and it is about the same size as my Explorer, but I really do not want front wheel drive, or front-based AWD. I've had enough front drivers (1984 Pontiac Sunbird Turbo, 1988 Pontiac Bonneville SSE, 2005 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx) that I know it is an inferior design.

I can afford (pay cash) for just about any vehicle, but am focused on investing in nice newer single family houses in nice neighborhoods where rents are good, not spending big on depreciating vehicles.

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

I disagree completely - the new Explorer is front wheel drive, something I do not want, is way too wide, too long, weighs way too much, and can not even carry some of the things my 2006 Explorer easily carries, as they built big boxes on both sides of the cargo compartment. I tried the seats in a top of the line fully loaded Explorer Sport, and they were so bad that I did not even bother to drive it. Yuck!

The main problem with the X1 for me is that it may be too small, and this hesitation thing sounds like a multiple times per day nuisance. I do like that it can be had without navigation. The X1 would be easier to park, a significant issue for much of the work I do. The X3 coats way more, and has almost no practical increase in cargo capacity.

I'm tempted by the new longer version of the Hyundai Santa Fe which goes on sale in a few weeks, as I like the interior, the second row captain's chairs (even better than 40-20-40), and it is about the same size as my Explorer, but I really do not want front wheel drive, or front-based AWD. I've had enough front drivers (1984 Pontiac Sunbird Turbo, 1988 Pontiac Bonneville SSE, 2005 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx) that I know it is an inferior design.

I can afford (pay cash) for just about any vehicle, but am focused on investing in nice newer single family houses in nice neighborhoods where rents are good, not spending big on depreciating vehicles.

Let me say this. The 2013 Santa Fe and the 2013 X1 are two completely different vehicles. From the outside, the Santa Fe might appear to be similar and only slightly larger than the X1, but that is where the similarities stop. When I looked into these two vehicles (they were both my 1 and 2 for vehicles when I was looking) I test drove both and thought they were similar. The BMW, however, felt more planted, nimble, and sporty. The difference was not huge, though. My initial feelings were not all that accurate, though.

Shortly after I purchased my X1 through ED I tipped my father off, who was in search of a new vehicle, to the Santa Fe and he ended up buying one. His car is a 2013 2.0T Sport Santa Fe with every option possible. The car is a VERY nice car, but now having my X1, and us having now driven each others cars for a day or more, we both agree that they are much different cars.

The Santa Fe is a large SUV. It may not be extremely large, though the long wheel base version might be, but it is much larger than the X1. I can get a side by side shot of the two cars together for comparison if you want. The X1, like my initial feelings gave me, is much more nimble and sporty. It is a smaller vehicle and in my fathers words, "more like a sporty wagon than an SUV." The Santa Fe drives like an SUV, yet the X1 drives like a sporty sedan. The Santa Fe also has a lot more technology and standard bells and whistles, and the BMW may be simpler in total, but it is more luxurious than the Santa Fe.

The comparisons could go on all day, but realistically it is like comparing an Orange to a Grapefruit. The Santa Fe and X1 are different vehicles.

Santa Fe will also be a full second slower to 60mph than the X1 28i (if not more). As the previous poster said... Can't be compared.

Back on topic: despite its annoyance I would still purchase the X1, knowing a fix will be out at some point (as per other BMW models that have been thru this). If you notice it, make sure your dealership registers a complaint with BMW NA/CANADA.

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

The X3 coats way more, and has almost no practical increase in cargo capacity.

You and I disagree a lot, but it's all good.

We looked closely at the X1 and X3 and the X3 has a substantial advantage in both rear passenger and cargo space. The price differential was not that great, allthough the X3 does have more optional features. The only reason I was able to talk my wife into the X1 is that it drives more like a E90 3 series (which is what I gave up).

You also like to mention how you can pay cash for any car you want...is that necessary? With these low interest rates, financing and leasing can make fiscal sense. We are not all in the same places financially. No need to rub our noses in it.

I like driving our C230, and the X1 is probably much like it, but the C230 has no hesitation.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the lack of strength in the transmission strength being the reason for the lag?

Originally Posted by nospam

No need to rub our noses in it.

That is not at all my goal. The trouble with Internet communication is that so much of what happens when people are together is lost. I'm just trying to help people achieve financial independence, despite the siren songs of the lenders and sellers. Car loans and most consumer debt are very bad ideas, no matter how it is sliced and diced. I overspent and had credit when I was younger, and it was silly. I'd suggest listening to Dave Ramsey - "debt is dumb and cash is king, and the paid off home mortage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol...".

I agree with Ramsey most of the time. I achieved financial independence until I met my wife who has over $200k of student loan debt. She is finishing her medical residency so the investment will eventually pay off. I have a rental property with a mortgage but positive cash flow. I will add another but just can't pay cash like you.

Not everyone can buy property with cash and it just isn't fair for you to say things like, if you can't pay cash you can't afford the car. While our economy is down, we do have the advantage of outstanding interest rates right now.

I'm picking up my X1 in a few hours and I will be able to give a fair review of the lag compared to the E82, E90, F30, and many of the rental cars I've driven.

You and I should have coffee sometime (although Ramsey hates coffee shops!).

Originally Posted by nospam

I'm picking up my X1 in a few hours and I will be able to give a fair review of the lag compared to the E82, E90, F30, and many of the rental cars I've driven.

congrats on the X1 purchase, and do please report back what you think!

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

Anyone else have any thoughts on the lack of strength in the transmission strength being the reason for the lag?

Not the case.
If you follow the thread here -->http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ghlight=tip+in you'll see it's happened before and is strictly computer related. There's a graph in post #155 that visually describes the issue, and many 'post-update' responses that confirmed it solved things. BMW just needs to address it in the X1 28i platform.

I've had my x28i M Sport since yesterday. I'm not sure folks are going to like my report. The X1 does not have tip-in issue reported on the 2011 5-series, IMO.

The throttle action is no different than our 2009 128i, 2009 335i (sold), or my parent's 2012 328i (drove it today). This is just how BMWs are these days.

I've been driving BMW's since the late 90's (E36, E39, E46). There was a difference in the way the throttle responded to the pedal inputs between those older 3 series and the E39 5 series (by my recollection). The 3s were more responsive and sporty than the 540i which had more power but throttle responsiveness was smoother and less sporty.

When someone ran a red light and totaled my E46 I purchased the 2009 LCI E90 335i (my first BMW drive by wire). The throttle response reminded me of the old E39 5 series, tuned a bit more to feel luxurious than sporty. I felt like the E90 was an amalgamation of the E46 and E39. When my wife's 2007 Honda Accord was totaled, she got the 2009 128i coupe.

In BMW D/Drive there is some minor throttle delay (I estimate no more than 1/4 sec) but no more than in the Accord or in many other rental cars I've driven (most recently a 2012 Maxima). Again, this slight delay makes normal driving (cruising) more luxurious/smoother. In DS/Sport the throttle response improves greatly and is quite sporting.

I have a 2001 Honda S2000 with Greddy Turbo (very little lag) that I has been my daily driver for the last 8 weeks. This vehicle is the furthest thing from drive by wire you can find these days.

I am convinced the perceived X1 throttle delay is due to the 8AT transmission tuning. In D/Drive, the transmission is in such a high gear and must downshift when you depress the throttle. Taking off from a light, the car idles and takes off in 2nd by default. Feathering the gas takes off smoothly. Mashing the gas in D/Drive has a delay because it has to downshift and rev match. In DS/Sport, you can take off from a light with no issues. Same things happen during normal driving. The transmission in D/Drive cruises in such a high gear that it must downshift when you mash the throttle, causing additional delay.

When you are in DS/Sport, the transmission is already in an appropriate gear and often doesn't need to downshift when you give it some gas. We don't even need to discuss ECO PRO. Don't use it unless you are cruising on the freeway, it completely mutes responsiveness.

So far, I am very happy with my decision to trade the 335i for the x28i. The 8AT transmission is awesome so far. I was able to use the paddles to click from 8 directly into 4th...impossible to do with the 6AT.

Sorry for the long post. I hope it was all coherent.

Originally Posted by nospam

I've had my x28i M Sport since yesterday. I'm not sure folks are going to like my report. The X1 does not have tip-in issue reported on the 2011 5-series, IMO.

The throttle action is no different than our 2009 128i, 2009 335i (sold), or my parent's 2012 328i (drove it today). This is just how BMWs are these days.

I've been driving BMW's since the late 90's (E36, E39, E46). There was a difference in the way the throttle responded to the pedal inputs between those older 3 series and the E39 5 series (by my recollection). The 3s were more responsive and sporty than the 540i which had more power but throttle responsiveness was smoother and less sporty.

When someone ran a red light and totaled my E46 I purchased the 2009 LCI E90 335i (my first BMW drive by wire). The throttle response reminded me of the old E39 5 series, tuned a bit more to feel luxurious than sporty. I felt like the E90 was an amalgamation of the E46 and E39. When my wife's 2007 Honda Accord was totaled, she got the 2009 128i coupe.

In BMW D/Drive there is some minor throttle delay (I estimate no more than 1/4 sec) but no more than in the Accord or in many other rental cars I've driven (most recently a 2012 Maxima). Again, this slight delay makes normal driving (cruising) more luxurious/smoother. In DS/Sport the throttle response improves greatly and is quite sporting.

I have a 2001 Honda S2000 with Greddy Turbo (very little lag) that I has been my daily driver for the last 8 weeks. This vehicle is the furthest thing from drive by wire you can find these days.

I am convinced the perceived X1 throttle delay is due to the 8AT transmission tuning. In D/Drive, the transmission is in such a high gear and must downshift when you depress the throttle. Taking off from a light, the car idles and takes off in 2nd by default. Feathering the gas takes off smoothly. Mashing the gas in D/Drive has a delay because it has to downshift and rev match. In DS/Sport, you can take off from a light with no issues. Same things happen during normal driving. The transmission in D/Drive cruises in such a high gear that it must downshift when you mash the throttle, causing additional delay.

When you are in DS/Sport, the transmission is already in an appropriate gear and often doesn't need to downshift when you give it some gas. We don't even need to discuss ECO PRO. Don't use it unless you are cruising on the freeway, it completely mutes responsiveness.

So far, I am very happy with my decision to trade the 335i for the x28i. The 8AT transmission is awesome so far. I was able to use the paddles to click from 8 directly into 4th...impossible to do with the 6AT.

Sorry for the long post. I hope it was all coherent.

The thing is I experienced plenty of lag in full manual mode shifting myself first gear always from stopped, it wasn't gear related, the gas pedal simply had a lot of lag in response on the N20/8 speed from a stop

Originally Posted by Farkled

The thing is I experienced plenty of lag in full manual mode shifting myself first gear always from stopped, it wasn't gear related, the gas pedal simply had a lot of lag in response on the N20/8 speed from a stop

Hmmm, I only tested the auto modes from a stop. I'll test S/Manual mode from a stop tomorrow

Originally Posted by Farkled

The thing is I experienced plenty of lag in full manual mode shifting myself first gear always from stopped, it wasn't gear related, the gas pedal simply had a lot of lag in response on the N20/8 speed from a stop

My thoughts exactly. It's almost worse in M than D. Also reading above, the 6sp seems to suffer from a similar delay from stop.

Originally Posted by greyX1

Also reading above, the 6sp seems to suffer from a similar delay from stop.

Not as bad though on the 35 from my test drives, the lag felt more like the typical BMW drive by wire play that I've experienced vs the "hello is anyone home?" at times when gassing it on the 8 speeds I tried

Originally Posted by Farkled

The thing is I experienced plenty of lag in full manual mode shifting myself first gear always from stopped, it wasn't gear related, the gas pedal simply had a lot of lag in response on the N20/8 speed from a stop

Took the vehicle out between football games. Drove in full manual and M1 from full stops and experienced non of the lag people are describing. Something is very fishy. My vehicle is an x28i M Sport. Could there be a difference in programming? Are M Sport owners complaining?

Anyone in SoCal having problems want to meet up and compare vehicles?

If your complaint is simply throttle response based on pedal position, the pedalbox mod will solve that problem: http://www.twmperformance.com/pedalbox/bmw-pedalbox.htm

I'm fine with pedal position response the way it is as I only drive fast when I need to. I don't race light to light anymore like I did in my early 20s.

Originally Posted by nospam

If your complaint is simply throttle response based on pedal position, the pedalbox mod will solve that problem: http://www.twmperformance.com/pedalbox/bmw-pedalbox.htm

I'm fine with pedal position response the way it is as I only drive fast when I need to. I don't race light to light anymore like I did in my early 20s.

I asked already if someone has any experience with Sprint Booster or Pedalbox. No response. May solve it, but would love to hear from someone

Originally Posted by johanness

I asked already if someone has any experience with Sprint Booster or Pedalbox. No response. May solve it, but would love to hear from someone

Is your complaint throttle position response or throttle response delay? I believe these solutions only address the former.

Originally Posted by nospam

Took the vehicle out between football games. Drove in full manual and M1 from full stops and experienced non of the lag people are describing. Something is very fishy. My vehicle is an x28i M Sport. Could there be a difference in programming? Are M Sport owners complaining?

Anyone in SoCal having problems want to meet up and compare vehicles?

Perhaps reevaluate after putting a good amount of miles on, past break in at least. The reason I am guessing this could change your result is that people seem to post an improvement when they reset the software and your car so new it is essentially reset, if you know what I mean. I can only say the lag I felt was impossible to ignore when it happened, I'd be at a stop in first, step on the gas and time stood still until it kicked to life.

I'm at 1200+ miles now. I have also been driving my parent's 2012 F30 328i extensively the last couple of weeks.

I've done some tests of throttle response and while ECO PRO is noticeably less responsive, there is no real measurable difference between D/Drive and DS/Drive Sport. The difference is in responsiveness and programming of the transmission. If you engage DS or Manual mode while in ECO PRO you will still have the [poor] ECO PRO throttle mapping. I still believe the delay folks are experiencing is transmission delay (unless my vehicle is different in some way). It seems that in D/Drive the transmission waits at times (asking, "are you sure") before kicking down into the proper gear. No such issue with DS or full Manual mode.

Our X1 throttle response is equivalent to the F30 328i in COMFORT mode as well as our 128i and E90 335i. It is not as responsive as the F30 Sport/Sport+ modes (even in X1 DS mode). The F30 feels more powerful/sporty over all simply because it is lighter and you feel more of the road with the lower suspension. The X1 is much more comfortable to drive on the highway but nowhere near as sporty on the curves. The F30 is a true sports sedan and much closer in performance to my E90 N54 335i than the X1 28i is. I'm hoping the BMS N20 Stage 1 tune will give me some headroom and power closer to the F30 328i.

The 28i really needs to be in the right gear to get the most out of the engine. When you need responsiveness, I recommend you always switch to DS or Manual mode. Only use ECO PRO for highway driving and D/Drive for relaxed driving around town.