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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #51  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:31 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by mark_12345 View Post
'14 E63 4Matic is more desirable to the 99% of the drivers as a result of the AWD + gobs of HP.

The remaining 1% of drivers, who track their cars will continue to appreciate the power and RWD of the M cars.
I bet 99% of the members on this forum never track their cars, and are primarily concerned with how good their car looks and if they can enter/exit the on ramp quicker then the next car ...
So of the 1% of buyers who can afford to purchase this car, and the 10% that can lease it, I would bet that over 90% of them never get either of these cars. Now take into account the 99% of those that desire AWD, apparently did not exist when compared to the 75% of the country that does not need all wheel drive. This 100% who hate to be called 1% but make up the 20% described above then in turn only purchase 3% of the 99% preferred. Subtract that from the original 1% and their you have it.


Crystal clear evidence that 50% of people will agree and disagree their is no such thing as an M5 killer. Both have their enthusiast and not everyone cares about all wheel drive.

When effective, my numbers are rounded to whatever percentage made my argument sound most believable.
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  #52  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mark_12345 View Post
The remaining 1% of drivers, who track their cars will continue to appreciate the power and RWD of the M cars
Except the M5 isn't a track monster anymore. Nor are any of the cars in this segment. They are way too luxurious and heavy to be good on the track
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  #53  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mark_12345 View Post
'14 E63 4Matic is more desirable to the 99% of the drivers as a result of the AWD + gobs of HP.
This depends on the region you live. Here in SoCal, there is no need for AWD. With all the BMW dealers we have here in LA, I bet it's difficult to find a 535xi or 550xi. There's just not much need or demand for AWD here. I personally think RWD is much more fun to drive as permitted by the weather here. RWD also means less weight and slightly better MPG. One thing I hated about MB was why they only offer the E550 as AWD for MY13. Seems like MB is really pushing their 4 Matic.

I just wish they offered RWD for the X5, but that's my wife's car. That's just me.
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  #54  
Old 01-16-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Decboy View Post
This depends on the region you live. Here in SoCal, there is no need for AWD. With all the BMW dealers we have here in LA, I bet it's difficult to find a 535xi or 550xi. There's just not much need or demand for AWD here. I personally think RWD is much more fun to drive as permitted by the weather here. RWD also means less weight and slightly better MPG. One thing I hated about MB was why they only offer the E550 as AWD for MY13. Seems like MB is really pushing their 4 Matic.

I just wish they offered RWD for the X5, but that's my wife's car. That's just me.
With 400+hp cars, I would prefer AWD no matter where I lived. To me, it is absolutely no fun to spin my tires in the rain or to squeal my tires when aggressively launching from a light.
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  #55  
Old 01-16-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Except the M5 isn't a track monster anymore. Nor are any of the cars in this segment. They are way too luxurious and heavy to be good on the track
yes, the M5 is not built primarily for the track but my fellow troll loves to nibble at the F10 http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_m5_f10.html

Last edited by bm323; 01-16-2013 at 08:15 PM.
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  #56  
Old 01-16-2013, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
With 400+hp cars, I would prefer AWD no matter where I lived. To me, it is absolutely no fun to spin my tires in the rain or to squeal my tires when aggressively launching from a light.
I totally agree - while I have not had such high powered cars I am not sure I would want to drive my humble 300 hp car without it. I love the traction AWD provides in the rain.
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  #57  
Old 01-16-2013, 08:05 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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Originally Posted by Munich77 View Post
I totally agree - while I have not had such high powered cars I am not sure I would want to drive my humble 300 hp car without it. I love the traction AWD provides in the rain.
For the pleasure of a RWD which includes better steering feel, it's just a matter of being more gentle on the throttle when it rains
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  #58  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
For the pleasure of a RWD which includes better steering feel, it's just a matter of being more gentle on the throttle when it rains
More gentle? What does that even mean? It's either ON or OFF, there's no gentle there ...

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  #59  
Old 01-18-2013, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by bm323 View Post
For the pleasure of a RWD which includes better steering feel, it's just a matter of being more gentle on the throttle when it rains
exactly.. and thats why i dared to buy a non-x drive version in cleveland

Disclaimer : I dont recommend it for every one.
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  #60  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralph1201 View Post
exactly.. and thats why i dared to buy a non-x drive version in cleveland
Except, until very recently, the xDrive F10 had better steering feel because it used the hydraulic system, versus the EPS in the RWD F10s, so your point doesn't mean anything. I think they all went to the EPS system in 2012.

There was a very recent 991 Carrera 4S video I saw online, where the journalist said its steering feel was better than the 2S models.
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  #61  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:40 PM
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I totally agree - while I have not had such high powered cars I am not sure I would want to drive my humble 300 hp car without it. I love the traction AWD provides in the rain.
This. There is reason why cars, like the Ferrari FF, Aventador, Veyron, etc all have AWD. 911 Turbo is AWD also.
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  #62  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:52 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This. There is reason why cars, like the Ferrari FF, Aventador, Veyron, etc all have AWD. 911 Turbo is AWD also.
Why didn't you include the audi r8
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  #63  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:53 PM
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Ralph1201 Ralph1201 is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Except, until very recently, the xDrive F10 had better steering feel because it used the hydraulic system, versus the EPS in the RWD F10s, so your point doesn't mean anything. I think they all went to the EPS system in 2012.

There was a very recent 991 Carrera 4S video I saw online, where the journalist said its steering feel was better than the 2S models.
I must have been more carefull. i meant the overall feel where i know the thrust comes from the rear and direction is provided by the front wheels. it makes the car more playful.

i cannot comment on the steering feel since i have no knowledge/experience on that.
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  #64  
Old 01-18-2013, 12:58 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This. There is reason why cars, like the Ferrari FF, Aventador, Veyron, etc all have AWD. 911 Turbo is AWD also.
There are also reasons why the M3, 911 GT3, Lambo Balboni, Lotus Elise, Ferrari 458 etc are RWD. This is a religous topic that only makes sense to the enthusiasts of both sides. I know what I prefer but it doesn't mean I don't like cars with AWD or see the advantages in them as well.

Last edited by solstice; 01-18-2013 at 01:08 PM.
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  #65  
Old 01-18-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
With 400+hp cars, I would prefer AWD no matter where I lived. To me, it is absolutely no fun to spin my tires in the rain or to squeal my tires when aggressively launching from a light.
That is it, somewhere around 300hp and more 4WD starts to make sense.
That is if you are ever using all that power.....
For normal cars, say powered to 250 hp RWD will do.

Oh good tires are more important for traction in bad circumstances than 4WD.
I know, I drive a Niva in the woods, using street tires on that light 4WD car gets you stuck in no time....

We discussed all the drawbacks of 4WD before.
No need going in there again.
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  #66  
Old 01-18-2013, 06:19 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
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my bets are that Autounion's quattro Audis can't do this (posted by RPiM5 in another forum)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=WZIp4ftTshk check out 2:20 and various parts

not that I'm promoting this on public roads

Last edited by bm323; 01-18-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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