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  #26  
Old 01-06-2013, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FLE39 View Post
Toyotas hay day sailed. the only thing that has me even reading about toyota is the new RWD Stick shift FRS. Maybe they can turn that microwave company around. B/c the only thing they are selling are crack box corollas. those things are everywhere.
I don't agree with this at all. Toyota and Lexus (as a company) are only getting better while Honda/Acura are ****ing around and have no direction at all. Look at the new Avalon, class leading. Lexus GS? Also fantastic car. BRZ/FRS? amazing.

As far as I'm concerned, Honda/Acura have 3 good products, that's it. Accord, CRV, and MDX. Everything else, just plain, blows. ILX? What a joke. They come out with a new Civic (2012) and refresh it a year later (MY13) because it turned out to be a pile of crap.

Quote:
I like the new Accord. Looked at one while buying the CRV. But I have 1 complaint. It's a about 10% too big. Needs scaled down. Or at least match the current year 5 series dimensions.
What's interesting is that the new Accord actually slimmed down a good amount from the last one. The last-gen was actually a full-size.
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  #27  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FLE39 View Post
^ exactly. I just read something this week about Honda being the #1 residual value brand of all cars makers in America. 52%. Average for all makes was 46%. We just picked up a 2013 CRV EX-L today.
I bought a pre-owned 09 Honda Fit Sport for less than 16K (with 2880 miles, $17K flat out-the-door after factoring in taxes and fees) in Feb 2009, and it's a 2009 model year (2nd gen in the US)

Last week, a 09 Honda Fit Sport with same mileage as mine (51K) was listed for $13K in my area.

Try to find another car on the market today has this kind of residual value.

But of course I had the advantage when the market was so depressed in 2009.

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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
As far as I'm concerned, Honda/Acura have 3 good products, that's it. Accord, CRV, and MDX. Everything else, just plain, blows. ILX? What a joke. They come out with a new Civic (2012) and refresh it a year later (MY13) because it turned out to be a pile of crap.
At least Honda acknowledged and fixed it in a year. Care to find another car company that has done it in the history?

It's also been rumored that Honda has its sight set on a new S2000.

Last edited by Griffoun; 01-07-2013 at 07:36 AM.
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:10 AM
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Lexus is a whole different animal. I know it's toyota. but i'm talking just about Honda VS toyota. not bringing Acura and Lexus into it. Lexus kills Acura. My dad bought one of the new '12 civics that is also known as a pile of crap. We had a '09 EX coupe civic. I think it got better in some aspects, worse in others. granted he got a bottom model; LX auto. But the car gets way way way above the EPA MPG's state on the sticker. I like the new dash. But I hate how the backseat has jack for headroom. I'm 5'-11" and when I sit in the back seat my head hits the headliner. The trunk lid has no liner at all. Hopefully thats a LX thing. It has road noise. and the interior plastics could have been better. But the bottom line is it's a sporty toaster car that gets phenominal gas mileage and has Honda build quality. My brother have a 2006 Corolla sport, fully loaded for it's hay day and it's been a great car. But it's cheaper than the Hondas. more head room, but more uncomfortable seating and more engine noise. and the interior is even worse than the civic IMO. Not sure what a '12 corolla interior looks like. everything has pros and cons.
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Last edited by FLE39; 01-07-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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  #29  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Griffoun View Post
At least Honda acknowledged and fixed it in a year. Care to find another car company that has done it in the history?
You mean another car company that built such a crappy car for its flagship compact that it was forced to go back and redo it?

BMW did all sorts of weird things with decontenting the E90 but then reversed a bit of that...what they did with the stereo comes to mind.

The last few years have been a race to the bottom (in the area of quality) in almost every industry as people tried to cut costs and maximize sales/profits. To do that they pretty much had to cut quality down to the level where their customers complained. I think that trend has finally reversed.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
You mean another car company that built such a crappy car for its flagship compact that it was forced to go back and redo it?

BMW did all sorts of weird things with decontenting the E90 but then reversed a bit of that...what they did with the stereo comes to mind.

The last few years have been a race to the bottom (in the area of quality) in almost every industry as people tried to cut costs and maximize sales/profits. To do that they pretty much had to cut quality down to the level where their customers complained. I think that trend has finally reversed.
Well yeah, the rest of the companies just let a model year runs its course, and they're unable to revive that model by the time a new model year is introduced, which like you've said, only goes downhill from there.
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  #31  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Manufacturer inflated residuals mean jack **** in the real world. Plus no one leases a Camry or an Accord. You'd have to be an idiot to do that.

Try getting a dealer to offer you to lease buyout price on BMW. Not happening. Toyota is being much more realistic in their lease residuals.
But you just wrote above "Toyota has arguably better quality than Honda and they are doing just as well when it comes to residuals."

I can understand that some people don't see any interest in the lease. Once this barrier past, Honda has among the best ones - people who know how to count will understand.
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  #32  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:11 PM
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My dad bought one of the new '12 civics that is also known as a pile of crap.
We have a '12 Civic for our children. I got it after because it won the war of numbers, certainly not my favourite in the category. While it has some explainable fit& finish details, it doesn't qualify as pile of crap by any stretch of the imagination. According to EPA, it even costs less in fuel annually than a VW Tdi (1550$ vs 1750$).
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31187&id=31578

BTW, for last December, the best selling car in USA and in Canada is the Honda Civic '12.

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  #33  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:20 PM
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At least Honda acknowledged and fixed it in a year. Care to find another car company that has done it in the history?

It's also been rumored that Honda has its sight set on a new S2000.
Any company that screws up one of their most important models is clueless, in my opinion. And it's not just the Civic.

The ILX is also supposed to get an emergency refresh. Ridiculous.

The Honda lineup, itself, is pretty lackluster. Besides the Accord, CRV, MDX, and (I'll give you the Fit, I love the little thing), nothing stands out at all. TL, TSX, RL, RDX, Insight, CRZ, Civic, etc all meh.

That being said, GM is also doing the same with the new Malibu, so let's not act like Honda is so special

Last edited by AutoUnion; 01-07-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Once this barrier past, Honda has among the best ones - people who know how to count will understand.
I guess the same people who lease boring family sedans are the same people who bang on about how awesome their base 323i is
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  #35  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
According to EPA, it even costs less in fuel annually than a VW Tdi (1550$ vs 1750$).


BTW, for last December, the best selling car in USA and in Canada is the Honda Civic '12.

No one is comparing it to the VW TDI. No matter how you spin it, the TDI is a more premium car.

The Civic being the best selling car is a big deal, but how many of those were left-over 2012 models that Honda was desperately fire-saleing? They even issued a statement to all the dealers to sell their 2012 stock ASAP because the better 2013 models were incoming.
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I guess the same people who lease boring family sedans are the same people who bang on about how awesome their base 323i is
We can see that your 'retardness' hasn't changed so much. Some things never change.

Quote:
No one is comparing it to the VW TDI. No matter how you spin it, the TDI is a more premium car.

The Civic being the best selling car is a big deal, but how many of those were left-over 2012 models that Honda was desperately fire-saleing? They even issued a statement to all the dealers to sell their 2012 stock ASAP because the better 2013 models were incoming.
And the success was seen in last December. Mission achieved.
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Last edited by Saintor; 01-07-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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  #37  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:30 PM
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And the success was seen in last December. Mission achieved.
Honda fire-saled them. That's not success. That just shows that there are suckers born everyday to buy the leftover 12 models, whereas the 13 is significantly better.
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  #38  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:54 PM
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Let me tell you about VW quality. We bought a new 2010 TDI Jetta wagon. Loaded. Loved the compact wagon, 48mpg on diesel. interior was pretty nice. 22k miles rolls around. my 7 month pregnent wife is on the side of the road in rush hour, in the FL summer heat with a 14 month old new car. 1hr later VW road side sent someone to come get it. Took the dealer 5 days to fix the car. I learned all about the VW disaster going on with the HPFP. When the HPFP goes, they have to replace everything. Injectors, lines, tank filters etc. When I went to pick it up, there was about 10 pages to the repair ticket for just parts. Turns out VW HPFP's like to go out and cost around $7-$10k to repair!!!! The warranty picked this one up, but I thought it was a powertrain item... wrong again. 3yrs/36k on this POS even though Safecar.Gov has a open file on this issue. VW forum basically has a dedicated thread for TDI HPFP failures. Can happen anywhere from 2k miles to never. And just b/c it happens once, it can happen again. VW does not have a improved HPFP like BMW did on my 335i. So you think I was going to hang on to a car that has a ticking time bomb of a HPFP? You can't even trust the car for a vacation trip. It gives no warning. just goes. And I work out of town, so that car was dumped the weekend we picked it up. VW has terrible reliability. The SA @ VW actually gave me the iggy to dump it and get a Subaru forester/wagon if we wanted something like the wagon. Tons of people are in the middle of law suites also over this.. they buy a used car 2 yrs old, pump goes. dealer fixes it they go to pick up their $14k used car and the SA asks for $8k. My wife also had a new 2003 Bug gas motor 2.0. That ws the biggest problematic POS also. Fuel pump relays, fuel pumps, CD players. Car was gone by 25k. I F'n hate VW. No VW/Audio products in my house. So Honda may have issues, but VW doesn't even come close to Honda reliability. I think the new redeisgned Honda (CRV, Accords) are back on track and safeter, etc.... I'm glad we got the new 2013 CRV. I even bought it from a local dealer with lifetime unlimited miles powertrain warranty as long as we own the car through them. So CV joint goes in 7yrs... $100 deductible. Overall the jap cars are top notch for reliability and overall cost of ownership. I mean even an ugly Camry is efficient, safe, reliable and will run 10yrs with little to no problems. No VW ever made can even think of saying that. What irks me with some of the Japanese cars are the noise, tiny box feel, cheapness etc. Hence why we never bought a CRV until they brought it up to date. That CRV was overdue for a remake. So I'll enjoy my 2 BMW's and she has a spanky new, updated Honda. it's a good spread. And when we pack up the family to go 15hrs on vacation I won't be on pins and needles about a HPFP going out. And the chances of a new Honda leaving you on the side of the road vs a VW or her '08 C300? I'm sure the Honda has the statistic advantage by a few hundred miles. GM and Ford are catching up quick. GM makes some nice updated products, offer 10yr/100k warrnties and really don't have a lot of issues. I just don't care for the bulk/bloatedness they generally carry.
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Last edited by tim330i; 04-03-2013 at 06:19 AM.
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  #39  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FLE39 View Post
Let me tell you about VW quality. We bought a new 2010 TDI Jetta wagon. Loaded. Loved the compact wagon, 48mpg on diesel. interior was pretty nice. 22k miles rolls around. I F'n hate VW. No VW/Audio products in my house. So Honda may have issues, but VW doesn't even come close to Honda reliability. I think the new redeisgned Honda (CRV, Accords) are back on track and safeter, etc.... I'm glad we got the new 2013 CRV. I even bought it from a local dealer with lifetime unlimited miles powertrain warranty as long as we own the car through them. So CV joint goes in 7yrs... $100 deductible.
I've owned that exact car (Jetta TDI Sportwagen). Waited 18 months on the local waiting list to get it. Traded it in on the X5d. Also had an Audi Q7. Both were flawless. Owned countless other VWs in the last couple years, so I guess I would call myself experienced in VAG cars.

Most, if not, all the diesel HPFP issues stem from poor quality diesel fuel or owners forgetting that their car runs on diesel. Yes, I frequent TDIClub.com also. Have been there for years. There are plenty of 100k+ mile TDIs out there, so I really can't take your anecdote into account.

VW has been warrantying the HPFP stuff for years now, even if you are out of warranty. It's not a big deal at all.

Just an fyi, BMW's quality is on the decline, not Audi. Recent Consumer Reports/JDPower put them much above BMW for the last couple years.

No one in their right mind would argue that VW reliability matches Honda. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that recent Hondas (except Accord, CRV, Fit, MDX) are just lackluster cars that sell because of its badge, that's it. The Jetta feels like a more premium car than a Civic.
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  #40  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:21 PM
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^ I can agree with you on that. But on the HPFP the dealer told me flat out, to my face if this happens after 3yrs/36k it will not be covered. I even raised hell and had some territory manager call me and explain to me why the HPFP was only warrantied for 3y/36k miles. And while our jetta was in for repair... it was not alone. There was 3 including ours that week for the same issue. SA even was bashing how often they get towed in for this. I don't buy the poor diesel. We never had a oops moment either with gas. I owned a 6.0 F250 for a few years with no issues or mishaps. VW can shove that TDI pump where the sun doesn't shine. And the delayed gas pedal with it. While I was waiting for our car, some old guy was in there for a oil change or something on his VW and was telling another SA about how he hates the delayed gas pedal and almost got hit b/c of it... I found it funny. if VW just listened and didn't do stupid crap like that, they would get better. Obviously my BMW's are old(er). I don't know anything about new BMW's. but both my cars are great. And for a non-luxury car Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Subaru are no brainer can't lose options.
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Last edited by FLE39; 01-07-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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  #41  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FLE39 View Post
^ I can agree with you on that. But on the HPFP the dealer told me flat out, to my face if this happens after 3yrs/36k it will not be covered. I even raised hell and had some territory manager call me and explain to me why the HPFP was only warrantied for 3y/36k miles. And while our jetta was in for repair... it was not alone. There was 3 including ours that week for the same issue. SA even was bashing how often they get towed in for this. I don't buy the poor diesel. We never had a oops moment either with gas. I owned a 6.0 F250 for a few years with no issues or mishaps. VW can shove that TDI pump where the sun doesn't shine. And the delayed gas pedal with it. While I was waiting for our car, some old guy was in there for a oil change or something on his VW and was telling another SA about how he hates the delayed gas pedal and almost got hit b/c of it... I found it funny. if VW just listened and didn't do stupid crap like that, they would get better.
what delayed gas pedal?

We aren't talking about the ZF 8SPD throttle lag that most new BMWs are experiencing
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  #42  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:09 PM
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I've been looking at the EX-L Navi V6 Accord coupe. I really like the look inside and out!

The only shortcoming I find is the lack of HID/Active headlights.Interesting the the priority was placed on LED DRL's - not real headlights.

dont get me started on VAG products....
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  #43  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:31 PM
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great discussion here my winter car will be a honda or a camry. built to last

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  #44  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:48 PM
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My wife has a 2003 CRV with 120K miles, and absolutely no problems. I want her to get a new one, but she says the only car she would replace it with is another CRV, and she sees no point in spending 25-30K for a new car that is just like this only a bit newer, when her car runs fine.

What can ya do?
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  #45  
Old 01-19-2013, 07:34 AM
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I am very annoyed with the Accord 2013 dash. What's the point of having its central part oriented toward the passenger?. It just doesn't feel right. The Mazda6 2014 felt much better overall. Too bad that Mazda abandoned the V6.
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  #46  
Old 01-19-2013, 08:06 PM
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I swear our '08 C300 center stack was slightly facing the passenger. I noticed it and irked me. Mazda makes some pretty cool stuff, i'm just not sure why they don't sell more of them. ??? Goofy front bumpers maybe.
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  #47  
Old 04-11-2013, 08:47 AM
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I really don't know why I ever consider buying anything but Honda. The wife currently has a 2013 Acura RDX. Really couldn't be happier with it. Nice size, great power, nice interior gets about 25mpg which is the same as the 160hp Nissan Rogue she had before this one.

I've had an 04 Accord that was bulletproof and is still in the family. I've always wanted an S2000 but it's just too tight of fit. Had a 2000 Civic Si that I bought new and sold it two years later for a $500 loss. 8? Accord Se-i coupe that was bulletproof.

Ok I guess I had one bad Honda. I had a 97 CRV that was very underpowered and had some issue on the highway where it would constantly shift down a gear.

So 5 Honda's and not one has had any reliability issues. With that said, their current lineup is pretty boring and Acura cars are even more boring for the price. I wouldn't mind a Honda Fit for a winter car.
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  #48  
Old 04-11-2013, 10:49 AM
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I really don't know why I ever consider buying anything but Honda. The wife currently has a 2013 Acura RDX. Really couldn't be happier with it. Nice size, great power, nice interior gets about 25mpg which is the same as the 160hp Nissan Rogue she had before this one.

I've had an 04 Accord that was bulletproof and is still in the family. I've always wanted an S2000 but it's just too tight of fit. Had a 2000 Civic Si that I bought new and sold it two years later for a $500 loss. 8? Accord Se-i coupe that was bulletproof.

Ok I guess I had one bad Honda. I had a 97 CRV that was very underpowered and had some issue on the highway where it would constantly shift down a gear.

So 5 Honda's and not one has had any reliability issues. With that said, their current lineup is pretty boring and Acura cars are even more boring for the price. I wouldn't mind a Honda Fit for a winter car.
Hondas (and Acuras) are great in terms of reliability and they offer excellent manual transmissions, but there's something missing in the excitement department. From the Japanese brands, my favorite would be Nissan.
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2003 325i / Gray Green / Beige Leatherette / 4 DR / 5 MT / Moonroof / 219K+ Miles / Bought 12-21-2002 / Sold 10-21-2013
1998 Civic EX / Vogue Silver / Gray / 4 DR / 5 MT / 122K+ Miles / Bought 12-30-1997 / Totaled 08-2002
1988 Sentra / Gray / Gray / 2 DR / 4 MT / 190K+ Miles / Bought 06-1994 @ 120K+ Miles / Died 12-1997
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  #49  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:58 PM
Chris90's Avatar
Chris90 Chris90 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Massachusetts
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 13,795
Mein Auto: '04 330i
We were all set on a CRV as our family car a year and a half ago, went to test drive it, and it was so loud on the highway that we bought a Subaru Outback instead.

The Outback has a better stereo and nice seats & leather, better mpg, and the trunk is deeper (but shorter). Otherwise the CRV was more fun to drive and better looking, but the highway noise was a show stopper.

The CRV has since been replaced by a really ugly new model.

We also liked the Odyssey, drove nice, but it's just too big, we're hoping to get by with the Outback and two kids.
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Last edited by Chris90; 04-11-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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  #50  
Old 04-12-2013, 04:08 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
Dark Knight
Location: U.S
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,557
Mein Auto: '13 BMW 535i M Sport
I think it's nice for a moderate Midsize Economy Sedan, but don't appreciate how little vision has gone into the design. Honda has no design language or distinction anymore. The car looks like it's trying to be a Genesis (rear & general character), BMW (still knocking off their Hofmeister Kink.... on a FWD), and Mercedes (cheepishly AMG-ish angled front bumper).
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'13 F10 BMW 535i Sport : Jet Black/Black-Anthracite : Premium & Technology Packages/Sport Auto Trans/Camera/Park Distance Control/Heated Seats/Tinted Windows/Blacked Out Markers/Performance Spoiler.

Ex M-B's: '11/'10/'06 E350's w/ AMG Sport Package, '02 S500 w/ Every Option.
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