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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #26  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:51 AM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Location: SW Mountains
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TR6guy View Post
Yes i did...
According to SAE Tech bulletin# 770087, Any flat tappet engine will need more ZDDP than is supplied in ANY API rated oil since 1993.
They started reducing ZDDP From 0.15% by volume to 0.075% (as of 2004) in 1988.
Reason: The zink that is emitted into exhaust streams shortens the life of cats. The useful life standard is 150k (2009) as set by EPA.
Cordially...

SAE tech bulliten 770087 was published in 1977 according to my search... How they could be commenting on what happened in 1993 is confusing to me. Do you have an actual link we can read, because I am not paying a subscription to just read SAE papers.

How many ppm of zddp do you think is required to safely lubricate your engine? The fact is there are zddp numbers all over the place. In my link alone I see a range of 750-1300 ppm, so some oils have double the zinc of others but you claim that still isn't enough?

If none of the oils since 1993 have had enough zinc to prevent premature flat tappet wear, and my car was built in 1992 without roller tappets, can you explain to me how it has lasted 180,000 miles (and counting) on zinc poor oils?

Seems to me that the lubrication must be at least adequate?
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Last edited by snowsled7; 01-22-2013 at 04:53 AM.
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  #27  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:41 AM
TR6guy TR6guy is offline
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Location: Brewster, NY
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Mein Auto: 2006 330xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsled7 View Post
SAE tech bulliten 770087 was published in 1977 according to my search... How they could be commenting on what happened in 1993 is confusing to me. Do you have an actual link we can read, because I am not paying a subscription to just read SAE papers.

How many ppm of zddp do you think is required to safely lubricate your engine? The fact is there are zddp numbers all over the place. In my link alone I see a range of 750-1300 ppm, so some oils have double the zinc of others but you claim that still isn't enough?

If none of the oils since 1993 have had enough zinc to prevent premature flat tappet wear, and my car was built in 1992 without roller tappets, can you explain to me how it has lasted 180,000 miles (and counting) on zinc poor oils?

Seems to me that the lubrication must be at least adequate?
There have been many articles referencing the SAE bulletin i have read up to 2009. As i said, my info is a few years old. I even read some NASCAR engine builders complaining on tear-downs how much more wear they are seeing (?)
Unless you have a baseline Dino test when new, and do one now, I don't know how to judge what the wear level is in an engine or how long it should/will last. Overhead cams don't have the leverage applied that pushrods engines do, but wear statements ( such as from CompetitionCams) make me re-think what I use in what I drive. Wear is wear!
I've never had an engine fail internally, even way back when I used "Castrol R". That said, I do change oil (even synthetic) sooner than specified by the manufacture.
My '85 325 had 220k with regular oil + STP when I sold it a few years ago. That also proves nothing except it seemed to run as good as when I got it with 40k on it.
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  #28  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:55 AM
rdorman rdorman is offline
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The old zddp debate lives on! Oil choice will kill an engine. Flat tappets like 1200-1500 ppm. A number of high mileage, diesel, motorcycle and racing oils have plenty. Years ago I wiped a cam in my 1966 Cobra using the wrong Mobil 1. After repair I switched that motor to synthetic rotella T. Many years later, no cam issues. FYI that diagnosis of oil being the issue was from the cam manufacturer, the engine builder and two independent resources. Lesson learned. Just so no one thinks I am down on Mobil 1 , I run their 0w-40 in my BMW. Terrific oil.... For THAT engine! My last UOAat 16,200 miles opened like a choir of angels. No issues what so ever and oil had plenty of life. Still, would not run it in a flat tappet motor.
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  #29  
Old 03-04-2013, 05:24 PM
Detained Detained is offline
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Location: Lancaster, PA
 
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Mein Auto: A car....
LMAO....... Seems no matter what forum I am on oil always gets a rise from folks, well my Dodge truck, Chevy cargo van, wife's Chrysler T&C van, my Harley's (including my custom builds) and EVEN my Cub Cadet lawn tractor ALL get Castrol 20w50 year round. Just my preference and the fact that I have been using the same brand and weight since I was a kid in everything I've owned with NO regrets whatsoever......... Just for reference, I'm now 46 and had my own first car at 16 and rode my first bike, 1976 AMF Sportster since 17 so yes, time has shown me all I need to know!! :P
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