Can someone explain the logic here?

Originally Posted by tturedraider

You never drove a BMW before yours or your mom's, did you?

Yes, 09' 535 and 06' X3. Sorry I'm not old enough to appreciate earlier models

Also drove a Cadillac CTS before the current 528 (was supposed to actually get a 328 but my mother thought the 5 series was too bloated so she gave it to me and we ordered her the F30 luxury line [just like BJ's])....Caddy had much more HP and torque than that 320 though.

BJ you should have seen all the chicks I picked up in HS and Ugrad in the Caddy.

Originally Posted by gcreese

The 320 also follows the "Goldilocks Rule" in marketing: If you offer 3 choices, most people will buy the middle option (328). With just 2 choices, most people will buy the bottom option, because they don't want to spend too much. With three options, you have price-constrained people buying the bottom option (320) and most people buying the middle option (328) -- because it's still not the most expensive option (so they're being prudent) but it's also not the least expensive option (so they avoid looking cheap). In short, the 328 becomes the safe middle option. The 320 not only brings in new customers that BMW never had before, it also gives BMW an upsell model it never had in the past.

This is classic marketing, using a three-tier product structure to increase sales. There's a reason BMW has had the 3, 5, and 7 Series, Mercedes has had the C, E, and S Series, and Audi has had the A4, A6, and A8 Series. BMW's 2, 4, and 6 Series are now bringing the Goldilocks Rule to coupes.

Best comment in thread.

Originally Posted by Red Lined

Best comment in thread.

I guess you are finally happy with the answer, whether it is correct or not?

i think the bottom line on this one is, especially with BMW, some people just want to be able to brag about their number or series being better than someone elses.

Originally Posted by kyled

i think the bottom line on this one is, especially with BMW, some people just want to be able to brag about their number or series being better than someone elses.

Definitely a big factor with the non-enthusiast crowd, but a slightly different take:

Once someone realizes they can afford a BMW, it then boils down to how much you want to spend per month and whether the 5 or the 3 gives you what you need. I myself was expecting to move from my E90 into an F10 this past summer. Budgeted myself around $579 for the new ride. I didn't like what I had heard about the 328i becoming a four-cylinder car, and loved the look of the new 5.

But upon taking a test drive, I was surprised and shocked by what I had learned. The new 328i engine was a beast, and the 5 required i get a 35i and was way bigger than I needed. The slight growth in body dimensions on the 3 made it perfect for my family, and the lower base price meant I could add more options on a 328i as opposed to a stripped down 535i.

The typical non-luxury car observer wouldn't know the difference between the 3 and 5 if you put a gun to their head. The only people that know the differences are luxury car aficionados who now can tell that I am in a Luxury line 3 not a stripped 5. BMW's strategy seems to be very clear; offer the same car in several different sizes And let the customer decide what fits. No different than buying a new Armani suit.

BJ

Originally Posted by Red Lined

Ok, bear with me I'm only a medical student and not an MBA. I'm sorry, but I still don't see how this new model makes any sense. Granted there is only one thing more boring to me than thinking about lease payments for an old guy's even older mother (and that would be the three pages of gram positive and gram negative bacteria I have to memorize). But let's see now:

The $38,595 320 is ~$439 a month.
The $42,645 328 is ~$486 a month

When you're already paying ~$17,000 to lease a car for three years, what is another $1,700 more? I just don't see it. Was it really worth BMW rolling in yet another model just to cut the lease price 10%?

Believe me, I understand that "badge whores" will be all over this...but really I can't see it putting a ton more sales in BMW portfolio. 180hp is not enough for this car. I have the same engine in my 528 and my mother has a 328 with the I4. In both cars it is barely enough with the added torque being the mitigating factor. This engine is going to suck, big time.

People don't buy logically. They say, i can afford $325, but not a penny more. Then they put more down to hit it.

It is just an entry level car that most people will get almost bare bone. People who want a modestly optioned 3 will get the 328 instead. Remember that a difference of $1K is big enough for majority of the auto buyers. Just IMHO.

Originally Posted by 408Racer

Dude, what are you doing with the Roundel in your sig?
Having it for dinner? ... jk, no offense

i can explain it right here:


bmw want to be able to capture people shopping for deals like that.
90% wont get past the price per month and the fact its a bmw for the price of an infiniti.

most people dont know or care about 4 cylinders vs 6, turbo vs non turbo, they want a nice car with a certain badge on the trunk to park in their driveway.

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

i can explain it right here:


bmw want to be able to capture people shopping for deals like that.
90% wont get past the price per month and the fact its a bmw for the price of an infiniti.

most people dont know or care about 4 cylinders vs 6, turbo vs non turbo, they want a nice car with a certain badge on the trunk to park in their driveway.

Sounds like Mr. & Mrs. Camry

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

i can explain it right here:


bmw want to be able to capture people shopping for deals like that.
90% wont get past the price per month and the fact its a bmw for the price of an infiniti.

most people dont know or care about 4 cylinders vs 6, turbo vs non turbo, they want a nice car with a certain badge on the trunk to park in their driveway.

I suppose there are a certain number of people who are too naiive to look past the $299/mo and see the $3499 initial payment which comes out to $145/mo over 24 months, so the actual cost per month for the car is $299+145.79 or 444.79/mo which means it will cost $10,675 to lease the car for 24 months.

Infiniti could have made the deal appear even more attractive by quoting a monthly lease price of $25.00 (with an initial payment of $10.075.00

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I suppose there are a certain number of people who are too naiive to look past the $299/mo and see the $3499 initial payment which comes out to $145/mo over 24 months, so the actual cost per month for the car is $299+145.79 or 444.79/mo which means it will cost $10,675 to lease the car for 24 months.

Infiniti could have made the deal appear even more attractive by quoting a monthly lease price of $25.00 (with an initial payment of $10.075.00

CA

most people are payment shoppers... they dont see past the monthly. bmws advert has about 3500 in cap cost reductions:

Well-equipped including features such as Premium Package (Leather, Moonroof, Comfort Access, Satellite Radio), Automatic Transmission, Power Seats, iPod/USB Adapter, Hands-free Bluetooth and Destination charges.
$369*/month for 36 months. $750 Loyalty Cash included in payment.
Vehicle Registered outside N.Y.
• $369 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security Deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,844 Cash due at signing
Vehicle Registered in N.Y.
• $369 First months payment
• $2,750 Down payment
• $0 Security deposit
• $725 Acquisition fee
• $3,844 Cash due at signing

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Definitely a big factor with the non-enthusiast crowd, but a slightly different take:

Once someone realizes they can afford a BMW, it then boils down to how much you want to spend per month and whether the 5 or the 3 gives you what you need. I myself was expecting to move from my E90 into an F10 this past summer. Budgeted myself around $579 for the new ride. I didn't like what I had heard about the 328i becoming a four-cylinder car, and loved the look of the new 5.

But upon taking a test drive, I was surprised and shocked by what I had learned. The new 328i engine was a beast, and the 5 required i get a 35i and was way bigger than I needed. The slight growth in body dimensions on the 3 made it perfect for my family, and the lower base price meant I could add more options on a 328i as opposed to a stripped down 535i.

The typical non-luxury car observer wouldn't know the difference between the 3 and 5 if you put a gun to their head. The only people that know the differences are luxury car aficionados who now can tell that I am in a Luxury line 3 not a stripped 5. BMW's strategy seems to be very clear; offer the same car in several different sizes And let the customer decide what fits. No different than buying a new Armani suit.

BJ

I actually tried this, and I found out that, when one puts a gun to someone's head, and demands that they distinguish a 535 from a 335, they invariably are able to, as long as they get a view from the rear. The view from the front is too similar, true, but the view from the rear is different enough that they can tell.

I tried this on at least a dozen people.

Originally Posted by Kamdog

I actually tried this, and I found out that, when one puts a gun to someone's head, and demands that they distinguish a 535 from a 335, they invariably are able to, as long as they get a view from the rear. The view from the front is too similar, true, but the view from the rear is different enough that they can tell.

I tried this on at least a dozen people.

I agree but find the opposite to be true about the tail. To me, both the 3 and 5 rears are too similar. The way I can tell the differences are:

1. Three dimensional grille connecting to the headlights (on 3).

2. Lack of front fender turn signals (on 3).

3. Lower, angrier nose (on 3).

BJ

Originally Posted by Kamdog

I actually tried this, and I found out that, when one puts a gun to someone's head, and demands that they distinguish a 535 from a 335, they invariably are able to, as long as they get a view from the rear. The view from the front is too similar, true, but the view from the rear is different enough that they can tell.

I tried this on at least a dozen people.

Well that may be a way to tell the difference now, but when Obama takes everyone's guns away you are going to have to find an alternative method.
My personal favorite is to look at the back of the car and see whether it says 335 or 535.

CA

Originally Posted by Red Lined

Ok, bear with me I'm only a medical student and not an MBA. I'm sorry, but I still don't see how this new model makes any sense. Granted there is only one thing more boring to me than thinking about lease payments for an old guy's even older mother (and that would be the three pages of gram positive and gram negative bacteria I have to memorize). But let's see now:

The $38,595 320 is ~$439 a month.
The $42,645 328 is ~$486 a month

When you're already paying ~$17,000 to lease a car for three years, what is another $1,700 more? I just don't see it. Was it really worth BMW rolling in yet another model just to cut the lease price 10%?

i love it when people make the "hey what is $X more gonna matter". well... what is another $1700 more.... its $1700!

exactly. thats exactly what $1700 is. now i wouldn't buy a 320i , i wanted m-sport , i wanted a little more power whatever. but people said the same thing about buying a 328i vs a 335. "why not get the 335i for $4000 more" or whatever. well, because i'd have $4000 left.

i mean the 320i is just another option and for some people itll be the right option. a lot of people buy the 3 series because its a good car. it has good electronics, they like the design, they are a badge whore and like how having a BMW makes them feel about themselves no matter how misguided that is. as far as i've seen the vast vast majority of F30s i've seen have 17: rims. so i'd assume the vast majority of people do not care if they have a "line" like sport/lux/modern. if people just want to pay a little more to get a 320i over say an accord i-4 EX-L then they get those buyers. i mean in the end the cost difference is something like $6k and you get free maintenance and you get RWD. hell if it was all i could spend i'd probably do it too.

i mean if your goal was getting a car witht he latest technology, you wanted it to be reasonably fast (And 0-60 in 7 seconds is pretty fast , its faster than a lot of cars) and you did not care if you got anything more than this, then might as well save your $1700 right.

From what I read the 320 is on the cutting edge of technology and can be extremely efficient if the driver wants it to be. It will probably be popular with early adopters, but traditional BMW buyers who want a more traditional BMW propulsion system will probably go for the 328. Although the 320 is more advanced, BMW probably does not feel that buyers would accept paying more for it than for a 328. If I'm wrong I will happily defer to someone who knows more about the subject.

RL - I think it can be summed upped with this...Gen Y.

This is the next big market for car makers and they want to get this demographic into the fold as soon and easily as possible. This group likes nice things, but seem to be more "cost conscious" due to coming of age/money in less stable economic times. All car makers are targeting this market, including the lux's of MB, Audi, Acura, Caddy and now BMW. Nothing yet from Lexus, Infiniti, Volvo, but I'm sure they are eyeing it up seriously. There are about 76million people in this "Millennial Generation"...that's huge and they'll need something to make up for the Boomer's...uh, moving on, let's say.

That said, BMW has done the easiest (and smartest) thing to do to jump into this fold immediately, especially after the CLA, upcoming A3 4 door (or whatever), ILX, ATS, etc. They've immediately "created" an entry level car, priced competitively, with NO wait time, minimal to no re-engineering costs, and...a 4 door. Something lacking in the 1 Series line. This makes complete sense.

Also, let's say you are right on your approximate "only" $50 difference via lease, so why bother. Either way, BMW can make out with a sale. You can have buyer's go either direction and it doesn't hurt BMW or the buyer. You could have one buyer come in and balk at paying another $50 for various reasons or doesn't fit their budget, so they get the 320. Likewise, you could have the next buyer come in and go, wow, only another $50 bucks and I can just go with the 328. With that thinking, I bet they also add a few more options and maybe push the difference up a tad more. Either way, BMW wins and it gets entry level lux buyers in the showroom. Those that thought they maybe could never afford a BMW.

Bottom line, I think this is a smart move by BMW. When my dealership gets a 320 sport, I'll be checking it out in a heartbeat...and I have a 335. If BMW can bring 80-85% of what I already have in a less expensive, more fun package, I'm game. I don't need leather or all the bells and whistles, just a fun driving experience and the 320 sport could do just that...with a $500 "chip", of course. Ha.

Originally Posted by chrisk03

RL - I think it can be summed upped with this...Gen Y...

That's what I said. Next thing you know this forum will be filled with people who can call BJ grandpa.

Originally Posted by dtc100

That's what I said. Next thing you know this forum will be filled with people who can call BJ grandpa.

Eh?

Shpeak up, shunny.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Eh?

Shpeak up, shunny.

BJ

Sorry did not mean to cause any confusion, how about this: That's what I said. Next thing you know this forum will be filled with kids who can call BJ senior citizen.

Originally Posted by dtc100

That's what I said. Next thing you know this forum will be filled with people who can call BJ grandpa.

Ah, sorry dtc, missed your comment on that. Agree with u obviously.

As for BJ, honestly already thought he was a grandpa...he's driving around in the "luxury" version of the 3series...328 at that. Plus, he has the platinum visa...those only go to seniors I'm told.

It seems to me that those that cannot make sense of the 320i are forgetting the days of the Value Package (leather, wheels, USB for free) E90 328i for about $34,000 - or even less after (the now common for BMW) trunk money. It is understandable... that was so 18 months ago.

Or the days of the 2006 325i with all its 200hp for about $31,000 back in the day.

All that matters is that BMW is back in the entry-level luxury segment with the X1 and this 320i. And they will go even deeper with the 1- and 2-Series.

The 328i is no longer that car. This is simple.

Originally Posted by chrisk03

Ah, sorry dtc, missed your comment on that. Agree with u obviously.

As for BJ, honestly already thought he was a grandpa...he's driving around in the "luxury" version of the 3series...328 at that. Plus, he has the platinum visa...those only go to seniors I'm told.

I'm 48 and grew up in an upper-middle class BMW-driving family so, no, didn't impregnate my 17 year old girlfriend and thus no grandchildren. My oldest is 14, so I'm 15 years away from that at least.

The Luxury line is the best looking of the F30's. That cannot be argued. That's why I drive it.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

I'm 48 and grew up in an upper-middle class BMW-driving family so, no, didn't impregnate my 17 year old girlfriend and thus no grandchildren. My oldest is 14, so I'm 15 years away from that at least.

The Luxury line is the best looking of the F30's. That cannot be argued. That's why I drive it.

BJ

Guess I better keep my day job and leave the humor to you. Thanks for the family update, however.

If you're ever driving Rt 1 and Alexander Rd, honk, I'll look for "the best looking of the F30's" and wave.