Food for thought again ? Cadillac ATS

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

Wrong. Try again.


"While we're disappointed that the ATS's most potent engine is denied a clutch and an H-pattern, at least it has an automatic that thinks like a stick. When you grab a shift with either the console lever or a steering-wheel paddle, this transmission does what it can to heighten the fun. It drops gears when you slow for a turn to maximize the blast out of the bend and delays upshifts during acceleration until you pull the trigger or hit the redline. A full manual mode can be engaged by moving the lever to the left. In that setting, no shift occurs without a paddle tap or a lever nudge, even when the tach needle is bumping the rev limiter."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...s-sedan-page-2

And they also said...

"The 3.6's sport-steering setting feels good, but it would be preferable to select these modes separately. In one winding stretch, for example, while we were running at a brisk-but not breakneck-speed, the transmission suddenly shifted down two gears because the "performance algorithm liftfoot" mode that's activated when in sport mode suddenly thought we were between two corners on a racetrack and decided we needed to keep our revs up. It was startling and unwelcome; we'd like to be able to drive twisty roads with the suspension and steering in sport mode without worrying about this happening."

Originally Posted by Carnook

And they also said...

"The 3.6's sport-steering setting feels good, but it would be preferable to select these modes separately. In one winding stretch, for example, while we were running at a brisk-but not breakneck-speed, the transmission suddenly shifted down two gears because the "performance algorithm liftfoot" mode that's activated when in sport mode suddenly thought we were between two corners on a racetrack and decided we needed to keep our revs up. It was startling and unwelcome; we'd like to be able to drive twisty roads with the suspension and steering in sport mode without worrying about this happening."

So it is a little aggressive and shifted two gears? Sounds like a WIN to me, after all this is a "sport" sedan (FYI this is a common complaint about the ZF8 and DSG transmissions).

Originally Posted by Carnook

Actually they were complaining about both.

Can you post links to their complaints about the AT in the ATS? I don't remember reading this and I subscribe both to C and D and R & T.

am I the only one who suspects this board is overrun by audi/cadillac employees?

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Can you post links to their complaints about the AT in the ATS? I don't remember reading this and I subscribe both to C and D and R & T.

The CNET guy complained about the 3.6 auto shifted too aggressively, although he should have just left it in the touring mode not use the sport mode, given that he was all about the gadgets review

Originally Posted by chris328

am I the only one who suspects this board is overrun by audi/cadillac employees?

Employees are usually prohibited by the companies for legal reasons. Are you the only person? No, but that does not make it a good guess.

Originally Posted by chris328

am I the only one who suspects this board is overrun by audi/cadillac employees?

What makes you think that? Is it because most car enthusiasts care more about the way the car drives than what emblem it has on its hood?

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

How is it weak? Its pretty much on pair with the N55 when it comes to straight line acceleration. The N55 hardly "spanks" the 3.6.

ATS 3.6
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 25.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.0 sec @ 102 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

F30 335i
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.0 sec
Street Start, 5–60 mph: 5.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 103 mph
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review

Have you driven/accelerated an ATS 3.6 and a 335i from a standstill? I have. I'm not re-posting numbers from a magazine.


Here are some numbers I'll re-post - 274 (267 according to C&D) lb-ft tq at 4,800 rpms, 321 hp at 6,800 rpms for the ATS 3.6. My little 330i N52 makes its max 220 lb-ft tq at 2,750 rpms.

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Can you post links to their complaints about the AT in the ATS? I don't remember reading this and I subscribe both to C and D and R & T.

Car and Driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

"The 3.6’s sport-steering setting feels good, but it would be preferable to select these modes separately. In one winding stretch, for example, while we were running at a brisk—but not breakneck—speed, the transmission suddenly shifted down two gears because the “performance algorithm liftfoot” mode that’s activated when in sport mode suddenly thought we were between two corners on a racetrack and decided we needed to keep our revs up. It was startling and unwelcome; we’d like to be able to drive twisty roads with the suspension and steering in sport mode without worrying about this happening."

Motor Trend
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ts_first_test/

"GM's six-speed auto has been tuned up for performance duty and offers upshifts so quick, most people would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between this torque converter auto and a dual-clutch unit. Downshifts, though still quite good, are where the torque converter loses time and a little composure. The six-speed manual, available only with the turbo four-cylinder engine, is a very nice box with short, crisp throws with a pleasant mechanical feel to them and an easy-to-modulate clutch."

CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2013-c...-35430052.html

"...the problem is the transmission gets in the way... in any of the automatic modes its a bore... it falls on its face, it misses shifts, it hunts too high too often. It pisses me off."

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Have you driven/accelerated an ATS 3.6 and a 335i from a standstill? I have. I'm not re-posting numbers from a magazine.

The N/A V6 has some disadvantage from a standstill of course.

What I found interesting is, when I first tested the 3.6 right after it was released, I thought it lacked refinement compared to my N/A I6 328i when revved high. In the latest test of another 3.6, did not have that same complaint, probably because I was more aggressive this time.

The bottom line, the ATS needs to be pushed hard, it is tuned such way, whether the 3.6 or 2.0T.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Have you driven/accelerated an ATS 3.6 and a 335i from a standstill? I have. I'm not re-posting numbers from a magazine.


Here are some numbers I'll re-post - 274 (267 according to C&D) lb-ft tq at 4,800 rpms, 321 hp at 6,800 rpms for the ATS 3.6. My little 330i N52 makes its max 220 lb-ft tq at 2,750 rpms.

I have not driven the ATS 3.6 but I had plenty of seat time behind a N55 powered 335. It pulls hard but it is nothing special in stock form, IS350 felt stronger. I personally prefer NA power delivery to a FI one. At the end of the day numbers don't lie and the ATS 3.6 is right up there with the N55. Given the choice I personally would take the 3.6.

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

What makes you think that? Is it because most car enthusiasts care more about the way the car drives than what emblem it has on its hood?

Many things that are clearly obvious. For example, just to test, I just started a new thread in the F30 forum about a Lambo, and it got moved in 5 minutes. The 5 ATS threads of course are just fine

Originally Posted by chris328

Many things that are clearly obvious. For example, just to test, I just started a new thread in the F30 forum about a Lambo, and it got moved in 5 minutes. The 5 ATS threads of course are just fine

Well, it is a direct competitor to the F30 so why not have an unbiased discussion about it?

sure. so it should be in the "general automotive" forum just like the lambo thread was moved to, because it isn't an F30.

Unless of course, you're getting paid to make it look like the ATS is better than the F30 and try and convince people who visit the forum...

Originally Posted by Carnook

Car and Driver
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

"The 3.6’s sport-steering setting feels good, but it would be preferable to select these modes separately. In one winding stretch, for example, while we were running at a brisk—but not breakneck—speed, the transmission suddenly shifted down two gears because the “performance algorithm liftfoot” mode that’s activated when in sport mode suddenly thought we were between two corners on a racetrack and decided we needed to keep our revs up. It was startling and unwelcome; we’d like to be able to drive twisty roads with the suspension and steering in sport mode without worrying about this happening."

Motor Trend
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ts_first_test/

"GM's six-speed auto has been tuned up for performance duty and offers upshifts so quick, most people would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between this torque converter auto and a dual-clutch unit. Downshifts, though still quite good, are where the torque converter loses time and a little composure. The six-speed manual, available only with the turbo four-cylinder engine, is a very nice box with short, crisp throws with a pleasant mechanical feel to them and an easy-to-modulate clutch."

CNET
http://reviews.cnet.com/sedan/2013-c...-35430052.html

"...the problem is the transmission gets in the way... in any of the automatic modes its a bore... it falls on its face, it misses shifts, it hunts too high too often. It pisses me off."

Thanks. Interesting that Motor Trend had good things to say about the 6MT with the 2.0T. Nearly every review I've read has bad comments about that transmission.

Originally Posted by chris328

sure. so it should be in the "general automotive" forum just like the lambo thread was moved to, because it isn't an F30.

Unless of course, you're getting paid to make it look like the ATS is better than the F30 and try and convince people who visit the forum...

What does your Lambo thread have to do with an F30? The ATS is a direct competitor so it makes sense to talk about it here.

Originally Posted by chris328

sure. so it should be in the "general automotive" forum just like the lambo thread was moved to, because it isn't an F30.

Unless of course, you're getting paid to make it look like the ATS is better than the F30 and try and convince people who visit the forum...

LOL, I have zero association with GM or BMW. I don't even own any GM automotive products. I am not trying to make it look like ATS is better, most magazines already did that.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

The first word that comes to my mind about the 3.6 V6 in the ATS is "weak".

5-60mph reported by Car&Driver says 5.7s for the Caddy and 5.9s for the Bimmer.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

So if you are waiting at a red light and just mash it, chances are that the ATS will be ahead by 60mph.

* Not weak.*

Originally Posted by Saintor

5-60mph reported by Car&Driver says 5.7s for the Caddy and 5.9s for the Bimmer.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ed-test-review

So if you are waiting at a red light and just mash it, chances are that the ATS will be ahead by 60mph.

* Not weak.*

0-60 for the 335i as reported by Motor Trend: 4.7 seconds

Hey saintor, are you an old grumpy man in real life?

Originally Posted by justinnum1

Hey saintor, are you an old grumpy man in real life?

Not your business. But you gotta stop acting like a stupid baby.

Originally Posted by Carnook

0-60 for the 335i as reported by Motor Trend: 4.7 seconds

Not 5-60 and good luck consistently achieving that time. As per BMW:

335i
Manual 0-60 5.4
Auto 0-60 5.1
Consistent with C & D times and real world numbers and on pair with the official ATS 3.6 0-60 times of 5.4 seconds

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...he-competition

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

Not 5-60 and good luck consistently achieving that time.

I don't need luck, I have an F30 335i Sportline with sport transmission, sport suspension and 19" rubber

Originally Posted by Carnook

I don't need luck, I have an F30 335i Sportline with sport transmission, sport suspension and 19" rubber

Woah, good for you!

Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie

Woah, good for you!

I know, I'm so special and unique.