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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #576  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:31 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Bingo. And they actually are more sporty than Benz, cause as soft as BMWs are getting, the opposition is still softer.
That and the S550 won't fit in my garage. I'd be embarrassed to admit that.
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  #577  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:53 AM
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Since the one series is still a lot cheaper than a 320 why not change the one series to a 4 door and fix its quirky looks to attract more buyers and not devalue the 3 series by offering the Camry addition. If the one series wasn't so weird looking it would have already been the choice for the "young up in comings" and would sell. If BMW would advertise the 3 series racing down a mountain in sport mode and cruising with the family in soft comfort mode they could clear up their identity crisis. Dispite this the 3 sales are #1 so does it even matter lol.
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  #578  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by L0rd NIk0n View Post
I understand why BMW is offering the 320. The 320i de-emphasizes BMW's performance to attract a wider, affluent audience.

It's hard to believe, but after all these years there are still a great many consumers, specifically luxury-car buyers, who associate BMW with the yuppie phenomenon of the 1980s.
Why is this hard to believe? The 3 Series BMW is a yuppie car and always will be.
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Last edited by beden1; 01-27-2013 at 08:01 AM.
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  #579  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:03 AM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by pony_trekker View Post
So why not go mercedes? Far more status. They give S550s free at my office if you rate.
Fine if you're 40+, I don't think 20 or 30 somethings really go for MBs in general, just feels like a brand for old folk.
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  #580  
Old 01-27-2013, 09:38 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
A BMW is a status symbol with some sporty tendencies. Period.

It hasn't been a "sports car" since the 1990's. BMW decided that there was more money to be made cultivating the wealth-persona than the performance-persona, so every 3 Series has gotten progressively bigger and softer until you get to the F30 with its "Luxury" line and "Comfort" mode.

The yuppie phenomenon has not stopped since the 1980's. In fact, it's grown. Watch some movies, see some TV shows, listen to some rap and rock songs, BMW references are everywhere. As it should be. The car tells you what it's customers want. They spend millions on research. The car is softer and more luxurious because that's precisely what 90% of its owners want. The 10% who subscribe to the performance myth don't pay the bills.

Those who are embarrassed by the perception of wealth shouldn't be driving $50,000 German luxury status-symbols even if they can be de-spec'd to $30,000.

BJ
BMW sedans were never sports cars. They were sport sedans which are cars that combine daily driver practicality with sporty driving dynamics. All performance cars are "softer" than they used to be and if they are not they should be because with the technology that is available today it is not necessary to have a bone jarring suspension to have a good handling car. Modern performance cars (i.e. BMW, Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, Ferrari, etc.) all have luxury features such as navigation systems, power windows and seats, climate control and bluetooth).

The days of the bare bones roadster with plastic side curtains, a top that had to be erected, and could be driven to the track, raced and driven back home ended a long time ago.



CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 01-27-2013 at 08:11 PM.
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  #581  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:11 AM
donquixotesque donquixotesque is offline
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
Fine if you're 40+, I don't think 20 or 30 somethings really go for MBs in general, just feels like a brand for old folk.
That's right. But the CLA will change that.
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  #582  
Old 01-27-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
BMW sedans were never sports cars. They were sport sedans/coupes (fixed) which are cars that combine daily driver practicality with sporty driving dynamics. All performance cars are "softer" than they used to be and if they are not they should be because with the technology that is available today it is not necessary to have a bone jarring suspension to have a good handling car. Modern performance cars (i.e. BMW, Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, Ferrari, etc.) all have luxury features such as navigation systems, power windows and seats, climate control and bluetooth).

The days of the bar bones roadster with plastic side curtains, a top that had to be erected, and could be driven to the track, raced and driven back home ended a long time ago.



CA
In 1979 when I bought my 320i, they were only available as sport coupes.

What a shame that the bare bones roadsters are not still around except for the Miata, although, my Carrera has similar characteristics even though it does have "back seats".

The roof has air leaks with the top up just like my 1967 MG did. It is very nostalgic and reminds me why I love sports cars. I even told the dealer not to mess with it when they said they could probably correct the air leaks.

My otherwise loaded Porsche also has an actual key ignition, and sport seats without power adjustments except for the back recliner. They are heated though, and that is a nice modern feature. I also have to manually turn my headlamps on and adjust the mirror for night & day. These are all features that true sports car enthusiasts enjoy.

There was a post in the Porsche forum where I frequent asking current owners what their first car was. I was amazed that more than 80% of their first cars were British sports cars. My first car was the 1967 MG Midget.
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  #583  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:08 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Thise were the days!

Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
In 1979 when I bought my 320i, they were only available as sport coupes.

What a shame that the bare bones roadsters are not still around except for the Miata, although, my Carrera has similar characteristics even though it does have "back seats".

The roof has air leaks with the top up just like my 1967 MG did. It is very nostalgic and reminds me why I love sports cars. I even told the dealer not to mess with it when they said they could probably correct the air leaks.

My otherwise loaded Porsche also has an actual key ignition, and sport seats without power adjustments except for the back recliner. They are heated though, and that is a nice modern feature. I also have to manually turn my headlamps on and adjust the mirror for night & day. These are all features that true sports car enthusiasts enjoy.

There was a post in the Porsche forum where I frequent asking current owners what their first car was. I was amazed that more than 80% of their first cars were British sports cars. My first car was the 1967 MG Midget.
Porsche's (other than the Speedsters) were generally relatively civilized as sports cars go. I had an Austin Healey Bug Eye Sprite, an Alfa Romeo Giuletta Spyder, an Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring and a Jaguar XK120. I still love the cars of that era but at this point would not want one as a daily driver.

This is what "Sports Cars" look like. I took these pictures last Fall at the Lime Rock Heritage Fesival (top) and the Watkins Glen Vintage Grand Prix. We attend both events every year. The Lime Rock Historics are held Labor Day Weekend and the Watkins Glen Vintage Grand Prix is the following weekend.


Cars parked in Falls Village CT after the Race Car Parade though the surrounding towns.



At Watkins Glen they "Recreated" the race though the streets. The cars paraded along the original course through the streets of the town. The Street Course was used from 1948 to 1952 before the track was built a few miles form town.
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Last edited by captainaudio; 01-27-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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  #584  
Old 01-27-2013, 04:48 PM
SD330i SD330i is offline
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Thumbs up Nice pictures !

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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Porsche's (other than the Speedsters) were generally relatively civilized as sports cars go. I had an Austin Healey Bug Eye Sprite, an Alfa Romeo Giuletta Spyder, an Alfa Romeo 2000 Touring and a Jaguar XK120. I still love the cars of that era but at this point would not want one as a daily driver.

This is what "Sports Cars" look like. I took these pictures last Fall at the Lime Rock Heritage Fesival (top) and the Watkins Glen Vintage Grand Prix. We attend both events every year. The Lime Rock Historics are held Labor Day Weekend and the Watkins Glen Vintage Grand Prix is the following weekend.


Cars parked in Falls Village CT after the Race Car Parade though the surrounding towns.



At Watkins Glen they "Recreated" the race though the streets. The cars paraded along the original course through the streets of the town. The Street Course was used from 1948 to 1952 before the track was built a few miles form town.

Love the vintage shots. From Watkins Glen & Ct. Our family one 912 & two 911T's in '70's. we auto crossed them a bit. However, my Dad ended up getting a burned up 914 , turned it into an E Production SCCA race car. Painted it the color of Hexcel Skis blue & green. My brother won E Production in the mid '70's. Point of reference. 911T Porsche in 1970 - $8,600 & in 1973 our 911T was $11,800. Amazing ! Great cars. The 914 handled like a slot car. Great memories love our 335i. & I know my Dad would have too
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  #585  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:36 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Bingo. And they actually are more sporty than Benz, cause as soft as BMWs are getting, the opposition is still softer.
Agree. Mercedes needs to always be softer than BMW, so as BMW makes the ride more comfortable it forces Mercedes to make the ride ever so close to squishy.

I like the idea of the CLA, but the execution is ugly.

BJ
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  #586  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:24 PM
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Love the vintage shots. From Watkins Glen & Ct. Our family one 912 & two 911T's in '70's. we auto crossed them a bit. However, my Dad ended up getting a burned up 914 , turned it into an E Production SCCA race car. Painted it the color of Hexcel Skis blue & green. My brother won E Production in the mid '70's. Point of reference. 911T Porsche in 1970 - $8,600 & in 1973 our 911T was $11,800. Amazing ! Great cars. The 914 handled like a slot car. Great memories love our 335i. & I know my Dad would have too
I have often said that of all of our possessions automobiles are the closest things to being friends or members of the family. For many their cars are an important component of their self image. We tend to chronicle our lives by the cars we owned, family cars when we were kids or cars we coveted as children. When we see a car similar to one that we had in our younger days it is like meeting up with an old friend. When we see a car that strikes our fancy it can be an experience that stays with us for our entire lives. I (and probably most other Boomers) clearly remember the first time I saw a Corvette Sting Ray the first time I saw a Jaguar E-Type.

This is my favorite picture from the Lime Rock Heritage Festival. This is Matthew. Matthew is being treated for bone cancer and he and his family are staying at Ronald McDonald House New York. Matthew was our guest as one of the judges for the Ronald McDonald House Kid's Choice Award which is part of the annual Sunday In The Park car show. There were cars parked all around the 1.5 mile track and about 100 cars that were entered in the Show were line up along the main straight. We were chauffeuring the kids around the track in golf karts with "Official Ronald McDonald House Kid's Choice Award" signs on them (BimmerFester EdCT was the driver). We told the kids to ask us to stop if they saw something that caught their eye. Matthew was fascinated by "The Black Beast" a 100 year old Alco race car that had competed in the Vanderbilt Cup races which were held on the streets of Long Island. I know the owner of the car as we are both members of the Chowder Club. Howard asked Matthew if he would like to sit in the car and of course he said yes.

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Last edited by captainaudio; 01-27-2013 at 06:29 PM.
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  #587  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:17 PM
SD330i SD330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I have often said that of all of our possessions automobiles are the closest things to being friends or members of the family. For many their cars are an important component of their self image. We tend to chronicle our lives by the cars we owned, family cars when we were kids or cars we coveted as children. When we see a car similar to one that we had in our younger days it is like meeting up with an old friend. When we see a car that strikes our fancy it can be an experience that stays with us for our entire lives. I (and probably most other Boomers) clearly remember the first time I saw a Corvette Sting Ray the first time I saw a Jaguar E-Type.

This is my favorite picture from the Lime Rock Heritage Festival. This is Matthew. Matthew is being treated for bone cancer and he and his family are staying at Ronald McDonald House New York. Matthew was our guest as one of the judges for the Ronald McDonald House Kid's Choice Award which is part of the annual Sunday In The Park car show. There were cars parked all around the 1.5 mile track and about 100 cars that were entered in the Show were line up along the main straight. We were chauffeuring the kids around the track in golf karts with "Official Ronald McDonald House Kid's Choice Award" signs on them (BimmerFester EdCT was the




driver). We told the kids to ask us to stop if they saw something that caught their eye. Matthew was fascinated by "The Black Beast" a 100 year old Alco race car that had competed in the Vanderbilt Cup races which were held on the streets of Long Island. I know the owner of the car as we are both members of the Chowder Club. Howard asked Matthew if he would like to sit in the car and of course he said yes.


What a priceless picture! My Dad passed away a few years ago , he was the one who instilled in my brother and I the love of cars. Especially sports & race cars ! t. Thanks Dad.
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  #588  
Old 04-15-2013, 07:10 PM
Jack in Jax Jack in Jax is offline
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Income drop vs. price increases...

BMW AG no doubt has binders full of market research that supports a 320i model in the USA line-up, and those binders will not only reflect a multitude of factors but will integrate with future model development plans.

But one obvious factor no one here has mentioned is the relatively dramatic shift in income vs. (3 Series) cost over the past decade. The mean family income has dropped 10% during that span and that's not just among check-out clerks. Meanwhile the 3 Series pricing has increased 30+%. It is no surprise we now find a four-door 320i (and also an X1) in the line-up.

Jack
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  #589  
Old 04-15-2013, 07:22 PM
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mr_clueless mr_clueless is online now
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Originally Posted by Jack in Jax View Post
BMW AG no doubt has binders full of market research that supports a 320i model in the USA line-up, and those binders will not only reflect a multitude of factors but will integrate with future model development plans.

But one obvious factor no one here has mentioned is the relatively dramatic shift in income vs. (3 Series) cost over the past decade. The mean family income has dropped 10% during that span and that's not just among check-out clerks. Meanwhile the 3 Series pricing has increased 30+%. It is no surprise we now find a four-door 320i (and also an X1) in the line-up.

Jack
It's not because of that...it's because everyone is eating everyone else's lunch. The budget car manufactures are moving upmarket and hence the upmarket folks have been forced to create budget models. If at all, BMW is in a reactive mode. Otherwise they'd just be losing sales first to Acura/Lexus/Infiniti, and now to Kia/Hyundai/....
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  #590  
Old 04-15-2013, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_clueless View Post
It's not because of that...it's because everyone is eating everyone else's lunch. The budget car manufactures are moving upmarket and hence the upmarket folks have been forced to create budget models. If at all, BMW is in a reactive mode. Otherwise they'd just be losing sales first to Acura/Lexus/Infiniti, and now to Kia/Hyundai/....
Additionally, you get more or your money now. My 2013 328i is a better value than my 2003 330i zhp. Feature for feature the 328i has more for almost the exact same msrp. That is kinda remarkable.

Last edited by brkf; 04-15-2013 at 08:36 PM.
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  #591  
Old 04-15-2013, 08:47 PM
Clepto Clepto is offline
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
Fine if you're 40+, I don't think 20 or 30 somethings really go for MBs in general, just feels like a brand for old folk.
I think the CLA will change that, up until that, I felt the same about MB. Cla Amg would be on my test drive list if I could wait a year before getting a car, but after test driving a bmw last week, I don't think I can wait, not to mention I really want rwd.
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  #592  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:45 AM
Barratt2rika Barratt2rika is offline
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Wonder what the reason is for the 320 - the 328 and 335 serve the low and high end 3 series models.
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  #593  
Old 04-16-2013, 07:42 AM
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Wonder what the reason is for the 320 - the 328 and 335 serve the low and high end 3 series models.
Um...they need to expand more. That's why we have the X1 now and the 1 and 2 series in the next few years. That's the reason for the 4 gran coupe and on and on. For cars, the companies are either growing or shrinking. BMW's goal is to appeal to as many as possible, thus the gajillion models and pull them into the family sooner. Lux brands retain more repeat buyers...so hook 'em early.
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  #594  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack in Jax View Post
BMW AG no doubt has binders full of market research that supports a 320i model in the USA line-up, and those binders will not only reflect a multitude of factors but will integrate with future model development plans.

But one obvious factor no one here has mentioned is the relatively dramatic shift in income vs. (3 Series) cost over the past decade. The mean family income has dropped 10% during that span and that's not just among check-out clerks. Meanwhile the 3 Series pricing has increased 30+%. It is no surprise we now find a four-door 320i (and also an X1) in the line-up.

Jack
It's probably median, not mean, and if it dropped that must be inflation adjusted. But yeah, 320i and 1 series keeps lower budget BMW buyers in the fold.
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  #595  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:14 AM
volnedan volnedan is offline
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Well I don't see what the big fuss is about introducing the 320. It's caught my eye, and it will definitely serve the enthusiast crowd that isn't concerned with 0-60 times, just a good looking sporty sedan that handles well and provides entry level luxury.
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  #596  
Old 04-16-2013, 10:27 AM
gkr778 gkr778 is offline
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Well I don't see what the big fuss is about introducing the 320. It's caught my eye, and it will definitely serve the enthusiast crowd that isn't concerned with 0-60 times, just a good looking sporty sedan that handles well and provides entry level luxury.
You're absolutely correct, volnedan. The 320i model, equipped with a 184 PS variant of BMW's N20 gasoline engine, has been available in every major market for the F30 except the United States. This was rectified upon introduction of a U.S. market 320i in January 2013.

So it may well be the case that BMW of North America simply wanted to harmonize the F30 product line in the USA with the rest of the world, or at least with Canada and Mexico.
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Last edited by gkr778; 04-16-2013 at 02:12 PM.
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  #597  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:25 PM
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All about market and model positioning

One thing else that hasn't been mentioned: 328d. The 328d is really a re-badged 320d, and they need to justify the market placement for the US/CA market of that car. They can make more money on a 328d than 320d, and they're not going to sell too many anyway. Adding the 320i allows them to sell a wider range, yet add more sales in the middle with the 328d.

Kind of a muddle (my paragraph and reasoning?) but marketing always sounds that way to me and others.
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