335i vs 335 xi : both with snow tires

2005 330 with the Mpackage in Boston. I have a seperate set of snows mounted on BMW steel wheels. I used to do the cheap alloy wheels at tire rack but the steels are more forgiving of the potholes. I've never had a problem in the winter and would not opt for the AWD option. I also go with a minus 1 size all around and this helps as well, the tries do't float as much on the snow. I use high performance summer tires between April and December. Also, it takes less than 45 minutes to change the tires twice a year, I take longer than others perhaps because I wire brush each hub mating surface and brush on anti-seize.

Posted this elsewhere. I'm currently in Quebec. While the ratio of AWD cars to non AWD cars is similar to states I'd say 90%of the cars here have winter tires versus maybe 1% in the states.

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

Posted this elsewhere. I'm currently in Quebec. While the ratio of AWD cars to non AWD cars is similar to states I'd say 90%of the cars here have winter tires versus maybe 1% in the states.

I thought snow tires are required in Quebec.

The Seattle area doesn't get much snow but about 10% of the cars have them, not 1%. Some cars even have studded tires, which you can hear as they drive on glass , I mean, drive.

Here in Minnesota, I'd say it's 1%. We have had snow for the past two days, and it's been constant cars in the ditch. Every single one had all seasons or summers. Not a single one in the ditch with snows. At least in my jurisdiction.
It just amazes me how people do not grasp the reasoning for snow tires. It should be common knowledge up here in the Great White North, but it's definitely not. I have had people tell me that it's a waste of money. Right...

Northern Virginia:
a. 335D with all-season, couldn't even get up a small hill and barely along on flat roads when it snowed and got hard packed and slick, and had terrible traction everywhere else. Bought snow chains and worked awesome but isn't a solution for all winter. Bought winter tires and haven't looked back. Although I still carry the snow chains just in case, since VA law says you can be ticketed if you do not have snow chains on and block an intersection.
b. 328xi with all-season, works well in my area, but haven't had to push it much in deeper snow or worse conditions since it has only snowed lightly. May end up getting winter tires if we run into problems.

Originally Posted by Reedo302

Here in Minnesota, I'd say it's 1%. We have had snow for the past two days, and it's been constant cars in the ditch. Every single one had all seasons or summers. Not a single one in the ditch with snows. At least in my jurisdiction.
It just amazes me how people do not grasp the reasoning for snow tires. It should be common knowledge up here in the Great White North, but it's definitely not. I have had people tell me that it's a waste of money. Right...

you would think, but I grew up in Minnesota (when we had serious snow, unlike these days in MN) with all-seasons and FWD. I don't think my family ever had snow tires, but that probably wasn't the safest thing in the world, but FWDs did get us through everything.

No matter where someone lives, if you get snow you need snow tires. And if you skip snow tires and stay with all seasons, XDrive isn't going to help you. Here's the pecking order:

1. Snow tires + XDrive
2. Snow tires + RWD (10% less traction than snow tires + XDrive)
3. All seasons + XDrive (50% less traction than snow tires)
4. All seasons + RWD (60% less traction than snow tires)

XDrive is a salesman's tool to get people to spend more money with BMW and less money with their local tire dealer. There is no shortcut to safety. No one likes going to the tire shop 2x a year to swap the rubber. Too bad. Deal with it. No AWD technology allows you to get away with skipping snow tires.

The good news? Once on snow tires, the 3 Series is a beast in the white stuff, one of the safest cars I've ever driven and I've been in some very nasty snow/ice storms and blizzards up in New England for 14 years before moving back down here to NJ.

BJ

I have a 550 XDrive with no snows and have not had an issue here in Michigan. About 10 inches on the lawn right now. Snows would be awesome but no problems so far.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

There is no shortcut to safety. No one likes going to the tire shop 2x a year to swap the rubber. Too bad. Deal with it. No AWD technology allows you to get away with skipping snow tires.

The good news? Once on snow tires, the 3 Series is a beast in the white stuff, one of the safest cars I've ever driven and I've been in some very nasty snow/ice storms and blizzards up in New England for 14 years before moving back down here to NJ.

BJ

Way too many people depend on all seasons year round. I can see people in Little Rock, AR or Charlotte, NC survive on all seasons even though I'd pick summer tires and either snow tires or all seasons for the winter there.

I learned how nice a jack is. One can change wheel/tire combinations themselves. A jack is so much easier than the scissors jack that comes with the car. I bought one when I saw it on sale for $14.99 5 years ago. The jack is probably too cheap to do weekly mechanical work but it's fine to use 2-3 times a year. I've seen it sell for $19.99 recently at Autozone on sale.

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

Posted this elsewhere. I'm currently in Quebec. While the ratio of AWD cars to non AWD cars is similar to states I'd say 90%of the cars here have winter tires versus maybe 1% in the states.

Is law since 2008 but historically 90% (wow I am good) of Quebec drivers used winter tires.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...re-of-success/

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

No matter where someone lives, if you get snow you need snow tires. And if you skip snow tires and stay with all seasons, XDrive isn't going to help you. Here's the pecking order:

1. Snow tires + XDrive
2. Snow tires + RWD (10% less traction than snow tires + XDrive)
3. All seasons + XDrive (50% less traction than snow tires)
4. All seasons + RWD (60% less traction than snow tires)

XDrive is a salesman's tool to get people to spend more money with BMW and less money with their local tire dealer. There is no shortcut to safety. No one likes going to the tire shop 2x a year to swap the rubber. Too bad. Deal with it. No AWD technology allows you to get away with skipping snow tires.

The good news? Once on snow tires, the 3 Series is a beast in the white stuff, one of the safest cars I've ever driven and I've been in some very nasty snow/ice storms and blizzards up in New England for 14 years before moving back down here to NJ.

BJ

Or maybe BMW is offering xDrive for people who had to make do with 2 above, to now be able to get to 1 above. It might have nothing to do with not buying snow tires at all...
Because xDrive or RWD, snow tires make your snow season safer.. if you have one..


Me - I am still reading around... getting to know what I am buying in as much detail as possible.. trying to look at both sides of the coin and see which side suits me.. this is the biggest purchase I have done till date.. yup, I'm young..

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

No matter where someone lives, if you get snow you need snow tires. And if you skip snow tires and stay with all seasons, XDrive isn't going to help you. Here's the pecking order:

1. Snow tires + XDrive
2. Snow tires + RWD (10% less traction than snow tires + XDrive)
3. All seasons + XDrive (50% less traction than snow tires)
4. All seasons + RWD (60% less traction than snow tires)

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Those are interesting numbers. Are those just your opinion or they based on some research study/evaluation? I'm not saying that they look off except #2; I would think it's greater than 10% less. I drove a 328i through two winters with snow tires and I needed 150 pounds of sand bags in the trunk to get decent traction on snow days.

I'd be interested to see what you/research would say for
5. Summer tires + XDrive (I know this one is bad even on an X5!)
6. Summer tires + RWD (And this will be even worse)

Originally Posted by Crzy'boutBimmer

Or maybe BMW is offering xDrive for people who had to make do with 2 above, to now be able to get to 1 above. It might have nothing to do with not buying snow tires at all...
Because xDrive or RWD, snow tires make your snow season safer.. if you have one..


Me - I am still reading around... getting to know what I am buying in as much detail as possible.. trying to look at both sides of the coin and see which side suits me.. this is the biggest purchase I have done till date.. yup, I'm young..

Unfortunately, though XDrive is best for #2 people to move to #1 people, too many #4 people use it as a way to avoid the hassle of putting snow tires on.

I appreciate that you're young, but here's some good news: A set of snow tires is cheaper than XDrive. So you can save some money and be much more safe in the process. Don't risk your life because sitting at a tire store is boring. Bring an iPad.

BJ

Originally Posted by brian5

Those are interesting numbers. Are those just your opinion or they based on some research study/evaluation? I'm not saying that they look off except #2; I would think it's greater than 10% less. I drove a 328i through two winters with snow tires and I needed 150 pounds of sand bags in the trunk to get decent traction on snow days.

I'd be interested to see what you/research would say for
5. Summer tires + XDrive (I know this one is bad even on an X5!)
6. Summer tires + RWD (And this will be even worse)

That's just my opinion but it's significant as it's based on driving on all 4 configurations with the same all-season tires and same winter tires between my E93 RWD and my E90 AWD in the snowy tundra's of New Hampshire for 14 years. Steep hills, sharp bends, a foot of fluffy stuff, an inch of ice, you get the idea.

XDrive vs. RWD: The difference between my E93 RWD and E90 AWD on identical snow tires (literally, the same tires because they fit both cars) in my very-good and unbiased opinion was only 10%. AWD was 10% better from a cornering standpoint and an acceleration standpoint, equal on a braking standpoint. I was stunned at how little it meant to me, wished I'd stuck with RWD so I could get the performance bump in the 9 non-snow months.

All-Seasons vs. Snow Tires: The difference here is substantial. The AWD again only was 10% better than RWD, but that's not the story. The story is that all-seasons provide at least 50% less traction, maybe more. Instead of confidently taking corners at a responsible clip, you feel the need to slow way down just to make it through. The rear slides, and stopping distance is much, much longer.

There is simply no replacement for snow tires. You can talk about it all day long, you can rationalize it all you want. For the best traction, get XDrive + Snow Tires for that 10% bump. But if you can only afford either XDrive or snow tires (they cost about the same thing) you MUST get snow tires. It's extra work. It can save your life.

BJ

Agree with the fact that all seasons are not a replacement for snows.
All seasons are a compromise in any season.

And I am a DIY guy.. wud take a jack and take care of things myself.
Per the numbers, I think you were lucky even in the bad snow you saw - as you fared only 10% less than awd.
I have been meeting many ppl who had rwd and they'd all rate 2 as being at least 25-30% less than 1 in a bad slick snow or ice.

I read a mention of power bump...there is no power diff between rwd and xdrive - unless you're talking about upgrades and after-market installs.
That's the only downside which might seriously affect awd buyers.. and the slightly more number of parts..

Originally Posted by brian5

Those are interesting numbers. Are those just your opinion or they based on some research study/evaluation? I'm not saying that they look off except #2; I would think it's greater than 10% less. I drove a 328i through two winters with snow tires and I needed 150 pounds of sand bags in the trunk to get decent traction on snow days.

I'd be interested to see what you/research would say for
5. Summer tires + XDrive (I know this one is bad even on an X5!)
6. Summer tires + RWD (And this will be even worse)

I have a very firm following for X drive and snows. Nothing else for winter. I live in Ottawa, so we get a serious winter. While you can 'get by' with AS and RWD if you stay on main roads and the city, you are still at such a compromise. I'm getting a temporary reminder right now with a new 335Xi and A/S tires. Day and night worse than my E90 330Xi with brand new snows. I was really quite shocked. This is temporary because when I picked up the new car in January I intended on trading in the 330. It had brand new snows that were destined for the new one. At the last minute I decided to keep the old car and so the tire plan got derailed. I ordered the new one with A/S so I could get the square 18" set up with the plan on getting rid of the AS immediately and go with serious snows + high perf summers. You can't beat that combo, and its much kinder on the OEM rims.

Originally Posted by brian5

Those are interesting numbers. Are those just your opinion or they based on some research study/evaluation?

Go to Car & Driver's website and search for the article they did on tire comparisons (summer, HP all-season, HP snow, snow). It was a couple years ago. I believe I posted a link in the E90 forum, but I'm not going to do so again here.

Originally Posted by STS42

2005 330 with the Mpackage in Boston. I have a seperate set of snows mounted on BMW steel wheels. I used to do the cheap alloy wheels at tire rack but the steels are more forgiving of the potholes. I've never had a problem in the winter and would not opt for the AWD option. I also go with a minus 1 size all around and this helps as well, the tries do't float as much on the snow. I use high performance summer tires between April and December. Also, it takes less than 45 minutes to change the tires twice a year, I take longer than others perhaps because I wire brush each hub mating surface and brush on anti-seize.

Bingo...live in Colorado. Ski regularly. Have used snows (separate wheels) on two RWD Beemers for 12 years...and have seen no need for AWD. But AWD with snows would give you 'some' added advantage....and might be the best combo, if you haven't driven much in snow/ice.