I Test Drove M5

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

No, simply that pretty much any time someone posts a negative review of the F10, you pretty much tell them they're an idiot.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, but that's the way you come across. You certainly don't give the impression of respecting other's opinions when they're negative.

see post #24 ... yes, idiotic. It would have been different if the criticism against the F10 was its ... (something else)

Originally Posted by bm323

Brilliant post, presumably you have the PSS, and your 535i handles like the M5

I never said 535i handle like M5. I even gave an M5 a positive for its stable handling.

I even don't like my 535i driving feel.

I don't get it why you cannot accept other people's different views.

Originally Posted by bodonx

[*]suspension: M5 suspension feels very stable and solid (not floaty) compared to my acs equipped f10. There's no body roll. The ride is actually better. I think it's due to pss tires are much more comfortable than rft. Come on bmw, why do you need to install rft?

Originally Posted by bodonx

if you switch your exhaust with m5 full exhaust (like in other thread), you will get the same experience as m5 and save $25k

:d

Originally Posted by bm323

:d

This is my last response to you.

My "review" customized for you: F10 M5 is the best car ever built.

Satisfied?

Originally Posted by bodonx

This is my last response to you.

My "review" customized for you: F10 M5 is the best car ever built.

Satisfied?

Careful, he might be offended that you ranked it higher than the M6 Gran Coupe.

Originally Posted by elitex

I somewhat agree with your assessment. Putting the Engine and Transmission aside, this is what 550I M-Sport should feel like, not an M5. I was thinking about getting an M5 but I may go with an M3, and buy a SUV as our second car.

Agree. This is why I went with x5M. Even then the M5 is still the best in its class for the price. Money no option I would pick Panamera Turbo.

The real sad thing is, for a 100k dollars I can not buy a decent M3.
So I am stuck with the sub par F11 and a Niva!
The good thing is, there probably is not a worse car in the world than a Niva.
So every time I have driven it, the BMW scores 11 out of 10.
As would any other 100 K car, I presume.
Which brings me to the next question;
Which car has the better Nurnburg time, M3 or M5?
A new BMW with steering vibrance should be taken to someone who can fix the tire or suspension problem.
My BMW's never keep any steering vibrance, if any, I have my wheels properly fit and well balanced

Originally Posted by bodonx

I test drove M5 yesterday. My current ride is 535i with ACS springs.

This is my mini review. This is only my opinion and not trying to offend M5 owners.

POSITIVE (From best to good)

1. DCT is the best part of M5 over regular F10. It's very quick yet smooth. Even if you try, you cannot make it jerk. It's light years ahead of our 8AT.
2. Suspension: M5 suspension feels very stable and solid (not floaty) compared to my ACS equipped F10. There's no body roll. The ride is actually better. I think it's due to PSS tires are much more comfortable than RFT. Come on BMW, why do you need to install RFT?
3. Power: Although most people love the power. For me, having big power on the straight line does not mean that important for me. This is like AMG in the past. Just big power, not much excitement. Past legendary M cars were about delivering driving experience no other couldn't mimic.

NEGATIVE (from most critical to least critical)

1. The steering is dead. Even older non-M 5-series had more feel than this one. Changing the steering setting only makes it heavier. Sometimes there's fake feel coming from the steering which feels more like random vibration. I don't get why BMW messed it up when they have achieved a steering perfection in E39/E30/E36/E46 era.
2. Weight: even with great handling, you can feel the car weight. You won't be able to feel the tossable feel that older M5 had over its competitors
3. Interior: the one I drove doesn't have full leather. It makes the car feel the same as regular 5-series. I think BMW has oversold "M" brand with msport on all cars. Older M userd to have special interior pieces that made them special such as steering wheel, special stitching, M logos, etc.

Verdict:

If you MUST have one car, M5 is the best choice. It is very comfortable as family/business car, it is pretty excited as a "sport" car.

For $100k, I'd prefer to get 528 and used M3. Current M3 gives 9 out of 10 driving excitement. Whereas F10 M5 only give 7 out 10 driving excitement. It's hard to explain what's missing. Current F10 M5 does not give me goose bumps like when I drove older M cars (even with less power < 400 hp).

Check this out. Seems like many others here in the states may have the same feeling about a $100k F10 M5.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797369

Personally I hope that the relative lackluster sales of the M5 is due to that buyers of the M3 and M5 expects a purer more focused drivers car that doesn't try so hard to be an uber comfortable compromise. That M buyers wants the equivalent of Porsche's GTS and GT3 cars. Ultimate and focused driver's cars with high revving NA engines with razor sharp throttle response, an agile and communicative chassi and superior steering feedback. Instead the new M5 is more like Porsche's Turbo cars with massive power and torque in a slightly softer more luxurious setup. To me the 550 is already doing this duty to a more appealing price tag. Maybe the M5 just isn't special enough in the lineup with the out of the box and highly tunable power of the 550, add to that the minimal exterior differences with the M-sport package. Maybe the lineup would have been more complete with a more traditional "purer" M car?

Originally Posted by solstice

Personally I hope that the relative lackluster sales of the M5 is due to that buyers of the M3 and M5 expects a purer more focused drivers car that doesn't try so hard to be an uber comfortable compromise. That M buyers wants the equivalent of Porsche's GTS and GT3 cars. Ultimate and focused driver's cars with high revving NA engines with razor sharp throttle response, an agile and communicative chassi and superior steering feedback. Instead the new M5 is more like Porsche's Turbo cars with massive power and torque in a slightly softer more luxurious setup. To me the 550 is already doing this duty to a more appealing price tag. Maybe the M5 just isn't special enough in the lineup with the out of the box and highly tunable power of the 550, add to that the minimal exterior differences with the M-sport package. Maybe the lineup would have been more complete with a more traditional "purer" M car?

The dealer where I test drove had 14 M5s (17 M5s 1 month before).

Originally Posted by bm323

see post #24 ... yes, idiotic. It would have been different if the criticism against the F10 was its ... (something else)

We all give up. You just don't get it.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

We all give up. You just don't get it.

not surprising since you're "getting" post #33 and the quotes in post #28

Originally Posted by bodonx

The dealer where I test drove had 14 M5s (17 M5s 1 month before).

That's a lot of M5s.

Originally Posted by bm323

not surprising since you're "getting" post #33 and the quotes in post #28

Since you love to quote posts, please find me any post where you have said anything negative about an F10 or M5.

Whereas if I had nothing better to do with my life, I could find many posts where you simply belittle people who have a negative opinion about the vehicle. Again, maybe it's a cultural thing and you're not sure how you come across, but that's pretty much it.

P.S. I really have no idea what you are trying to say about me getting post in #33 and #28. I didn't even respond to them. I didn't even offer my opinion of the car in this thread. But you're again assuming that since I'm saying something against you I must be agreeing with the original poster or subsequent posts?

Really not understanding this.

What that tells us is BMW will learn some kind of lesson from this. Being that as the F10 fly's off lots, the M5 seems to collect dust.

I think it'll be the F10 is so good of a luxury car from the start, the M5 version just doesn't do enough to warrant the "M" tag, due to it now being considered "held back" by what inherently makes the F10 such an incredible Luxury Saloon. The F10 can be specc'd so well as a non-M that it dangers rendering the M5 practically irrelevant. At one time, getting an M5 wasn't just about better paper specs, it was about a more racey and raw driving experience. Not to mention, the 550i being Turbocharged, you can squeeze out "real world" power performance of an M5, or maybe close to it (or maybe more than it), for a lot less money.

Also, the M Sport Package looks so good, that the M5 styling doesn't stand out from it enough so, I think.

People have to keep in mind, the chassis on the F10 is the same chassis under the Rolls Royce Ghost, the latter being just modified and a larger extension of it (i.e F01 chassis which houses the Ghost is an extended version of the F10 chassis). The F10 is such a BRILLIANT luxury car because the inherent chassis isn't a built up 3, it's a built down 7, and actually a built down Ghost. BMW had to over-engineer this chassis to be inherently capable under a $300+K Super-Luxury-Wafter. Some hate that, some love it. The F10's chassis has an incredibly high torsional rigidity figure due to that, to where the M5 didn't need any additional stiffening up from the basic structure, from what I hear.

.... With that, comes a ton of weight, and isolation. IMO it makes the car over-engineered in this segment, but some find it a huge downside as it's now "too much" in that area. What I can argue makes the 535i a much better car for the common consumer (all that said above), may turn off lots of M5 buyers.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Since you love to quote posts, please find me any post where you have said anything negative about an F10 or M5.

and if I do, you will chop?

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

But you're again assuming that since I'm saying something against you I must be agreeing with the original poster or subsequent posts?

nope, you're not getting it since you're not getting it, is it a smart idea that the 535i or the 550i will handle like the M5 if one replaces them with PSS or the M5 exhaust??

ps now, if you still don't get it, post #40 is a reasonable view (there was a one liner mentioned in top gear that the F10 M5 is too expensive compared to the non M when the non M performs well; which solstice would disagree in protest) not that I agree with all that is in it eg assumptions like numbers of available M5s in dealerships mean that M drivers prefer a sportier car; did the E60 M5 sell more than the non M?? Did the E60 M5 sell more in numbers compared to the F10 M5 in a similar economic climate??

Originally Posted by solstice

Personally I hope that the relative lackluster sales of the M5 is due to that buyers of the M3 and M5 expects a purer more focused drivers car that doesn't try so hard to be an uber comfortable compromise. That M buyers wants the equivalent of Porsche's GTS and GT3 cars. Ultimate and focused driver's cars with high revving NA engines with razor sharp throttle response, an agile and communicative chassi and superior steering feedback. Instead the new M5 is more like Porsche's Turbo cars with massive power and torque in a slightly softer more luxurious setup. To me the 550 is already doing this duty to a more appealing price tag. Maybe the M5 just isn't special enough in the lineup with the out of the box and highly tunable power of the 550, add to that the minimal exterior differences with the M-sport package. Maybe the lineup would have been more complete with a more traditional "purer" M car?

simple solution, get the M3 or M4 or the M135i

http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/01/22/20...me-renderings/

As well put by one forummer - why get the much heavier 5 series if one wants a sport car??

Allthough little put forward in this forum, there is a change going on in the world.
Even in the USA there are more people now than a decade ago that are aware of the consumption of petrol and the effects of that on cars.
This means people make their purchase decision of a car also with the fuel consumpion in mind.
Besides that, it seems that sport car driving on public roads is not what it used to be.
Ask Stealth about his counter measures, things that were not needed when I was younger.
You simply can not drive an M5 the way it is build for on European roads without ending up in serious problems with the speed limiting autourities.
This is not about just a couple of fines, but about loosing your drivers license.
So there is price, consumption, owners cost and only slight usabillity that will have a negative effect on sport saloon sales numbers as for the M5.

But chear up! Things will get worse in the coming future, so get one now, while it is still possible!!

Originally Posted by bm323

and if I do, you will chop?

nope, you're not getting it since you're not getting it, is it a smart idea that the 535i or the 550i will handle like the M5 if one replaces them with PSS or the M5 exhaust??

ps now, if you still don't get it, post #40 is a reasonable view (there was a one liner mentioned in top gear that the F10 M5 is too expensive compared to the non M when the non M performs well; which solstice would disagree in protest) not that I agree with all that is in it eg assumptions like numbers of available M5s in dealerships mean that M drivers prefer a sportier car; did the E60 M5 sell more than the non M?? Did the E60 M5 sell more in numbers compared to the F10 M5 in a similar economic climate??

Not going to waste any more time. Have fun flying your fanboy flag.

Originally Posted by Sophisto

Allthough little put forward in this forum, there is a change going on in the world.
Even in the USA there are more people now than a decade ago that are aware of the consumption of petrol and the effects of that on cars.
This means people make their purchase decision of a car also with the fuel consumpion in mind.
Besides that, it seems that sport car driving on public roads is not what it used to be.
Ask Stealth about his counter measures, things that were not needed when I was younger.
You simply can not drive an M5 the way it is build for on European roads without ending up in serious problems with the speed limiting autourities.
This is not about just a couple of fines, but about loosing your drivers license.
So there is price, consumption, owners cost and only slight usabillity that will have a negative effect on sport saloon sales numbers as for the M5.

Very true. Believe it or not, it is the same over here, with TWO slight differences - one good and one bad.

Good one: this place is HUGE when compared to anything in Europe, even rural France seems like a city compared to this. That means cops have no way to control or patrol the roads so they concentrate to ones with most targets. Excellent development for drivers because who wants to drive (I mean really drive) on the roads with other cars anyway?

Bad one: if you can find a road in Europe with almost certainty there will be no cops on it, you can have at it without being worried that you might
a) get shot at through a truck window
b) get police called on you
c) suffer road rage from idiots who have no clue how to drive on a road with corners
Here, you have to worry about those things. You cannot really pass on most two-lane roads because only 1 km or more of a straight counts as "safe" for passing in this country and you better believe that you will enrage people if you pass them on a full line. Even when you pass on dotted line, you better be very careful how you do it because people might perceive your move as threatening, aggressive, driving too fast, unsafe, encroaching their space on the road or simply just generally making them uncomfortable. And they don't like that. What they DO like, though, is making their problems somebody else's problem - in this case their problem is not having a slightest clue how to drive, but they will make it yours if they can.

So, here's the question - why the eff would anybody buy any ///M car in this country? Yet, US seems to be the biggest market for them ...

Truth be told, I now believe I was stupid to buy a lowly 335i - WAY too much car to drive in this country.

But chear up! Things will get worse in the coming future, so get one now, while it is still possible!!

This is very true and might remain the ONLY reason to do something even more stupid than getting N55 3 series and keep it in US. Oh, decisions, decisions ...

I'll simplify things: In my opinion, I think the M5 is overpriced at $100k and it should be $85K loaded with perhaps the M6 at $92k (instead of $108k which is ridiculous.) Wasn't the E60 around $81k loaded back in 2005? I think they out priced themselves for this generation which means the next M3/M4's are going to start at $70k, watch.

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I'll simplify things: In my opinion, I think the M5 is overpriced at $100k and it should be $85K loaded with perhaps the M6 at $92k (instead of $108k which is ridiculous.) Wasn't the E60 around $81k loaded back in 2005? I think they out priced themselves for this generation which means the next M3/M4's are going to start at $70k, watch.

If I'm not mistaken, F10 M5 increased by $8-10k compared to E60 which is "ok."

However, you got more "exclusivity" with E60 M5 such as engine that shared parts with F1 race cars, full leather option (was not available on non-M E60), exclusive steering wheel, body kits that were very different from non-m E60, etc.

E60 M5 and E92 M3 engines won engine of the year 4-5 times in a row.

This turbo F10 M5 engine didn't win even in its 1st year.

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

I'll simplify things: In my opinion, I think the M5 is overpriced at $100k and it should be $85K loaded with perhaps the M6 at $92k (instead of $108k which is ridiculous.) Wasn't the E60 around $81k loaded back in 2005? I think they out priced themselves for this generation which means the next M3/M4's are going to start at $70k, watch.

I agree to some extent but you need to factor in inflation/cost of living adjustment over the years. Like you said, I think one reason is the F10 M5 is overpriced and at $100-$110k, buyers have other options. The M5 targets a specific niche of buyers and this has always been the case even with past generations. M5s will not sell in the volume of regular F10s. I'm not sure why dealers would order so much M5s in their dealer stock. They may very well be cancelled orders. I don't think a dealer will have 17 535s in stock at a given moment let alone just M5s.

I think the M6 CG will suffer more. That car is way overpriced. Buyers in that range have much more options elsewhere.

I just built out an M5 and basically the only option I gave a crap about was the 20"s for $1300 so my MSRP would be around $94k, so I assume a buyer would get at least 7.5% off of that so around $87k is what I'd expect to spend. Then I go back and notice that unless I bump it up to $100k and add the "Executive Package" I can't get heated seats, sat radio nor even smartphone integration (which I assume is just bluetooth) so now, I'm pissed again and have to also bundle in a bunch of options I don't want.

I'd prefer to pick and choose a few options out of the exec package......I also don't like the lack of color choices and I really don't like the blue brakes, maybe that's part of their probs.

M6 was pushing $116k.......sorry at that price I am getting a 911. Here is my reasonably optioned 911S (gotta have a ducktail) for $110k that I would buy all day long over an M6.

Wait a few years and the M5 will be popular in the CPO market.