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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 02-01-2013, 05:37 PM
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525isport 525isport is offline
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m62 engine will not start please help

Hi every one i posted this in the e38 section but no help over there there .

My dad has bought a 2001 735i sport model (same as the 540i and 740i ) V8 engine . but we cant get it started . the car was working fine until the engine and transmission along with the suspension and wiring was removed from the car for repairs to the body to be done and now ,after four months we put everything back together ,the car will start for one or two seconds and then die and im getting engine failsafe program on the display and four codes pending

P0120 throttle / pedal position sensor A circuit pending

P0123 throttle / pedal position sensor A circuit high input pending

P0223 throttle / pedal position sensor / switch B circuit high input

P0103 mass or volume air flow circuit high input pending

the first three CANNOT clear with my Acton cp9580 scanner ,but the last one will clear and return after the first attempt to start .

i have done a lot of searching and found similar problems but no real answers , i don't even know which of the sensors is A or B the pedal or the throttle body itself . i have looked for corrosion at the temp sensor on the thermostat (none ) checked and rechecked the connections at the dme and all other wiring . Charged the battery check oil levels .filled up more gas in the tank . checked fuses (in the trunk and under the dash) any help in this matter will be great
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2013, 02:52 PM
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i changed the battery today but still no difference . we even tried a new key that we ordered the same time we bought the car
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:47 AM
Sumotide17 Sumotide17 is offline
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This may sound like a ridiculous suggestion, but you want to ENSURE that the electrical connector harness is clean and properly seated. e.g. The MAF connector. If you clear the code and it stays cleared then you have solved that issue.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:56 PM
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no man, its not ridiculous that is what i been tying to do , but i feel im missing a wire or connection somewhere . i will re check all my previous attempts in the wiring
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:54 PM
HTK12 HTK12 is offline
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The car will run just fine even without the MAF, you can disconnect it to see if it makes any difference. I assume the issue is some loose/forgotten connector somewhere. Have you checked all the grounds in the engine bay?
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:53 PM
Dackelone Dackelone is offline
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Have you checked the crankshaft TDC(or OT) sensor? That is really the only sensors the DME needs for the engine to run.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2013, 06:30 PM
Sumotide17 Sumotide17 is offline
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Dackelone brings up a very good point IMO.

I received the engine failsafe message a few times due to not properly securing the ground cable to the battery post after performing maintenance on my 540I. I means it was connected but not properly. I have learned from Bimmerfest forums that this may be a contributing reason for getting an engine failsafe message. The engine failsafe message has appeared for other members after disconnecting or installing a new battery. I would tighten the bolts at the negative battery post and at the vehicle ground point in the trunk. Just tighten them up a little. 5 min job.

Also, check to make sure (1) that your ground strap in each spark plug well is connected and not pinched or folded (2) press in the connectors to each coilpack. I have not looked up the codes that you mentioned, but it appears to me that it is originating with commands to/from the throttle body and MAF. I'm not sure if you have electronic throttle or mechanical but if it is an electronic throttle I would double check the wires/connections to the Throttle Body. Maybe even jiggle it while trying to start it.

You could also try and leave the key in start position, but not actually start it, for 30 sec to see how the computer reads things.

Last edited by Sumotide17; 02-03-2013 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:30 AM
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525isport 525isport is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTK12 View Post
The car will run just fine even without the MAF, you can disconnect it to see if it makes any difference. I assume the issue is some loose/forgotten connector somewhere. Have you checked all the grounds in the engine bay?
i have tried it with the maf disconnected (made no difference) but when i clear the maf code it makes a better attempt to start , it sounds like it will stay running but then dies like before. i also suspect a forgotten connector but i did not remove the engine from the car so im just trying to guess what the guy removed and where it was removed from .
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Have you checked the crankshaft TDC(or OT) sensor? That is really the only sensors the DME needs for the engine to run.
i have not checked this . im guessing its on the transmission housing ,right? im not familiar with the M62 engine at all . i know the M54 much better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumotide17 View Post
Dackelone brings up a very good point IMO.

I received the engine failsafe message a few times due to not properly securing the ground cable to the battery post after performing maintenance on my 540I. I means it was connected but not properly. I have learned from Bimmerfest forums that this may be a contributing reason for getting an engine failsafe message. The engine failsafe message has appeared for other members after disconnecting or installing a new battery. I would tighten the bolts at the negative battery post and at the vehicle ground point in the trunk. Just tighten them up a little. 5 min job.

Also, check to make sure (1) that your ground strap in each spark plug well is connected and not pinched or folded (2) press in the connectors to each coilpack. I have not looked up the codes that you mentioned, but it appears to me that it is originating with commands to/from the throttle body and MAF. I'm not sure if you have electronic throttle or mechanical but if it is an electronic throttle I would double check the wires/connections to the Throttle Body. Maybe even jiggle it while trying to start it.

You could also try and leave the key in start position, but not actually start it, for 30 sec to see how the computer reads things.
when i changed the battery i did clean and tighten both + & - cables .from what ive read about the engine failsafe program the car should still start but will be very underpowered ( i could be wrong on this )
i will have to check the ground straps on the spark plugs and coils . i do have the electronic throttle body and i have been through the wiring and the plug and its clean ,tight and shows no sign of damage or corrosion . but will the car start if the throttle body is bad ? will the codes ive posted cause the car not to start ? i just dont know and i dont want to spend money on a new one and have the same problem .

thanks for all the ideas guys i just cant understand why the car would start just for those one or two seconds and just die . for the two seconds it does run is sounds good no misfire, no knocking in the engine ,no smoke or leaks of any kind .
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2013, 02:33 PM
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well we found a guy that works for BMW here and the car will be sent on a tow truck to him for further scans and tests . he said it should be running by the weekend . i think he knows exactly whats wrong with it but does not want to say .
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:33 PM
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well the car still isn't working , the guy suspects the crank sensor and or the DME . but he doesnt sound too sure of his diagnosis. haveing spoke to some other BMW mechs they think a loose/broken wire or missed connection . not really sure what to do because they say the 740i DME from the USA will not work in the car . can anyone confirm this ?
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:23 PM
HTK12 HTK12 is offline
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Originally Posted by 525isport View Post
well the car still isn't working , the guy suspects the crank sensor and or the DME . but he doesnt sound too sure of his diagnosis. haveing spoke to some other BMW mechs they think a loose/broken wire or missed connection . not really sure what to do because they say the 740i DME from the USA will not work in the car . can anyone confirm this ?
It will work, might need to be coded. The issue will be connecting EWS to a different DME. BMW dealer can't do it and most indies can't either. With BMW scanner 1.4 you should be able to do it, but you might want to confirm it, because there are differences depending on the year of manufacturing. If the DME is missing the crank position sensor signal you will get a code telling you it's missing, EWS issue will also give you a fault code telling about it. Have you used anything else to read the error codes than Actron cp9580?

FIY failed crank position sensor will prevent spark & fuel. Usually crank positon sensor that is failing will start to give issues when it warms up, not few seconds after start.
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2013, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HTK12 View Post
It will work, might need to be coded. The issue will be connecting EWS to a different DME. BMW dealer can't do it and most indies can't either. With BMW scanner 1.4 you should be able to do it, but you might want to confirm it, because there are differences depending on the year of manufacturing. If the DME is missing the crank position sensor signal you will get a code telling you it's missing, EWS issue will also give you a fault code telling about it. Have you used anything else to read the error codes than Actron cp9580?

FIY failed crank position sensor will prevent spark & fuel. Usually crank positon sensor that is failing will start to give issues when it warms up, not few seconds after start.
thanks for the info this helps alot .. im not sure what scanner the guy used but he was getting the same codes as i did with my Actron . but his was able to test the throttle body so we know its working .

we may send the DME to a local repair shop to see if there is a problem with it . not sure if they are able to fix it or not ..
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2013, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 525isport View Post
thanks for the info this helps alot .. im not sure what scanner the guy used but he was getting the same codes as i did with my Actron . but his was able to test the throttle body so we know its working .

we may send the DME to a local repair shop to see if there is a problem with it . not sure if they are able to fix it or not ..
He also got P-codes? Did he test that the gas pedal is giving correct values? Might be time for you to buy a diagnostic cable. One that works with DIS (aka GT1), INPA etc. costs $20-50 depending on where you buy it from. Look for it on ebay, amazon etc. Chinese sellers on ebay usually sell it cheaper than others, but it takes quite a while to arrive from China. These cables are usually called INPA cable.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:19 PM
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just to update this .. the car still isn't working , the car has been rechecked for bad connections and missing connections (none found) it has been re scanned with another scanner (not sure witch one) and the guy isnt really sure whats wrong with it (he said the key needs to be re synced so they tried that and the key stopped working the power locks and trunk . we brought the car back home and ive re synced both keys and the power locks work again .

when we try to start the car and spray carb cleaner in the intake it runs fine but no throttle (acceleration using the pedal ) it just runs at idle smooth and clean . i want to buy a professional BMW scanner that can code a new DME and whatever else i need to do . what do the pros use ?? i have a 2003 525i and this 2001 735i i would like to be able to take jobs also to pay off the scanner so if i could scan other models and years that would be good to
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:58 PM
HTK12 HTK12 is offline
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Originally Posted by 525isport View Post
just to update this .. the car still isn't working , the car has been rechecked for bad connections and missing connections (none found) it has been re scanned with another scanner (not sure witch one) and the guy isnt really sure whats wrong with it (he said the key needs to be re synced so they tried that and the key stopped working the power locks and trunk . we brought the car back home and ive re synced both keys and the power locks work again .

when we try to start the car and spray carb cleaner in the intake it runs fine but no throttle (acceleration using the pedal ) it just runs at idle smooth and clean . i want to buy a professional BMW scanner that can code a new DME and whatever else i need to do . what do the pros use ?? i have a 2003 525i and this 2001 735i i would like to be able to take jobs also to pay off the scanner so if i could scan other models and years that would be good to
Just get the INPA cable I mentioned earlier. INPA was BMW factory tool when they manufactured the e39. With the cable you can use other BMW tools like DIS (aka GT-1), NCS Expert etc. I really don't know a better tool for DIY mechanic. It's cheap yet it will do anything you'll need. INPA cable (K+DCAN) should work pretty much with all BMW between 96-2013. To use it on new BMW you'll need to update some files, but for your current cars it will work just fine out of the box.

I use INPA to read codes and code modules with NCS Expert. It's a nice way to get to know other BMW enthiuast on your area and help them. I also got DIS, but I find it too slow for my taste.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:48 PM
timarnold timarnold is offline
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I did have something similar once on my 525i. The problem was that when I plugged the electronic throttle body connector back into the throttle body, I inadvertenly bent two of the pins on the throttle body. I received similar error messages, the car ran poorly and it went into failsafe mode. I removed the throttle body, very carefully straightened the pins, very carefully plugged back in the connector and everything worked perfectly. It was impossible to see the pins without removing the throttle body. I think it may be easier on the M62 to see.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:06 PM
SpeedForceRacin SpeedForceRacin is offline
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Originally Posted by 525isport View Post
just to update this .. the car still isn't working , the car has been rechecked for bad connections and missing connections (none found) it has been re scanned with another scanner (not sure witch one) and the guy isnt really sure whats wrong with it (he said the key needs to be re synced so they tried that and the key stopped working the power locks and trunk . we brought the car back home and ive re synced both keys and the power locks work again .

when we try to start the car and spray carb cleaner in the intake it runs fine but no throttle (acceleration using the pedal ) it just runs at idle smooth and clean . i want to buy a professional BMW scanner that can code a new DME and whatever else i need to do . what do the pros use ?? i have a 2003 525i and this 2001 735i i would like to be able to take jobs also to pay off the scanner so if i could scan other models and years that would be good to
Any luck solving your problem.I am experiencing the exact same problem. We have quadruple checked everything and even replaced TB,replace pedal potentiometer sensor,replaced, this,replaced that.Checked every connection.checked every relevant wire in the system from TB to pedal sensor to DME with voltmeter to check continuity.Absolutely nothing wrong! Car will run rough and die right away and we cannot clear the TB or pedal codes!
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Old 04-25-2013, 08:06 AM
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525isport 525isport is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTK12 View Post
Just get the INPA cable I mentioned earlier. INPA was BMW factory tool when they manufactured the e39. With the cable you can use other BMW tools like DIS (aka GT-1), NCS Expert etc. I really don't know a better tool for DIY mechanic. It's cheap yet it will do anything you'll need. INPA cable (K+DCAN) should work pretty much with all BMW between 96-2013. To use it on new BMW you'll need to update some files, but for your current cars it will work just fine out of the box.

I use INPA to read codes and code modules with NCS Expert. It's a nice way to get to know other BMW enthiuast on your area and help them. I also got DIS, but I find it too slow for my taste.
so the cable is a stand alone tool that works with a laptop for display like this one on ebayhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-USB-OBD-...-/330606867879 or this one from amazon http://www.amazon.com/Ediabas-Interf...rds=INPA+cableif this is what your talking about them i will have to get one

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Originally Posted by timarnold View Post
I did have something similar once on my 525i. The problem was that when I plugged the electronic throttle body connector back into the throttle body, I inadvertenly bent two of the pins on the throttle body. I received similar error messages, the car ran poorly and it went into failsafe mode. I removed the throttle body, very carefully straightened the pins, very carefully plugged back in the connector and everything worked perfectly. It was impossible to see the pins without removing the throttle body. I think it may be easier on the M62 to see.
i did check the pins many times and no problems found
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedForceRacin View Post
Any luck solving your problem.I am experiencing the exact same problem. We have quadruple checked everything and even replaced TB,replace pedal potentiometer sensor,replaced, this,replaced that.Checked every connection.checked every relevant wire in the system from TB to pedal sensor to DME with voltmeter to check continuity.Absolutely nothing wrong! Car will run rough and die right away and we cannot clear the TB or pedal codes!
still looking for the fault
i spoke to someone in england and he said the voltage at the gas pedal should be 5v and im getting some pins a 5-6 v and some 10-11v so im not sure if this is the problem.and im not sure how to correct it
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  #19  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:43 AM
HTK12 HTK12 is offline
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so the cable is a stand alone tool that works with a laptop for display like this one on ebayhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-USB-OBD-...-/330606867879 or this one from amazon http://www.amazon.com/Ediabas-Interf...rds=INPA+cableif this is what your talking about them i will have to get one
That is excatly what I'm talking about. You hook it up to computer and installed the software. There are videon on youtube how to use it, so you can see what it looks like. The ebay cable works with BMW's from 96-06, because that cable only has K-line (You'll need the 20 to 16 pin adapter to use it on 96-00 BMW's, it costs ~$5). The amazon cable got K+D-CAN, which means that you can diagnose BMW's 96-13, if you update your software for recent models (Same goes for this one, to use it on 96-00 you'll need the 20 to 16 pin adapter). Since you only got 01 and 03 model you will be able to anything the dealer can with either one of those cables.

The Ebay seller claims to have self installer, if it works as the seller claims it would make the first time install a breeze. Down side is that you can't use it on 07-> cars. Would be quite interesting to hear how well that self installer works. Would be quite useful for people that don't like to mess around with installing the software.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:07 AM
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Thanks HTK12 i will try the amazon one because i have an acount with them and i dont have paypal or an ebay account to buy the other one. + its cheaper too . it will just take so long to reach me here in Trinidad
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:30 PM
VDiamond VDiamond is offline
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I had a 1998 bmw 740il that i changed the engine in. It was the M62 but it has a physical throttle cable, in 1999 they upgraded to electronic and got rid of it.

Because you did not have this issue before, I would say that your problem is in the wiring. A mistake I made when putting together the engine wiring harness with my 740 is that, right around the intake area there were two wires about the same length with the same style plugs that I mixed up, and it was causing the same problem. When the car cannot read the "mass air flow sensor" the computer turns the car off seconds after it starts. Also because you don't have physical throttle cables, but are getting codes to check the throttle, I am not sure how this newer engine works, but again would argue that it's an electrical issue.

If you have the time, go through and unplug the engine harness, and then replug it in from beginning. If I am completely wrong here, then you can still check the wire to make sure they aren't broken, and everything has a good connection.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:30 PM
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I had a 1998 bmw 740il that i changed the engine in. It was the M62 but it has a physical throttle cable, in 1999 they upgraded to electronic and got rid of it.

Because you did not have this issue before, I would say that your problem is in the wiring. A mistake I made when putting together the engine wiring harness with my 740 is that, right around the intake area there were two wires about the same length with the same style plugs that I mixed up, and it was causing the same problem. When the car cannot read the "mass air flow sensor" the computer turns the car off seconds after it starts. Also because you don't have physical throttle cables, but are getting codes to check the throttle, I am not sure how this newer engine works, but again would argue that it's an electrical issue.

If you have the time, go through and unplug the engine harness, and then replug it in from beginning. If I am completely wrong here, then you can still check the wire to make sure they aren't broken, and everything has a good connection.
well the engine & trans was removed with the sub frame and the full harness intact and was unplugged from the DME and all wires wrapped in plastic bags and taped up to prevent water and other debris from getting in . the only wires that were removed were the battery cable to the starter,near the transmission and one or two ground wires on the right side of the engine to the body and two on the left side to the body near a large round plug on the shock tower.

but i will look for the plugs you talked about for damage or loose connections . i will try anything at this point and recheck anything if needed
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:10 PM
VDiamond VDiamond is offline
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Originally Posted by 525isport View Post
well the engine & trans was removed with the sub frame and the full harness intact and was unplugged from the DME and all wires wrapped in plastic bags and taped up to prevent water and other debris from getting in . the only wires that were removed were the battery cable to the starter,near the transmission and one or two ground wires on the right side of the engine to the body and two on the left side to the body near a large round plug on the shock tower.

but i will look for the plugs you talked about for damage or loose connections . i will try anything at this point and recheck anything if needed
Ohh, I see. try to fix the airflow issue.
At the time I was having issues, my brother had the same car, with same engine. I asked him to come over, and then just plugged some of my things into his sensors to see if it was the problem. I am not sure whether you have this luxury, but that how I found out my air sensor went bad.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:30 PM
Gootz4u Gootz4u is offline
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Hello, did you fix your car? My is doing the same thing. I replaced the throttle body and replaced the fuel pump and it still does not work. I am getting P0120, P0123, P0223. I wondering if it is my gas pedal.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:26 PM
SpeedForceRacin SpeedForceRacin is offline
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Problem solved

After exhausting lots of resources, we finally fixed our issue. We had replaced tb, pedal position sensor, checked connetions, etc..... The last thing on the list was the Dme. The driver that controls the throttlebody in the Dme took a crap. So we replace Dme, Ews and the car runs like a champ.
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