Mid May ED itinerary. Suggestions appreciated:-)

Guys:
Thanks for all the advice thus far. Very helpful. Went ahead and placed my order on Friday (2013 335i, Imp Blue, ZLL, SB Leather, ZPP, ZTP, HS). Still waiting on confirmation, production number etc, but thought would go ahead and post a tentative itinerary and solicit advice/suggestion. Details still being worked upon and so any suggestions and recommendations greatly appreciated.
Also, my wife and I would be traveling with our 20 month old daughter so any advice on how to best travel in Europe with a kid would be appreciated.


May 16: Depart Washington DC
May 17th: Arrive in Munich, chill in Munich
May 18th: Pick up car from the Welt (assuming I get my first preference in pick up dates). Leave for Salzburg late afternoon, chill in Salzburg
May 19th: Spend the day in Salzburg, see Eagles nest, drive around for a bit in and around Salzburg (would welcome suggestions here)
May 20th: Leave for Vienna (early am after breakfast), chill in Vienna all day, walk around, lunch etc..
May 21st: Enjoy Vienna in the am, depart for Prague after lunch, stay in Prague
May 22nd: Stay in Prague (welcome suggestions on things to do)

May 23 to 26: Spend time driving the Romantic Road, stay at non touristy Guesthouses/BB's and enjoy the scenery and take it easy. I need advice and suggestions on towns to visit and places to stay. Tentative itinerary is as follows:

May 23: Drive to Rothenburg ob der Tauber from Prague, check in at a quaint guesthouse, enjoy the scenic town drive around a bit etc.
May 24th: Stay at Rothenburg ob der Tauber *do more of the above
May 25: Drive to Fussen, spend the day, check out the Neuschwanstein Castle (mostly from outside), relax generally, spa/massage etc
May 26th: Drive to Munich, chill at Munich
May 27th: Drop off car at Munich Airport and fly out on he 3.00 pm flight back to DC.

Is this too ambitious with a 20 month old? We did a whirlwind 5 country (Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy and Switzerland) tour in 12 days a few years back and had a blast. But of course, it was just the two of us back then :-)
Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
DD

I think you'll still likely get a morning check-in for that date, two weeks ago I was assigned 9am on the 18th so they don't appear to busy yet on that day.

As you mentioned, you're going pretty fast from place to place and as just people mentioned to me, it might not be as enjoyable but you'll get more sites in. I don't know if I'd do it with a 20 month old unless they're used to being in a car seat for 4+ hours a day which might be hard. If you do decide to go slow I'd pick to drop Prague, Vienna or Rothenburg as those IMO are the lowest site seeing return to me based on the distance/time in the car. I'm doing 1500 miles in 9 days and that's really, really pushing it to enjoy places. Around southern Germany and western Austria there are a number of great places to see. Consider getting a hotel around Garmish-partenkircken for a few days and visit Neuschwanstein, Oberammergau, several beaitufl lakes, Mieders, Hoch-Imst, Innsbruck and other locations from there. If you stay in Salzburg you can hit Eagles Nest (40 min drive) the Ice and Salt caves in Austria, great sites around Salzburg and so on without going more than an hour or so away from each of those Cities. Eagles nest opens at breakfast for example at about 9am and you could hit the Ice caves in the afternoon (last car around 3:30-4:30) and have a full 7+ hour day with less than two hours of driving for example.

Remember that many things open around 9am and are closed by 5:00 at the latest.

PS, I'll likely be at pick-up and Eagles Nest the same days, however we're doing a clockwise loop from Munich->Salzburg->Neuschwanstein area->Mulhouse France->Nurburgring->Frankfurt.

I did ED in 2005 with a then 5 and a daughter who just had turned 2 y/o. Went from Munich, to Fussen, to Baden-Baden, Lindau, Luzern, then to Prague, and back to Munich over a week period. I did not listen to advise from festers to simplify it, take a little more time at each place. I regret trying to cover so much ground, I was stressed out with the effect all the driving had on our children, particularly the 2 y/o. She may not be able to say "are we there yet" yet, but she will cry, she will poop, she will get hungry, etc.

So to answer your question, yes, I think it is too much for you with a 20 month old, but that is just me. If I had the chance to do it again, I would limit the total driving to no more than 500-600 miles during that amount of time. Went I went in 2011, drove about 1100 with an 11 and a 7 y/o, way easier and much more fun then. Your kids will grow and you will have other chances.

Another thought, if you dropoff your vehicle in Vienna, you will substantially cut down on the distance. It may complicate your air travel a bit though. Have you considered that?

My suggestions from the perspective of a frequent Germany traveler with kids:

- Decide on what you'd prefer to see A) Munich/Salzburg/Vienna/Prague or B) Munich/Salzburg/Romantic Road. I think trying to do all of it is too much if you want to go beyond scratching the surface and getting only a few token pictures. A) is more favorable for a return vacation(s) with direct flights to those cities, especially considering the big cities are not very car friendly. B) is more favorable for a car centric vacation
If you choose A):
Day 1 - 2 in Munich, leave afternoon Day 2
Day 3 - 5 Salzburg/Berchtesgaden with available activities of visiting Altstadt Salzburg/Fortress, Eagle's nest, boat ride on Königsee, salt mine tour, Rödelbahn. A good spa location is Bad Reichenhall (Leave morning of Day 5)
Day 5 - 8 Prague (leave afternoon of Day 8)
Day 8 - 11 Vienna (Drop car off on Day 9), Fly out of Vienna
If you can't do open jaw flights, compress everything by half a day somewhere and split your drive back to Munich up between late day 10 and early day 11. Also, don't forget the special requirements for Austria travel (safety vests, vignettes for autobahn, etc.)

If you choose B)
Day 1 - 2 Munich/Delivery, leave afternoon Day 2
Day 3 - 5 Berchtesgaden/Salzburg area (same activities as above) and leave morning of Day 5
Day 5 - 7 Move to Garmisch Partenkirchen area as "base camp" for exploration of castles. Visit Linderhof on day 5, Garmisch/Partenkirchen and Zugspitze on day 6 and stop by Füssen/Neuschwanstein on day 7 on your way to Rotheburg
Day 8 - 9 Rothenburg o.d. Tauber/Dinkelsbühl
Day 10 - 11 Munich, drop-off, return trip

My experience traveling with a toddler:
- flying will be tough as your daughter will want to be active/moving. We made it a point to hide a few new toys/activities in the carry on bags so that once we got settled after in flight dinner and our kids started getting fidgety, we'd pull it out and give 'em something to focus their attention. This usually kept them entertained until "bed time". We made it a point to put them in PJs to keep things as similar to regular home as possible. You all will have a hard time sleeping but funny enough, your daughter will probably adjust to the jet lag quicker than you will.
- Don't plan too much in a given day. Take the time to let your daughter "play" at various spots in your travels. We'd make it a point to find a real play ground every few days and fill in the days in between with some play time at biergartens or outdoor restaurants - if they don't have a dedicated play area, we set up in a quiet corner and let them play in the rocks for a bit.
- Keep car rides relatively short if possible (2-3 hours tops ideally) and time them for your daughter's nap schedule. This gives enough time to get an uninterrupted nap.
- Minimize hotel changes. You loose a lot of time with the constant packing/unpacking and dealing with the uncertainties of a new location (parking, where to put bags, crib, etc.).
- Even though they are bulkier, bring something a bit more capable than an umbrella stroller. The cobble stone sidewalks of most European cities will make for a rough ride in one. Ideally, bring a jogging style stroller or similar with large diameter rubber tires.

Originally Posted by gesoffen

If you choose B)
Day 1 - 2 Munich/Delivery, leave afternoon Day 2
Day 3 - 5 Berchtesgaden/Salzburg area (same activities as above) and leave morning of Day 5
Day 5 - 7 Move to Garmisch Partenkirchen area as "base camp" for exploration of castles. Visit Linderhof on day 5, Garmisch/Partenkirchen and Zugspitze on day 6 and stop by Füssen/Neuschwanstein on day 7 on your way to Rotheburg
Day 8 - 9 Rothenburg o.d. Tauber/Dinkelsbühl
Day 10 - 11 Munich, drop-off, return trip

I would choose Plan "B". Having a great car to drive allows you to visit the small towns that cannot be reached by air. Plan "A", with Prague and Vienna, can be reached by air and are not cities where you will enjoy having the use of your own car. In fact Bimmerfesters who have visited Prague by car spent a good deal of their time worrying over how to keep their car out of harms way. So, I would suggest Plan "A" be saved for your next trip when you are not doing ED.

When mapping your route from Berchtesgaden/Salzburg to Garmisch most maps will take you along autobahns, but you will be missing one of the world's prettiest roads, the German Alpenstrasse. It is dotted with scenic villages and chalets, and backdropped by Germany's Alps. It is a good road (don't think Italian), wide enough for two cars but twisty and encourages varying your speed and mild use of brakes - just what BMW recommends for the breakin period. It also lends itself to frequent stops to allow your 10 month old to get out of the car. It is far more scenic than the Romantic Road which you will see on your way up to Rothenberg.

Wow, this is great stuff guys, just what I expected.. Some awesome ideas and great advice. I completely agree with the notion that big cities are not congenial to a car-centric vacation whereas small towns and villages are just perfect for that. That's what we will probably end up doing. With that being said, its not that we come to Europe too often, so there always a desire to make the most out of a trip to that region :-) If I had to pick between Prague and Vienna, which city would you guys recommend?

Thanks,
DD

Going from Salzburg to Vienna, I would route through Hallstatt and spend an hour or two there. It is a very pretty little town, and the drive has a nice combination of scenery. You get some mountain, some two lane and some autobahn.

Originally Posted by ddas1992

With that being said, its not that we come to Europe too often, so there always a desire to make the most out of a trip to that region :-)

Strangely, you will make the most by seeing/doing less. It's just one of those space-time oddities, Europe is full of them

If I had to pick between Prague and Vienna, which city would you guys recommend?

Budapest, that way you see both in one city

Just kidding, it all depends. With a small child/children, probably Vienna. Without them, well, Czech beer is awesome. And cheap.

I have been to everything on your list of destinations. For this trip I suggest driving to Prague, see the sites there for 4 days, drive to Vienna with an overnight stop in the lakes region of Austria, spend five or more days in Vienna, and then drive back to Munich with a posible overnight stay on the way back to Munich to drop off the car and fly home. Rothenburg o.d. Tauber and Salzburg are good candidates for the next trip. I suggest purchasing the Green Michelin guides for Prague and Vienna to identify what you wish to see in advance of your trip. i beleive that is mistake to do great drive through quick visits to great European cities. a day or two in a great city is just not enough time especially with a young child. Once you do one BMW Euro Delivery you will be back again in the future. It is a great experience that you and your wife will want to repeat.

Originally Posted by neurom

Another thought, if you dropoff your vehicle in Vienna, you will substantially cut down on the distance. It may complicate your air travel a bit though. Have you considered that?

Both are truly great cities. However if forced to choose one, I would pick Vienna.

I did an ED july 2011 with a 2 year old. see my sig for a link to the ed report. that seems like a lot of driving for kiddo.

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

I did an ED july 2011 with a 2 year old. see my sig for a link to the ed report. that seems like a lot of driving for kiddo.

Thanks a lot. I tried to access the video by clicking the link but it says that the content has been blocked
:-(

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

I did an ED july 2011 with a 2 year old. see my sig for a link to the ed report. that seems like a lot of driving for kiddo.

Also, what was your solution to the car seat conundrum? I believe the general advice is to carry your own car seat and gate check it along with the stroller. Is that what most people who traveled with a kid did? Are there other options?

Thanks again,
DD

Originally Posted by ddas1992

Also, what was your solution to the car seat conundrum? I believe the general advice is to carry your own car seat and gate check it along with the stroller. Is that what most people who traveled with a kid did? Are there other options?

Thanks again,
DD

We've checked the our car seat as regular baggage (it doesn't count against your total number) and gate checked the stroller. We usually fly United or Lufthansa and they have large plastic bags at the check in counter that fit car seats to keep belts, straps, etc from snagging during baggage handling. You can take the car seat on the plane if it is FAA approved (most are not) but I wouldn't recommend it - too bulky and your kid will be more comfortable in the regular seat.

The only minor glitch with bringing your own seat is that many car seats don't have European certification (TüV stickers or similar). You can look up to see if yours is approved. If not, you can take and use it anyway (risk is very very very slim that you'll get called out on it as long as you follow general guidelines for age/size appropriate seats).

You're other option is to buy one upon arrival to Munich. There are several locations in Munich where you could purchase one and you can save it as a souvenir and/or use it upon your return.

I've never been a fan of renting car seats because of the cost (10€/day x 10 days will buy you a nice seat) and mostly the uncertainty (will it be there, is it the right size, do I know how to use it, etc.).

Now that I'm typing this, I recall some one here on the 'fest left a car seat at the Hotel Kempinski (at the airport) for other festers in need of a car seat. You could contact the hotel to see if it is still available and if its appropriate.

Originally Posted by ddas1992

Also, what was your solution to the car seat conundrum? I believe the general advice is to carry your own car seat and gate check it along with the stroller. Is that what most people who traveled with a kid did? Are there other options?

Thanks again,
DD

We took our own car seat. The last thing I wanted to deal with was installing an unfamiliar seat in an unfamiliar car or having my daughter have problems with a new seat.

we also have used this quite a bit.
http://www.amazon.com/Childress-Ulti...r+seat+carrier

Thanks guys. Got an email from my CA with my production number and a confirmation on the pick up date. Now the fun part starts, planning the Euro Trip :-) Is Lufthansa offering any good deals on BMW ED?

Lufthansa offered me 5% off the tickets is all, they said it's either 10% or 5% now for ED discounts. I ended up using orbitz and booking via United (breaks guitars) for my path as that was less and had better timers than Lufthansa, although I'm sure the last connection is a Lufthansa flight as they and United are partners.

Originally Posted by edx1

...., although I'm sure the last connection is a Lufthansa flight as they and United are partners.

Depending on your "home" airport, I wouldn't be surprised if your transatlantic portion was on Lufthansa metal as UA and LH are code shares. If its a UA 8xxx flight number, chances are its on a Lufthansa or other Code share plane.

Guys:
Still working on mush of the itinerary but after much thought and heeding to suggestions from fellow festers we decided to drop Vienna. I think its one of those cities that is easily accessible directly from the States and we will end up there sooner rather than later.
That means we have three days in the Salzburg area and I would love suggestions on a good base camp. What would be a good place to use as base camp among Berchtesgaden, Schönau am Königsee, Golling an der Salzach and Salzburg city itself, assuming we would like to do day trips to Hallstat and eagles nest? Also any suggestions on good mom and pop hotels/BBs/Gasthaus/Pensions etc?

Thanks,
DD

Originally Posted by ddas1992

Guys:
Still working on mush of the itinerary but after much thought and heeding to suggestions from fellow festers we decided to drop Vienna. I think its one of those cities that is easily accessible directly from the States and we will end up there sooner rather than later.
That means we have three days in the Salzburg area and I would love suggestions on a good base camp. What would be a good place to use as base camp among Berchtesgaden, Schönau am Königsee, Golling an der Salzach and Salzburg city itself, assuming we would like to do day trips to Hallstat and eagles nest? Also any suggestions on good mom and pop hotels/BBs/Gasthaus/Pensions etc?

Thanks,
DD

I think if you stay anywhere between Berchtesgaden and Salzburg you can easily get to everything with a relatively short car ride. I'm staying at a farmhouse B and B for 4 nights in that region. Bookings dot com is a pretty useful site. You can sort by criteria that are important to you and they also have a map mode.

Originally Posted by ddas1992

Guys:
Still working on mush of the itinerary but after much thought and heeding to suggestions from fellow festers we decided to drop Vienna. I think its one of those cities that is easily accessible directly from the States and we will end up there sooner rather than later.
That means we have three days in the Salzburg area and I would love suggestions on a good base camp. What would be a good place to use as base camp among Berchtesgaden, Schönau am Königsee, Golling an der Salzach and Salzburg city itself, assuming we would like to do day trips to Hallstat and eagles nest? Also any suggestions on good mom and pop hotels/BBs/Gasthaus/Pensions etc?

Thanks,
DD

We stayed in Bad Reichenhall here. Room & breakfast plan.

http://www.amber-hotels.de/en/hotel-bad-reichenhall

Indoor pool, sauna, kid friendly. Easy walk to city zentrum. Nice drive to Salzberg, Konigsee, Berchtesgaden.

If you are looking for an inexpensive place that is good value for money try the Gasthaus Kugelmuhle in Marktschellenberg. It is very conveniently located for visiting Berchtesgaden, the Konigsee and Salzburg. It has safe parking and the whole family seem to be Bimmer Fans. Ask for a mountainview room with a balcony. It will cost less than $100/night. We stayed there two years ago and will be staying there again this year. It is a solid 3 star place with a good breakfast included. Here is their website:
http://www.gasthaus-kugelmuehle.de/

Guys:
Thanks a lot for all the feedback. After much thought, I have decided to tweak the itinerary a bit (added an extra day and took away a one stop). Although, still quite a bit hectic, this now looks to be a much more manageable trip with a 20 month old than the last one. As always feedback is appreciated, especially around things to do in each of the stops

May 15: Take the 10 pm Lufthansa flight out of Washington DC
May 16th: Arrive in Munich at around noon, basically recover from jet lag and may be do a bit of sightseeing in the evening (suggestions). Staying at the Marriott Residence Inn or Courtyard Marriott (believe they are right next to each other.
May 17th: Sight seeing in Munich (suggestions-nothing too crazy or hectic, we have a 20 month old :-))
May 18th: Pick up car from the Welt-pick up time of 10.30 am, do the museum and the factory tour, be done by 2 pm ish? Leave for the Salzburg area. Staying at a bed and breakfast in Schönau am Königsee which will be our base for the next 3 days. We will try and squeeze lake Konigsee on that day if everyone can muster the strength and energy.
May 19th: Spend the day in Salzburg, relax at Berchtesgaden in the evening (think spa etc)
May 20th: Day trip to Hallstat, lunch at Hallstat, eagles nest on the way back
May 21st: Leave Schönau am Königsee after breakfast and drive to Prague with a stop over at Cesky Krumlov for lunch and some sightseeing (~5 1/2 hours drive in total). Probably reach Prague by 5 pm ish.... Will most likely be dead tired, if energy level permits will do some walking around the city center pre-dinner, else call it a day
May 22nd: Stay in Prague, do sightseeing in and around city center (suggestions?)
May 23: Drive to Rothenburg ODT from Prague (little more than a 3 hour drive). Check in at a B&B, do some local sight seeing.
May 24th: Stay at Rothenburg, do some more driving around in the area, local attractions . Suggestions.
May 25th: Drive to the Fussen area, actually staying at Hotel Muller at Hohenschwangau, try and do one castle (mostly from outside, don't think we will be up for any detailed castle tour with kiddo), drive around a bit in the area, take pics, try local food etc (suggestions, heard Hotel Muller has a killer restaurant)
May 26th: Drive around the area, try and check out the other castle, try some more local food etc (suggestions)
May 27th: Drive to Munich, drop the car and take the 3.30 pm back to DC

Let me know what you guys think. Also, suggestions on what to do at each of the stops would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
DD

I believe BMW welt doesn't do factory tours on Saturday or Sunday just FYI.

There are three Marriotts I believe, Residents Inn east of Marienplatz by the science Museum, Marriott Courtyard west of Marienplatz by the rail station, and Marriott Munich east of BMW Welt. The City Center one near the rail station is the easiest to walk around and appears to be the easiest to see things near Marienplatz and subway to get to bmw welt IMO but the Residents Inn is a nice location if you want to go to the Museum, and I think only the Marriott west of BMW Welt offers free parking for ED guests??

There's the Hohenschwangau castle you can do that's just down the street from Muller as well and if you have time as they schedule the two castles tours 2 hours apart but require you to pick up the tickets 1h before the first tour which is always Hohenschwangau. Hohenschwangau was where Ludwig II grew up and lived and seems nice from the few pictures I've found. I also noticed Linderhof castle was on the other side of the mountains, 40 minutes away, and has some amazing grounds and grotto to see and some interesting history of its palace. In most of my castle research, most don't have nice grounds so if that might interest you it seems a good use of time without a huge amount of walking like other castles require. Mirabell palace grounds in Salzburg are also nice as well and quick to see and there's plenty of history with Motzart and other people nearby as well.

I'm in Salzburg on the 19th/20th as I think I mentioned earlier, and will also be doing Hellbrunn Palace fountains tour and Eisriesenwelt and will also be staying in Oberammagau the next day to do the castles I've mentioned as well as Garmish-Partenkirchen before we head to Switzerland.