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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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Old 02-05-2013, 08:42 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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2013 LCI 7 Facelift Rear Turn Signal Lamps are Red!

Say it isn't so! BMW cost cutting includes replacement of the safer Amber rear turn signal lamps with Red ones on the LCI 7!

Last edited by dbs600; 02-05-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:40 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:24 PM
alpbmw alpbmw is offline
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I should know better, but were they amber on pre LCI F01?

I'm a big supporter of amber turn signals. Coming from Europe I always had a hard time understanding why the US turn signals were the same color as the tail and break lights...
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:51 PM
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ChrisF01 ChrisF01 is offline
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Originally Posted by alpbmw View Post
I should know better, but were they amber on pre LCI F01?

I'm a big supporter of amber turn signals. Coming from Europe I always had a hard time understanding why the US turn signals were the same color as the tail and break lights...
Yes the 09-12 have amber/orange LED back turn signals.

No difference to me personally, it helps that they're LEDs, so they're instant and bright.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:35 AM
Deutsch100 Deutsch100 is offline
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Originally Posted by alpbmw View Post
I should know better, but were they amber on pre LCI F01?

I'm a big supporter of amber turn signals. Coming from Europe I always had a hard time understanding why the US turn signals were the same color as the tail and break lights...
Red rear turn signals are AWFUL!!! I used to not buy a car, if the rear turn signals were red...but then BMW, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, Audi, Porsche...all started doing it.

The 09-12 7 Series had bright, orange rear LED turn signals. The part was made and available for years....How much cheaper can a red LED turn signal change them?

At least most German cars, or high end models, use LED. Red bulb signals are horrific, and in sunlight, are all but invisible. SO dangerous.

Has anyone noticed the all new 3 Series is using RED BULB rear turn signals, while the old model used LED turn signals after it's facelift? I Cannot!!! believe BMW would use rear turn bulbs on a new model, when the old model at least had red LED turn signals!

The first time my family from Germany came to stay with us, and they drove from Los Angeles to Long Beach for a day trip....The FIRST thing they asked us was: "Was ist los mit den verdammten, roten Amerikanischen Signalen"!!!!
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:12 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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No difference to me personally, it helps that they're LEDs, so they're instant and bright.
Chased down a new 7 last night to confirm it wasn't a 5. There was a huge difference with the red signals, as they were more difficult to differentiate when the brake lights were lit (I'd say I was between 500 and 750 feet away); strange enough, they even looked cheaper too.

Last edited by dbs600; 02-06-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:48 AM
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Die Wolfe Die Wolfe is offline
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Yes the 09-12 have amber/orange LED back turn signals.

No difference to me personally, it helps that they're LEDs, so they're instant and bright.
x2...I always thought cars with red, white AND orange lights in their tails looked so cluttered.

Plus, I doubt it makes that huge of a difference in safety. I'm pretty sure accidents aren't happening just to cars with red turn signals...especially in these modern days with LEDs and better bulbs. Besides, if it's that dangerous, then maybe the person is obviously following too closely or driving too fast for conditions. Glasses also help for those who are geriatric! Lol
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:29 PM
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It used to be that both the cheapest and the most expensive bimmer that you could buy would have amber rear turn signals: the 1 and the 7 series.

After the F01 7 series LCI, I guess now you have to buy a 1 series to get amber rear turn signals. Soon that will be gone as well as I expect BMWNA to make the 2 series with red signals.

C'est la vie.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:12 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:36 AM
f01driver f01driver is offline
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I prefer the amber's myself and when owned a e92 I remember the US version of the LCI lights were red and the EU tails were amber's. The EU lights as you can imagine were selling for a premium.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:46 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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What really bothers me is that from a rear 3/4 angle you see both the red rear turn signals and the amber repeater markers, now housed on the side view mirror tips; just doesn't look right to see both red and amber blinking together...
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:08 AM
bastula bastula is offline
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Originally Posted by dbs600 View Post
What really bothers me is that from a rear 3/4 angle you see both the red rear turn signals and the amber repeater markers, now housed on the side view mirror tips; just doesn't look right to see both red and amber blinking together...
Yes that doesn't make sense at all. I wonder who decides these changes at BMWNA? Do they do any market research to find out what customers like? I know when I bought my E92, I asked the dealer about it and he said he preferred amber himself, but there was nothing he could do about it.

Regarding my infrequent posts, lets just say I was a lurker for a long time and only decided to post on issues I feel strongly about.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:33 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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From what I understand, it's a matter of cost, where red lamps are less expensive due to supply and demand (rear lamp assemblies using far more red lamps than amber ones on a whole).

Last edited by dbs600; 02-19-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:43 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Is there a safety benefit to using red over amber? "This same study compared different light colors for glare and detection time under both daylight and night conditions. While red and blue both compared favorably with amber for glare under various conditions" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_vehicle_lighting

I can imagine some conclusive internal testing at BMW was conducted, and that perhaps red had a marginal benefit of reaction time and observance over amber.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:38 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Amber is safer than red.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:18 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Based on what study? Is that fact or opinion?

Isn't the universal indication of a warning a flashing red light? So a person would at least subliminally be more alert to a flashing red light? Wouldn't you be less likely to be rear ended at a turn lane by a flashing red indicator light than a flashing amber indicator light?
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:35 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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Study linked-to in second post of thread: "The principal finding of the report is that amber signals show a 5.3% effectiveness in reducing involvement in two-vehicle crashes where a lead vehicle is rear-struck in the act of turning left, turning right, merging into traffic, changing lanes, or entering/leaving a parking space. The advantage of amber rear turn signals is shown to be statistically significant."

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Old 02-19-2013, 04:08 PM
bastula bastula is offline
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Based on what study? Is that fact or opinion?

Isn't the universal indication of a warning a flashing red light? So a person would at least subliminally be more alert to a flashing red light? Wouldn't you be less likely to be rear ended at a turn lane by a flashing red indicator light than a flashing amber indicator light?
Not if the brake lamps were already lit up at the same brightness as the turn signals. I would imagine the different (amber in this case) colored signals would be differentiated enough for you to see them.

In some respects, to follow this logic, it might be better to use combination brake lamp/signals with LEDs like Audi and Cadillac uses. I personally am not a fan of this is a single point of failure both purposes (brakes & signals).
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:02 PM
Deutsch100 Deutsch100 is offline
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Amber is safer than red.

Yes. Simply said and 100% true. Look at Europe, and especially German with high speeds, fog, snow, heavy rain!!!
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:04 PM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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In some respects, to follow this logic, it might be better to use combination brake lamp/signals with LEDs like Audi and Cadillac uses. I personally am not a fan of this is a single point of failure both purposes (brakes & signals).
Agreed and while not the ideal, Audi also employs same up front, where the bright white LED daytime running lamps of many models temporarily turn off, but only on the side the turn signal is activated - which looks strange.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:01 PM
bastula bastula is offline
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Agreed and while not the ideal, Audi also employs same up front, where the bright white LED daytime running lamps of many models temporarily turn off, but only on the side the turn signal is activated - which looks strange.
Ah yes, the infamous winking. I heard that this is enabled only on the North American models.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:25 AM
BaranE BaranE is offline
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If anyones willing exchange their reds with my ambers PM me. IMHO it's safer to have what the eye is not accustomed to. In US red ones are the norm so amber ones stand out, here in Europe amber is the norm so red ones stand outÁ
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:50 PM
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From what I understand, it's a matter of cost, where red lamps are less expensive due to supply and demand (rear lamp assemblies using far more red lamps than amber ones on a whole).
I seriously doubt it is cost related. It would be less expensive to use the same light assembly around the world. It's just BMWNA stupidity.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:51 AM
dbs600 dbs600 is offline
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I seriously doubt it is cost related. It would be less expensive to use the same light assembly around the world. It's just BMWNA stupidity.
Something like this is not done on a whim, and if cheaper to retain the amber bulbs, I'm sure they would have. I believe this is economies of scale related, where more red LED bulbs are manufactured by suppliers and more are bought by BMW.

Can we confirm whether or not the actual rear lamp assemblies between American and European models are different? Maybe just the bulbs are different and those who prefer amber can purchase replacement LED bulbs?

Last edited by dbs600; 02-25-2013 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 02-25-2013, 08:55 AM
bastula bastula is offline
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Something like this is not done on a whim, and if cheaper to retain the amber bulbs, I'm sure they would have. I believe this is economies of scale related, where more red LED bulbs are manufactured by suppliers and more are bought by BMW.

Can we confirm whether or not the actual rear lamp assemblies between American and European models are different? Maybe just the bulbs are different and those who prefer amber can purchase replacement LED bulbs?
The part numbers are different between models. They actually have to have separate clusters of LEDs for the different colors. Also look to the incandescent models such as the 3 series, which have different plastics. The US models have red plastics with a clear bulb (like the brake light). The rest of the world models get a darker tinted plastic for the turn signal, with a different color bulb in it, to create the amber light.
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