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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:52 AM
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floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
My opinion, the answer is "nothing makes a major difference".

The bigger variables will be color, mileage, condition, ...
I totally agree with BJ here. If you price used cars through any online calculator (NADA, Edmunds, Cars.com, Autotrader), you'll note huge differences that mileage and condition make. They totally swamp any dollar difference that options make.

Keeping a BMW for over 3 years/40K or so means you have to accept a big change in trade-in value. Over 100K miles even more - they become worth only what other "premium" cars from that model year sell/trade for.

Cases (might be a little extreme): my '01 330xi (everything but Premium, MSRP: $45K) was worth only around $6K tradein/$9K private at 145K/7 years. Our '91 525i ($37K new), totally drivable after a minor fender-bender at 198K/17 years, was totaled with $4500 damages.

Power seats and HK audio are probably more important than anything else: but they only make it easier to sell rather than bring dollars. And you will not get anything back on after-market mods.
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  #27  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:42 AM
everettpa1 everettpa1 is offline
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In my experience they mean nothing at all. It is the model type, driveline, condition, color, and mileage.

Its like a selling your house. Its based on comps and they adjust only for bathrooms, bedrooms, big stuff. They don't care whether you have granite or hardwood.

Same applies to cars. Having a DA package or a Lighting package won't mean a thing.

Those of us who like fully loaded cars have a big disdvantage at resale time.
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  #28  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:15 AM
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chasfh chasfh is offline
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Originally Posted by namelessman View Post
I would say all options have little resale values, so just pick what you need and be happy. Dealerships usually would suggest options that help them to sell CPO's on 3 to 4 year-old cars.
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Originally Posted by brkf View Post
Said it before, will say it again, "Buying a car with resale value in mind is like screwing to get to the post coitus cuddle."

Buy what you want.
These answer a question I didn't ask, but thanks anyway. I already made my choices on my car in late December.

I'm just interested in whether certain options make a difference in the resale of the vehicle, in the experience of members here.
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2013, 09:27 AM
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In my experience they mean nothing at all. It is the model type, driveline, condition, color, and mileage.
I agree.

In a nutshell, no option pays for itself on resale. In other words, in 3-5 years, you're not going to get $1,200 more for your car because it has a $1,200 option. If anyone tells you that you're going to get less on resale if your car doesn't have X (sunroof, leather, whatever), there could be some kernel of truth. Sure, with whatever option, you might give a little bit more (even that's debatable, though), but you're never going to get as much as the option cost you in the first place.

Bottom line, as others have said... get what you want and forget about resale.

A minor footnote to this whole discussion would be the collector car market... where options actually can make a difference. If you're talking about '50s Corvettes or something, then something like a rare color combination or even an automatic transmission could potentially add thousands of dollars to the value of the car. Just a footnote, of course, as we're not talking collector cars here.
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2013, 05:52 PM
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i love these types of threads

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  #31  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:16 PM
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i love these types of threads
Me too.

Something else to add. There are certain options available now that you may think you don't need but will turn out to be critically important in 5 to 10 years. For example, let's pretend I was interested in an E46 just as a weekend fun car. I would not even consider one that did not have Bluetooth integration. Yet back in 2003, Bluetooth wasn't that important and a lot of people passed on it. While they would never recoup the $500 the option cost, the lack of that option will definitely slam the door on perhaps 75% of the potential buyers at a given moment today.

If I had to pick the one option that today looks like it could be skipped but ultimately becomes a dealbreaker 7 years from now it would be either the Technology package or the Adaptive M Suspension. The large LCD screen and the all-important Enhanced USB and Bluetooth would seem to be a no-brainer for future iterations of smart phones. The idea of a his and hers suspension that flips a switch between comfort and sport is something else that I think will be standard on all cars in the future. Added up, that's $4000 worth of options that theoretically you would never see any return on. But the lack of those options may be a dealbreaker for a lot of customers in 2020.

BJ
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  #32  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:26 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Me too.

Something else to add. There are certain options available now that you may think you don't need but will turn out to be critically important in 5 to 10 years. For example, let's pretend I was interested in an E46 just as a weekend fun car. I would not even consider one that did not have Bluetooth integration. Yet back in 2003, Bluetooth wasn't that important and a lot of people passed on it. While they would never recoup the $500 the option cost, the lack of that option will definitely slam the door on perhaps 75% of the potential buyers at a given moment today.

If I had to pick the one option that today looks like it could be skipped but ultimately becomes a dealbreaker 7 years from now it would be either the Technology package or the Adaptive M Suspension. The large LCD screen and the all-important Enhanced USB and Bluetooth would seem to be a no-brainer for future iterations of smart phones. The idea of a his and hers suspension that flips a switch between comfort and sport is something else that I think will be standard on all cars in the future. Added up, that's $4000 worth of options that theoretically you would never see any return on. But the lack of those options may be a dealbreaker for a lot of customers in 2020.

BJ
In the case of Bluetooth there are some very good aftermarket options. I had a device called a Parrot. I had it professionally installed in my 1992 Lexus SC300 (a car that was built before Bluetooth was invented) it muted the radio and the phone sound came out of the speakers and was probably as good, if not better than many OEM systems.

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  #33  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
But the lack of those options may be a dealbreaker for a lot of customers in 2020.

BJ

Same can be said in 2013. People looking to buy 3-10 year old cars today often know what the feature list on cars where that were new at the time.

I sold two of my cars in the past 4 months, a 2012 M3 and 2006 Honda Accord. Both were loaded, both sold extraordinarily fast, and for nice prices. The Accord didn't have Bluetooth, but was loaded with Navigation (new 2012 maps disc), leather, heated seats etc. Buyers today can still appreciate a workable navigation (even if it's old, it still takes you to any standard address in the USA), along with leather and other creature comforts.

To BJ's point, if you look on the for sale sections of this and other forums, you will often see comments on cars that are fairly stripped, with comments such as "if it only had ZCP/heated seats/Nav/fill-in-the-blank, I would be all over this car". No one ever passes up a car with too many options. In fact, if you look at classic cars (30+ years old), the ones that are the most desirable from an enthusiast point of view are the ones with the most factory options, especially the rare or performance options. Not saying the F30 will be a sought-after car 30 years from now, but you can bet yer butt that options like DHP will get more attention than cars without.
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  #34  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:02 PM
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Same can be said in 2013. People looking to buy 3-10 year old cars today often know what the feature list on cars where that were new at the time.

I sold two of my cars in the past 4 months, a 2012 M3 and 2006 Honda Accord. Both were loaded, both sold extraordinarily fast, and for nice prices. The Accord didn't have Bluetooth, but was loaded with Navigation (new 2012 maps disc), leather, heated seats etc. Buyers today can still appreciate a workable navigation (even if it's old, it still takes you to any standard address in the USA), along with leather and other creature comforts.

To BJ's point, if you look on the for sale sections of this and other forums, you will often see comments on cars that are fairly stripped, with comments such as "if it only had ZCP/heated seats/Nav/fill-in-the-blank, I would be all over this car". No one ever passes up a car with too many options. In fact, if you look at classic cars (30+ years old), the ones that are the most desirable from an enthusiast point of view are the ones with the most factory options, especially the rare or performance options. Not saying the F30 will be a sought-after car 30 years from now, but you can bet yer butt that options like DHP will get more attention than cars without.
Right.

Now, to the OP's question of which options will make him the "most money" 10 years hence, the answer is a two-edged sword.

A $50,000 build with every option may be worth, say, $7,000 in 10 years.

A $40,000 build with very limited options may be worth, say, $4,000 in 10 years.

So the OP has to decide whether to "lose" $3,000 in future value for the expense of $10,000 in additional options now. If he gets a car that's, say, $45,000 and guesses incorrectly on options, could slide down to $3,000 in value and widen the gap further.

That's why leasing is so good. None of this drama comes into play at all.

BJ
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  #35  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Right.

Now, to the OP's question of which options will make him the "most money" 10 years hence, the answer is a two-edged sword.

A $50,000 build with every option may be worth, say, $7,000 in 10 years.

A $40,000 build with very limited options may be worth, say, $4,000 in 10 years.

So the OP has to decide whether to "lose" $3,000 in future value for the expense of $10,000 in additional options now. If he gets a car that's, say, $45,000 and guesses incorrectly on options, could slide down to $3,000 in value and widen the gap further.

That's why leasing is so good. None of this drama comes into play at all.

BJ
BJ, I agree that leasing makes sense. But so does buying for some. Let's not pretend that leasing has no drama.

Leasing puts other drama into play (mileage limits, damage that you get charged for, having to put new rubber on a car you won't be driving when you turn it in,pull forwards, etc).

Buy what you want to drive, option it the way that makes sense for you. Drive it like you want to. Pay for it how you want to. Dispose of it how you want to. None of what we do when we buy a BMW makes any rational financial sense anyway. It's all about what we want and what we can afford.
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  #36  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:48 AM
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Said it before, will say it again, "Buying a car with resale value in mind is like screwing to get to the post coitus cuddle."

Buy what you want.
This.

I would add though that some things might hurt resale value. I'm looking at used cars for my son, and we just don't want anything to do with those early nav systems. They're sort of like 8 track tape players after CDs came out.
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  #37  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
If I had to pick the one option that today looks like it could be skipped but ultimately becomes a dealbreaker 7 years from now it would be either the Technology package or the Adaptive M Suspension. The large LCD screen and the all-important Enhanced USB and Bluetooth would seem to be a no-brainer for future iterations of smart phones. The idea of a his and hers suspension that flips a switch between comfort and sport is something else that I think will be standard on all cars in the future. BJ
In general technologies move fast and furious, many people are already using smart phones as NAV, and USB and Bluetooth do morph constantly, so it won't be surprising in 7-10 years the current tech package would be obsolete. The ZDH would be nice, although it is unclear by the time for replacement(wear and tear) how much it would cost, so it can be blessing and liability at the same time on resale value.

On OP's point, my limited data point is that a 12+ year old E39 stripped versus fully loaded differ by $1000-1500 on edmunds and similar sites. The same is true on different engine sizes, e.g. a E39 I6 versus V8.
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  #38  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by everettpa1 View Post
In my experience they mean nothing at all. It is the model type, driveline, condition, color, and mileage.

Its like a selling your house. Its based on comps and they adjust only for bathrooms, bedrooms, big stuff. They don't care whether you have granite or hardwood.

Same applies to cars. Having a DA package or a Lighting package won't mean a thing.

Those of us who like fully loaded cars have a big disdvantage at resale time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Right.

Now, to the OP's question of which options will make him the "most money" 10 years hence, the answer is a two-edged sword.

A $50,000 build with every option may be worth, say, $7,000 in 10 years.

A $40,000 build with very limited options may be worth, say, $4,000 in 10 years.

BJ
When I have looked for used cars for each of my kids, I would ask them what they want from the car and what car they really like. Once they decided on a model, we would evaluate the options available and discuss what was a must have and eliminate vehicles without those options at the beginning. What I have found is it is not usually a single option that they can't live without but a package. For example, they want the sunroof and leather, therefore the Premium Package would be a must have or they want the Sport Wheels with the Sport trim, therefore the Sport Package is a must have, etc. However, a standalone option by itself, that would not break the deal. In other words, if the car has the color and the packages but not the sport shifter for example, they would still be very interested. I bought my F30 with that in mind, so I bought both what I wanted and what I considered the important packages, basically a Line, Premium and Tech, I believe that a Base model with few options could be a harder sell. Just my opinion.
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  #39  
Old 02-10-2013, 04:25 AM
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This thread helps settle one thing in my mind... I'm going to pamper my car to 1500 miles and then drive the everloving **** out of it.
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  #40  
Old 02-10-2013, 04:39 AM
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In general technologies move fast and furious, many people are already using smart phones as NAV, and USB and Bluetooth do morph constantly, so it won't be surprising in 7-10 years the current tech package would be obsolete.
...and that was the same argument we made in 2003 when we passed on Bluetooth in our cars and now just try to sell a car of that age without that feature in 2013.

Of course technology will move forward, but to give yourself the best chance at a successful sale in 2023 having Enhanced Bluetooth + USB is the best bet as it's likely that whatever new tech exists 10 years hence will have some backwards compatibility for just that purpose, but without the enhanced protocols of 2013 there won't be a chance for forward integration in 2023.

Besides, most people buying 10 year old used cars don't have any money anyway, so they're probably using old technology. Most 2003 E46 owners are using flip phones, don't want any part of them-there expensive smart phones.

BJ
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  #41  
Old 02-10-2013, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
When I have looked for used cars for each of my kids, I would ask them what they want from the car and what car they really like. Once they decided on a model, we would evaluate the options available and discuss what was a must have and eliminate vehicles without those options at the beginning. What I have found is it is not usually a single option that they can't live without but a package. For example, they want the sunroof and leather, therefore the Premium Package would be a must have or they want the Sport Wheels with the Sport trim, therefore the Sport Package is a must have, etc. However, a standalone option by itself, that would not break the deal. In other words, if the car has the color and the packages but not the sport shifter for example, they would still be very interested. I bought my F30 with that in mind, so I bought both what I wanted and what I considered the important packages, basically a Line, Premium and Tech, I believe that a Base model with few options could be a harder sell. Just my opinion.
That's true. When I was a poor kid looking at 10 year old cars I'd do a ton of research, know the precise configuration I wanted, and then go on the hunt for it.

Anyway, someone buying a $50,000 German luxury car shouldn't be concerned about the +/- $2,000 that's on the table here anyway. Over 10 years, that's $13 a month in risk/reward spending, so just build the F30 the way you want it, don't care about it's future saleability, and move on.

BJ
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  #42  
Old 02-10-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
...and that was the same argument we made in 2003 when we passed on Bluetooth in our cars and now just try to sell a car of that age without that feature in 2013.
....
Besides, most people buying 10 year old used cars don't have any money anyway, so they're probably using old technology. Most 2003 E46 owners are using flip phones, don't want any part of them-there expensive smart phones.

BJ
I believe you somewhat addressed your own concern. It is doubtful that you will have problem selling your 2003 car without Bluetooth provided it is well maintained and have no(or few) pending out-of-pockets expenses. People looking for a 10+ year old are mainly after a DD, and Bluetooth is nice-to-have but not mandatory. Be reasonable on the price and you can reclaim garage space in a blink.
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  #43  
Old 02-10-2013, 09:40 AM
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I think built in navigation is becoming obsolete. My iphone gives me directions through the bluetooth. I am sure andorids do the same. I would like a system that connected to the phone and would use idrive to show the map or anything else from the phone. In 5 years or so, i am hoping that's were the technology will be, or maybe even better. So as far as resale value, navigation might not have the best chance
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  #44  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
To BJ's point, if you look on the for sale sections of this and other forums, you will often see comments on cars that are fairly stripped, with comments such as "if it only had ZCP/heated seats/Nav/fill-in-the-blank, I would be all over this car". No one ever passes up a car with too many options. In fact, if you look at classic cars (30+ years old), the ones that are the most desirable from an enthusiast point of view are the ones with the most factory options, especially the rare or performance options. Not saying the F30 will be a sought-after car 30 years from now, but you can bet yer butt that options like DHP will get more attention than cars without.
But in general, you will lose huge amounts on the options.

If I were to guess, I would say the typical buyer expects a sunroof, which is the only option I would consider adding reluctantly to make resale easier.
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  #45  
Old 02-12-2013, 09:53 AM
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This thread helps settle one thing in my mind... I'm going to pamper my car to 1500 miles and then drive the everloving **** out of it.
Hahahaha, yes! No sense in pampering the car for the next owner.
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  #46  
Old 02-12-2013, 07:48 PM
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I think built in navigation is becoming obsolete. My iphone gives me directions through the bluetooth. I am sure andorids do the same. I would like a system that connected to the phone and would use idrive to show the map or anything else from the phone. In 5 years or so, i am hoping that's were the technology will be, or maybe even better. So as far as resale value, navigation might not have the best chance
Built in navigation is not becoming obsolete. It's getting better.

Five years ago there was a huge gap between what a $150 Garmin Nuvi could do and what a $2000 BMW iDrive nav could do. But time goes by and Nuvi has stalled on innovation and the car manufacturers have caught up.

Smart phone navigation is really good, not fully featured enough, but decent and 'free' doesn't suck. But they are stuck on the small screen and that's their downfall. If down the road a company like BMW partners with Google or Apple to transmit their small screen apps for the big screen, different story, but right now the fully-integrated wide-screen nav is the best approach.

BJ
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  #47  
Old 02-13-2013, 08:55 AM
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If down the road a company like BMW partners with Google or Apple to transmit their small screen apps for the big screen, different story, but right now the fully-integrated wide-screen nav is the best approach.
They're just an HDMI port away from that.
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  #48  
Old 02-13-2013, 08:58 AM
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There is something special about having that big screen, the easy user interface while driving, and the heads up display that my iPhone's nav just can't come close to replicating. I bought the tech package on my car and have absolutely no regrets.
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  #49  
Old 02-13-2013, 09:00 AM
PK2348 PK2348 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Built in navigation is not becoming obsolete. It's getting better.

Five years ago there was a huge gap between what a $150 Garmin Nuvi could do and what a $2000 BMW iDrive nav could do. But time goes by and Nuvi has stalled on innovation and the car manufacturers have caught up.

Smart phone navigation is really good, not fully featured enough, but decent and 'free' doesn't suck. But they are stuck on the small screen and that's their downfall. If down the road a company like BMW partners with Google or Apple to transmit their small screen apps for the big screen, different story, but right now the fully-integrated wide-screen nav is the best approach.

BJ
Most likely such integration will be started by the Japanese/Korean companies, to make their cars more attractive to buyers. Then the german brands will have to follow. Right now they are making out like bandits because you bought a 2k navi system to perform a function that can be done by a smart phone for free. Is a slightly bigger screen really makes a 2k difference? Maybe, that is a personal choice.
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PK2348 View Post
Most likely such integration will be started by the Japanese/Korean companies, to make their cars more attractive to buyers. Then the german brands will have to follow. Right now they are making out like bandits because you bought a 2k navi system to perform a function that can be done by a smart phone for free. Is a slightly bigger screen really makes a 2k difference? Maybe, that is a personal choice.
Yes, because a free smartphone app works with the HUD, always gets a signal/recalculates where there is no cell coverage, etc.

Is fiddling with a 4" screen in the cupholder while you rear-end a car worth saving the $2K?
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