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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:50 PM
softdiamond softdiamond is offline
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1990 e34 535i sudden coolant system issue

HI all I need some serious help here:

I am new to this thread, so I am not sure if anyone has ever experienced this issue I have with my 535i. This is how it all began. Car worked fine. went o UTAH-temp 10 degree and snowing. Never really drove car there. Came back to Calif after 30 days as soon as I got to 210 Frwy in Calif the car started to shake.,the battery light came on first, then the emerg brake light and then the coolant light. I pulled over immediately before the gauge went into the red, turned the car off car. I never let the car over heated. It was night. Had it towed. Next morning, noticed the fan clutch and blade had broken off. It also scrapped and dented the radiator fins.
We replaced the watepump, thermostate,belts, fan clutch and fan blade...Now the car is wanting to overheat after running for about 5 block. When we check the coolant level from cold, it appears to be none in the resevoir, There is no colored exhaust smoke at all...do you think the radiator fins that were damaged are keeping the radiator from working properly...There are not any visible signs of leaking. So baffled because the car never over heated to cause any kind of head gasket problem, or could I be wrong. or could it be the damaged radiator ?

Took car to an auto shop which does not specialize in BMW could not figure out why will not cool either.
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2013, 05:57 PM
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BMWFatherFigure BMWFatherFigure is offline
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You could have folded some tubes shut. Also low radiator flow rate would not show in low air temps. Suggest you pull the rad and get it checked for blockage and damage. When you refill use gen coolant and bleed, bleed, bleed!
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2013, 06:56 PM
softdiamond softdiamond is offline
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Hi
BMWFatherFigure

Thanks for the post response...Could you see the pic of the radiator that I posted...It does appear to me that many of the fins were smashed....
Is this why we don't see any leack, so where is all the coolant going after it gets cold.

It makes much sense to me...I am .Just a girl who love the bimmers.
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:15 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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I suspect it is an issue of still having trapped air. However, it would probably be a good idea to go ahead and replace the radiator which will be a near complete coolant system overhaul. And as FF said, make sure it is bleed correctly and completely.
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  #5  
Old 01-27-2013, 07:23 PM
softdiamond softdiamond is offline
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Ok, so much.....can you give advice on proper way to bleed... I will watch the guys and make sure they do it right

the first guy opened the bleeder screw to release as much bubbles, and then only removed radiator cap to add more water.
The next day...morning, we added more water with only allowing the radiator cap to remain off to let all the air bubbles flow out. This appeared to work but after about 30 minutes, back to the same thing.
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2013, 08:00 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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One of the important aspects of getting it bled properly is to make sure that the heat is turned to full hot with the blower on high. This ensures that the heater conrtol valves are open and allows fluid to flow through the heather core and expel any trapped air.

You need to purchase the Bentley manual or download a searchable version here. Proper coolant system bleeding is well detailed.

Hope this helps.
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1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
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  #7  
Old 01-27-2013, 10:44 PM
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there is a possibility that the destroyed fan blade ruined the water pump as it would be off balance. if still unsucessfull bleeding, grab hold of the fan clutch and try and wiggle it up down side to side and see if there is any play in it, there should be NONE should be tight and just be able to spin, no lateral movement.
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  #8  
Old 01-27-2013, 11:00 PM
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BMWFatherFigure BMWFatherFigure is offline
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Fan clutch new in OP. I hope that is new new and not we've got one down the back type new.
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  #9  
Old 01-28-2013, 01:36 PM
simplired4u simplired4u is offline
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Yes! Yes!...all new part
Fan blade
Fan Cluch
water pump
thermostate
belts
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  #10  
Old 01-28-2013, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplired4u View Post
Yes! Yes!...all new part
Fan blade
Fan Cluch
water pump
thermostate
belts
then it just leaves the rad and a proper bleed. Please bear in mind that while the rad is strong, the fan and clutch do have a considerable weight and can be spinning at a high speed. One of those bad boys letting go and wreaking havoc on an entirely defenseless radiator has serious potential to induce problems.

OP, do you know if the old WP impeller was made of plastic or metal? and was it in tact when removed?
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  #11  
Old 01-28-2013, 09:17 PM
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Here's hoping that impeller debris was not left in the water jacket. A good bleed and new rad should fix it all.
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:49 AM
softdiamond softdiamond is offline
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Thanks, All for your responses. It was the radiator after all.

A lesson learned in all this. Once you have a competent repair garage, stick with them, because, Everyone proclaiming to know these cars, Hmmm! not so, here locally in southern Cal.

But now my radiator is fixed, my guy notice the 6th cyinder is missing...so he is going to fix that, I do hope it is not so costly...was running smooth I thought. But I guess it has a miss.

Wow!... He is honest and I have known him for 30ish yrs.....

Last edited by softdiamond; 02-06-2013 at 11:51 AM. Reason: grammer
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
then it just leaves the rad and a proper bleed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by softdiamond View Post
Thanks, All for your responses. It was the radiator after all.


Glad it's fixed OP. We can help you go to your mech with some knowledge and save him some work. Glad its all figured out.

Did you check to see what the WP was made of? Plastic or Metal?
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  #14  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:51 PM
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Love a thread with a happy end. Makes me wanna cry.....
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  #15  
Old 02-06-2013, 06:42 PM
samsonnyc samsonnyc is offline
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Composite impellers are more my style for the water pump. Lighter than metal and not as brittle as plastic. Same price too.
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  #16  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:12 AM
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Composite impellers are more my style for the water pump. Lighter than metal and not as brittle as plastic. Same price too.


oooooof. not really about "style". or the weight. "composite" is the "plastic" we're talking about. everybody replaces with metal for all the obvious reason. WPs die on these cars all the time, i've personally been through 5. Same price, much higher quality.
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  #17  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:30 AM
samsonnyc samsonnyc is offline
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oooooof. not really about "style". or the weight. "composite" is the "plastic" we're talking about. everybody replaces with metal for all the obvious reason. WPs die on these cars all the time, i've personally been through 5. Same price, much higher quality.

No composite is not plastic. I have seen all three on the same table, they are not the same. Plastic is **** in pureness although it is the lightest. Rap on the composite impeller with a metal blade, it sounds like metal but a different note than the cast iron one. Is metal to the touch. It rusts more slowly if at all, is lighter so less load on the pulley and bearings, and is not brittle. Probably an alloy, which must be why they call it composite.

BMW makes a composite impeller for the M50. Its on Turner's website. Twice the price of normal pumps but better than buying 5 and you sleep much better.

Last edited by samsonnyc; 02-07-2013 at 07:31 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-07-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonnyc View Post
No composite is not plastic. I have seen all three on the same table, they are not the same. Plastic is **** in pureness although it is the lightest. Rap on the composite impeller with a metal blade, it sounds like metal but a different note than the cast iron one. Is metal to the touch. It rusts more slowly if at all, is lighter so less load on the pulley and bearings, and is not brittle. Probably an alloy, which must be why they call it composite.

BMW makes a composite impeller for the M50. Its on Turner's website. Twice the price of normal pumps but better than buying 5 and you sleep much better.
I was not the one who had it replaced or replaced myself the first 4. car also has $250K miles and comuted from NY to D.C. every week for two years, a WP is bound to go. When I finally did it, It got metal.



It's also prettier
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:26 AM
samsonnyc samsonnyc is offline
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Composite metal would have been the far better choice. I believe it is less prone to rust. My old metal one had loads of that.

For all you know, what you have is the composite alloy, just a different colour. Mine was black. The cast iron one I saw was iron coloured. Yours is gold. Is it just painted ?

The only lifetime pump out there is the Stuart pump. I expect to replace my composite alloy eventually. Will pull it and look every year though, just to be anal. O rings are cheaper than pumps.
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:33 AM
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all it said was metal. made no mention of composit. i did that a year and a half ago. It couldve been painted but i very highly doubt it

Also, a possibility that M50s have different options than M30s?
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  #21  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:55 AM
samsonnyc samsonnyc is offline
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The one you pictured looks like this :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-E34-5-SE...item19ca53ab0b

The one I finally bought looks like this :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-water-pu...580259&vxp=mtr


I've compared both when new. The bmw composite one is definitely lighter to turn than the steel or cast iron (that was the old one on my engine). Definitely metallic. If you ever pull your pump out to inspect and notice it is lightly coated with rust everywhere, it is steel. They don't use top grade steel for pumps. Heavily coated with rust would be cast iron.

I will pull my pump soon if I have to fix my valves and head, and post a picture. It will very interesting to see if the bmw logo for composite metal is the kiss of death for rust.

Last edited by samsonnyc; 02-07-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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  #22  
Old 02-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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for $hits and giggles, i google'd the P/N of the second "composite" one (11517527799) and came up with this:

RM European WP Clearly looks like mine and your first link.

Also says "This brand has a metal impeller."
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Last edited by Monsignor; 02-07-2013 at 09:00 AM.
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  #23  
Old 02-07-2013, 09:57 AM
samsonnyc samsonnyc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
for $hits and giggles, i google'd the P/N of the second "composite" one (11517527799) and came up with this:

RM European WP Clearly looks like mine and your first link.

Also says "This brand has a metal impeller."
It looks flimsier than yours actually. Yours looks like the cast iron type and the RM one seems to be steel. Maybe yours is a variant, nobody would paint iron gold, or maybe I'm wrong there.

Anyway, here's what I'm talking about :

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-62...ginal-bmw.aspx

" The composite is stronger and lighter than the less-expensive metal impeller version. And it does not suffer from the problems of the early plastic design. "

I found later that the same composite pumps are sold by other brands at nearly half the price.

If they don't say composite, its not composite. Metal is not composite in the water pumpist's dictionary.

Composite must be some metal alloy. I was even told once that composite is actually fibreglass ! That aint' it, it sounded like metal not plastic when rapped.
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  #24  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:41 AM
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that turner link is the exact answer to this whole discussion. Excellent info, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I stand corrected; any day I learn something new is a good day. I'll probably swap out the metal one for a compostie one for good measure sometime soon. I always thought metal was the pinnacle, didnt even know about composite.

Theres no BMW source I trust more than Turner...
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  #25  
Old 02-07-2013, 02:23 PM
samsonnyc samsonnyc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsignor View Post
that turner link is the exact answer to this whole discussion. Excellent info, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I stand corrected; any day I learn something new is a good day. I'll probably swap out the metal one for a compostie one for good measure sometime soon. I always thought metal was the pinnacle, didnt even know about composite.

Theres no BMW source I trust more than Turner...
You will love the composite pump. Just feels cool turning it around. Do us a favour if you're doing this soon ? Put a multimeter on it and test it for continuity. Lets confirm that its made of metal and not fiberglass. Sorry if this is a stupid idea.

Last edited by _Ethrty-Andy_; 02-07-2013 at 08:25 PM.
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