535 vs 335

Hi all,

New member here looking to make the jump from my 2004 Accord.

I live in the city, and while I don't plan on parking my new BMW on the street often, it's going to have to happen every now and then. That said, I like the trunk space and back seat room I currently have.

I have a hard time comparing things, but basically I'd like to maintain the level of trunk space/rear seat space and not have a larger car to park.

2004 Accord Dimensions are:
Length 189.5
Width 71.5
Wheel base 107.9

How do the 535 and 335 compare? The 535 felt big when I test drove it, but I don't want to go too small.

Thoughts?

Crossposting in F30 and F10 threads

Get the upcoming 3 series wagon.

Originally Posted by gnuf

Hi all,

New member here looking to make the jump from my 2004 Accord.

I live in the city, and while I don't plan on parking my new BMW on the street often, it's going to have to happen every now and then. That said, I like the trunk space and back seat room I currently have.

I have a hard time comparing things, but basically I'd like to maintain the level of trunk space/rear seat space and not have a larger car to park.

2004 Accord Dimensions are:
Length 189.5
Width 71.5
Wheel base 107.9

How do the 535 and 335 compare? The 535 felt big when I test drove it, but I don't want to go too small.

Thoughts?

Crossposting in F30 and F10 threads

I have an F30 335, and a 2003 Accord LX. I think the Accord has more trunk space (not by much but noticeable).

When it comes to leg room (I know you didn't ask): The rear of the Honda is much more spacious IMO.

I have an F30... my two previous cars were a 2006 Accord sedan and E92 M3.

The F30 is very similar size to the 7th gen Accord. Interior seems almost the same to me. The F30 is about 9inches shorter overall length, but I think it's just due to shorter overhangs.

The F10 is bigger all around, and feels that way when driving it. And the rear seat room does not feel substantially bigger than the F30, IMO.

The oldest Accord I could find comparison numbers for is the 2008 model.



I had an '03 Accord. Sure the back seat folded down to supposedly expand trunk space when needed, but there was so much sheet metal behind it, with such a small opening cut out, that it was useless for hauling many things. I think the new 3er does a better job with that. The new 5er is a luxurious barge. The 3er is a lot more nimble, a lot more fun to drive.

Better numbers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_A...nth_generation)

Wheelbase Sedan: 107.9 in (2,741 mm)
Coupe: 105.1 in (2,670 mm)
Length 2003–05 Sedan: 189.5 in (4,813 mm)
2003–05 Coupe: 187.6 in (4,765 mm)
2006–07 Sedan: 191.1 in (4,854 mm)
2006–07 Coupe: 187.8 in (4,770 mm)
Width 2003–05 Sedan: 71.5 in (1,816 mm)
2006–07 Sedan: 71.6 in (1,819 mm)
2003–07 Coupe: 71.3 in (1,811 mm)
2005 Hybrid: 71.4 in (1,814 mm)
2006-07 Hybrid: 71.7 in (1,821 mm)
Height 2003–05 Sedan: 57.1 in (1,450 mm)
2006–07 Sedan: 57.2 in (1,453 mm)
2006–07 V6 Sedan: 57.3 in (1,455 mm)
2003–07 Coupe: 55.7 in (1,415 mm)
2006–07 V6 Coupe: 55.8 in (1,417 mm)
2005 Hybrid: 57.2 in (1,453 mm)
Curb weight 2003 Sedan: 3,195 lb (1,449 kg)

Just went for a test drive with a friend who was considering leasing a 535i. Besides the fact that the dealer was completely inept and treated us like we were 16 just learning how to drive, the car was a let down. My friend summed it felt like her Mother's Buick and I could not disagree with her. I normally advocate for BMW but in this case I could not. We did not want to spend any more time with the sales guy so we did not even drive the 3 series, but the 535i test drive was a total disapointment.

Some specs here:
Accord length: 189 inches
F30 3 series: 182 inches
F10 5 series: 193 inches

Really it's just depends if you want a smaller sportier car or a bigger more luxurious car.

Originally Posted by FredoinSF

Just went for a test drive with a friend who was considering leasing a 535i. Besides the fact that the dealer was completely inept and treated us like we were 16 just learning how to drive, the car was a let down. My friend summed it felt like her Mother's Buick and I could not disagree with her. I normally advocate for BMW but in this case I could not. We did not want to spend any more time with the sales guy so we did not even drive the 3 series, but the 535i test drive was a total disapointment.

The 5 is a very nice car. It's big, heavy, and luxurious. Sporty, not so much anymore. Without the sport suspension, it is the German version of a Buick. It weighs as much as the wife's Toyota minivan (2006).

It looks like the 3er has a "win" for driver and front passenger space!

Sit in both of them. Look at the trunk space. The F30 and the E90 have much better trunk space than you would think. I always liked the 3 series before the E90 came out, but I also thought they were a little too small and never got one because of that.

The 535 is really nice. I love it, but I got 2 kids going to college, so it's hard for me to cost justify it. Plus, like others have said, there is no doubt the 3 is a better driver enthusiast car than the 5. Also, when you sit in the front and back seats, it's really hard to notice any significant difference in space. In the old days, when you sat in an E36 or an E46, there was no doubt you were in a tiny car.

Thanks for all the info!

Really appreciate it!

I'll just post up what I did on the the F10 board post, lol.:

I absolutely loved the F30 328i when I drove it. Thought it felt like the best "Small Sport Sedan" I've ever driven.

IMO the relationship between the F10 and F30 is great, at least if you're someone who is okay with BMW's move to more luxurious endeavors. The 3 has refined up a bit, but is noticeable less "occasional", less elegant and sophisticated, less curvaceous as the 5. It's a little more angular, squared, and has a more fussy "immature" nose, which is appropriate for it in relation to the 5.

The interior of the 3 is nice, but when you go from it into a 5, you instantly feel the extra airiness, the much more expensive, "sense of occasion" atmosphere, the plusher experience, etc. Again, appropriate between the two (purist buyers of each might not want the effects of the siblings in their cars).

The F30 feels very lively to me, very fun, though the F10 does as well. I think if you want pure sport with enough luxury to meet ends meet, the F30 is the car for you. If you want an ultimately refined Luxury Car with enough sport to make ends meet, the F10 will do the trick better. Of course, space is another objective factor.

IMO BMW has nailed it with the F30 and F10. And IMO the F10's move to more luxury made more sense once the F30 came out.

You should use kbb compare car feature. It lists all the sizes for the trunk, leg room, head room, etc.

Or may be 335 GT. Should have ample space for normal family needs.

K-A's sentiments about the 3 vs 5 express many of my observations. I was inclined to be a 5 buyer at first, coming from a MBZ 300E, and used to mid size lux 6 banger. But when I hit the dealership and saw the F30s in person I said WTF! Began test driving 535s and fell in love with roomy cabin but drove 328 to compare. Couldn't fathom a 4 banger performing like that, and I owned a 16V 1984 MBZ 190E manual.

The F30 cabin looks like a cut and paste designed by committee job compared the the cabin of the F10 which appears finely crafted, fitted, and engineered, IMO. But I was sold on 4 cylinder and so apparently was BMW. They thought enough of it to power the 528i.

Long story short, I slowly shifted to favoring the 3 once I discovered the M Sport package available with the options I wanted. Bottom like is I'd be pleased to drive either.

Originally Posted by Pappy Pipes

The F30 cabin looks like a cut and paste designed by committee job compared the the cabin of the F10 which appears finely crafted, fitted, and engineered, IMO.

I agree.

But I just couldn't cost justify the 5 over the 3. The 3 is perfect for me. Plus, I like the sportiness of the 3 anyway.

It's not like I'm suffering or anything...

Originally Posted by krash

I agree.

But I just couldn't cost justify the 5 over the 3. The 3 is perfect for me. Plus, I like the sportiness of the 3 anyway.

It's not like I'm suffering or anything...

I'm with you! BMW offers so many trims, packages, and options -- interior, exterior, and engine -- that it's easy to create the configuration of your dreams.

What I don't get is leatherette, and I dig vegan.

Originally Posted by Pappy Pipes

I'm with you! BMW offers so many trims, packages, and options -- interior, exterior, and engine -- that it's easy to create the configuration of your dreams.
{snip} :

Except if you're looking for a 3 pedal version of a 328i xdrive or upcoming 328d xdrive. As one of the old crusties that's had 10 BMW's with a stick shift, I'm disapointed at the proliferation of the auto only models. Starting to seriously look at Audi for my next car

Originally Posted by FredoinSF

Except if you're looking for a 3 pedal version of a 328i xdrive or upcoming 328d xdrive. As one of the old crusties that's had 10 BMW's with a stick shift, I'm disapointed at the proliferation of the auto only models. Starting to seriously look at Audi for my next car

What makes you think Audi is so much better at offering manuals compared to BMW? It's industry wide at this point, the killing off of the manual.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

What makes you think Audi is so much better at offering manuals compared to BMW? It's industry wide at this point, the killing off of the manual.

Someone told me that Ferraris and Lamborghinis don't have a 3rd pedal clutch anymore. I am not really sure, but if true, that certainly validates your point.

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

What makes you think Audi is so much better at offering manuals compared to BMW? It's industry wide at this point, the killing off of the manual.

You can get an A4 Quattro (direct competitor to the 328i xdrive) with a manual. Seems like the S4 manual is also readily available on dealer lots. Been trying to test drive a 335i in either RWD or xdrive for a couple fo weeks and no dealers in either Reno or SF / East Bay have any in stock.
While I would probably lean towards a 335, I would like to at least drive one with a stick before I decide to give BMW 60 grand after tax and registatration. Given recent experience with BMW clutch delay valves and a weak clutch in a MINI Countryman, I'm not going to order without a nice test drive.
If I'm being rail roaded into an automatic, alternatives to BMW open up even further.

Originally Posted by krash

Someone told me that Ferraris and Lamborghinis don't have a 3rd pedal clutch anymore. I am not really sure, but if true, that certainly validates your point.

It is true. Very few high end sports cars (Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, etc.) offer MTs.

CA

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

What makes you think Audi is so much better at offering manuals compared to BMW? It's industry wide at this point, the killing off of the manual.

Back in the late 70s & 80s everyone thought the demise of the manual trans was around the corner because of environmental regulation of exhaust. When you shift gears, the momentary let off the throttle as you change gears would create a "puff" that kept some cars from passing emissions! Many cars were available with sticks but not in California because of the stringent regulations. At that time people talked about the death of the stick shift!

Back in 1987, 29% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. were manual transmission, but by 2010 manuals comprised just under 4%. However, 7% of new cars sold were manuals in 2012! From the news I heard the other day that I found most interesting was of teen drivers, the ones who drove sticks were safer! I guess the free hand was used for something other than texting.

From article: http://business.time.com/2012/08/02/...#ixzz2KSjH08xR

Originally Posted by FredoinSF

You can get an A4 Quattro (direct competitor to the 328i xdrive) with a manual. Seems like the S4 manual is also readily available on dealer lots. Been trying to test drive a 335i in either RWD or xdrive for a couple fo weeks and no dealers in either Reno or SF / East Bay have any in stock.
While I would probably lean towards a 335, I would like to at least drive one with a stick before I decide to give BMW 60 grand after tax and registatration. Given recent experience with BMW clutch delay valves and a weak clutch in a MINI Countryman, I'm not going to order without a nice test drive.
If I'm being rail roaded into an automatic, alternatives to BMW open up even further.

That does suck the 328 is not offered in a manual with X-drive, trust me I know. But the 335x is and pretty much every iteration of M Car including the big M5. Audi will not let you have a manual in anything bigger than the A/S/4/5.

So while it sucks about the 328, if you go model by model, you will find that Audi does not offer more manuals.

My dealer had a manual to test drive, hell it was there loaner as they keep one for a loaner for the guys like me. It's regional and depends on your dealer.

Originally Posted by kpgray

Back in the late 70s & 80s everyone thought the demise of the manual trans was around the corner because of environmental regulation of exhaust. When you shift gears, the momentary let off the throttle as you change gears would create a "puff" that kept some cars from passing emissions! Many cars were available with sticks but not in California because of the stringent regulations. At that time people talked about the death of the stick shift!

Back in 1987, 29% of new vehicles sold in the U.S. were manual transmission, but by 2010 manuals comprised just under 4%. However, 7% of new cars sold were manuals in 2012! From the news I heard the other day that I found most interesting was of teen drivers, the ones who drove sticks were safer! I guess the free hand was used for something other than texting.

From article: http://business.time.com/2012/08/02/...#ixzz2KSjH08xR

One thing that is different now, the manual has more competition. The clutchless manuals, cvts and mult-gear(7-8-9spd)automatics all provide a much better case for themselves compared to the 3spd and 4spd automatics of the 70's and 80's.

It used to be the manual had better fuel economy and often a second faster in 0-60. Today, its almost the opposite. The DCT cars show better acceleration and often better fuel economy. You also got a decent savings by buying the manual, now it's a "no cost option"

But I am a bit old in my thinking. I want 3 pedals even though I know it's compromised. If the 335 were auto only and the same price as a 328 manual, I would STILL take the 328. Quite often I look right past a car if it is not offered in a manual, no matter how compelling.

Now your figures of 2010 vs 2012 manuals going up, I think that might have something to do with the small car. There are more small cars being offered for sale and those cars and buyers are more typical to select a manual. Just look at the Fiat 500. Its crazy how many are on the local lots in stock with a manual.